drifter_d

yeah, loube. inquiring rotorheads want to know!

rotarygod

I'd really almost have to show you but it isn't nearly as complicated as it sounds. I actually do fuel and timing adjustments completely independent of each other and then go back after both are pretty nice and do some fine tuning. I'll let you know exactly how I personally do tuning on a nonturbo rotary. Others may do it differently and that is fine. There is more than one way to do it.

This applies to naturally aspirated cars. First things first, remember that while there are hundred of points to worry about, the car is only ever at 1 point at any particular time. Actually it can be between them but you get the idea that you don't treat tuning as an all or nothing affair. You work your way across. It's like roofing a house. One shingle at a time.

I start out with a fixed timing "map" that I just enter in as a good starting point. It isn't fine tuned but runs pretty good. I like to go to a max advance of 25 degrees. I start the engine at 0 degrees at idle and then as rpm's rise slowly taper the timing advance until it hits 25 degrees by about 4000 rpm. I'll go back and change this later. I do this all the way across the board including high and low load ranges. It isn't optimal but works just fine. From there I adjust fuel. Without a wideband of dyno ir really is seat of the pants. While not impossible to do, it isn't the best way. You can still get a decent base map though. Since my ecu shows me exactly what load and rpm point I am at on the 3D map at all times, I can just click on that area and make real time adjustments to where the engine is running at now. At first I may have to keep modulating the throttle until I can get the correct load points acceptable enough to keep the car idling. Then increase the rpm's. At the next rpm/load point adjust all the way down and all the way up to the extremes on both ends where the car runs bad. Set it in the middle and move on. When you aren't moving, the loads stay low so this technique is only applicable to lower load points on the map.

At higher load points you will need to be doing runs and actually driving the car. The same process is the same. If the car runs bad, note where it is on the map and make adjustments there to see how it changes. Keep making runs in the same area through the same rpm range which will be narrow at first and figure out the extremes. Again adjust to the middle. You slowly get a wider and wider range of adjustments. Now to make things easier just to get it running, look at the map and adjust the average spots that are in between all of the ones you did get to adjust. By doing this, you will get a drivable map. From there you can start tweaking other things such as rpm enrichment, etc. This works for me.

With a wideband I just tune each spot to about 12.5:1 or so across the board and then adjust from there. On a dyno you can do this in conjunction with seeing how your change had an effect on power. After I get a certain a/f ratio then I go back and advance or retard the timing all the way across the board and do a run. If it cnages bad, I undo it. If there is an improvement I use it. Then you repeat this step until you get it right. Sometimes you will find that your change worked better in one spot but worse in another. Use only the better spot's settings. Then go back and fine tune fuel again.

This may sound really difficult but it's actually not that bad. There is no need to adjust timing and fule at the exact same time. If you were using only an exhaust temperature sensor to tune the car, different things effect the exhaust temps so you might get a little confused if you try it like that. The best thing to do is to set it up in a very broad general way that you know will run dencently and then make 1 change at a time and compare results. If you do 2 things at once and get a gain, you don't know if you gained on both accounts or if 1 lost and 1 gained but the gain offset the loss of the other change. ONe thing at a time. It's easy.

Forced induction is a little different because you can really hurt something if you mess up. Much of it is done the same way but I may start out with a lower total advance, lower boost and then work my way up, and a richer mixture. You just have to be more careful.

I didn't even get into timing split but that isn't that bad. It's the same technique. Hopefully this didn't turn your brain into jelly and actually helped answer your question.

I'm not sure how Mazsport does it but this way works well for me.

loube

I have driven it for about 20 miles but I enjoyed every foot. . I will have a full report tomorrow i will drive it for work all day. It idles better, accelerates better, shifts better, accelerates better, corners better, and accelerates better.

HardHitter

So the one question I need to ask is, does the car accelerate better?

XeRo

i don't think he mentioned that anywhere?

RXhusker

Hey -- I'm next on the list :D

Is it on the way yet Scott? :D Not that I am anxious or near the point of begging or anything :o

drifter_d

yeah, and i'm right after rxhusker!!!

davefzr

Yes it helped a lot RG. Thank you for the explination. I had a CZ in my car at one point and loved to go through the tuning process but unfortunately had to take it out of my car because the idle was all messed up. It was really rough and I didnt understand why. I never changed any of the values for this and thought that the CZ unit was designed to only change the A/F in open loop anyway. Thats why it confused me that my idle was so bad..

I really did enjoy the process and will probably get one of these units and tune my car with it. I am just waiting to hear some more good feedback about it. Looks like Loube is happy. All that he can say is that the acceleration is amazing..

Cant wait to hear the full report..

davefzr

Whose silver 8 was that in the video? Was that Scud's Loubes or someone elses?

MazsportScott

That was RX-Steven's car which he bought as a Date/ Mazsport Development platform! Just FYI, his "Work car" is a beautiful 79 RX-7. Custom HRE's, Dual webbers, late model trans, 4.3 gears,t2 brakes, streetported 13b. 2360lb with 226rwhp! "Old Dragger" You would love this ride! Thank Steve for providing a platform for the R&D the RX-8 community needs! Scott

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

^^ Ditto dave's comments RG - thanks. I really do think that we need to spend more time posting information from your brain

MazsportScott

The tuning is very straight-foward. Our plan is to release a DVD with an overview of tuning so the end user will have an understanding of AIR,FUEL,SPARK and how to they relate to one another. Scott

davefzr

I dont think I have ever seen RX-Steven post anything.. When I did a search for his name no hits were found... I would love to hear his comments about the car.

jird20

I am one of the many RX8 owners who is willing to know how a NA renesis is improved in power and mileage with the use of the X-interceptor.

Nevertheless I guess we will not have any info about this before mid September.

I hope to be wrong but...

jird20

Broker73

thx everyone for your feedback, but when I had the CZ, never once did it throw a CEL when the car pinged.....around the 6-7k range the car felt like it hit the brakes and would stutter.....when Maurice looked at the graphs afterwards it looked like my car dumped fuel when it got fussy around that range....I assume by what he said this is "pinging".......and no CEL with that.....the car simply did not like the unit no matter how much tuning we did.......so if I am reading all this right I guess I need tuning equiptment? Is this the cable that plugs into the car under the dash and gives you all the nice readouts on the laptop? I was hoping this would be just a "plug and play", but I guess time will tell. I am sure there will be a strong demand for NA cars if this new unit can prove to be much more reliable and driveable compared to the CZ.

Broker73

My car also had bad idle and felt like it was towing a trailer under 5k?? We didn't even change the maps for thoses ranges so it was a bit confusing?? I hope the new unit will not have the same problems. By the sounds of it the concept is much more advanced, and looks promising !

loube

Hello everyone i have a partial report

My car is a Green Mica 8 with the Sport package only. I have the following mods:

Greddy RX8 turbo kit
Greddy SP2 exhaust
RP cat
SR Motorsport Pulleys
New spark plugs (mazsport)
New Spark Plug wires (Mazsport)
Mazsport Interceptor-X
Center dash mounted WB 02 sensor
Greddy E-01 boost controller
ACT Clutch and Flywheel

Scott was kind enough to let me drive the car for the following two days to see the difference. On start up this morning It had a good idle, there was no need for me to wait till the car got up to temperature. From a dead stop it accelerated way better than with the emanage. Discuss i'll be right back

Moostafa29

You weren't kidding

brightnova

Partial report. More like a micro-partial. This is worse that a movie trailer. You left us even more desperate for details!!

Dont do this to us!!!

zoom44

that is an interesting place to mount the sensor. how are the readings?

loube

Sorry guys i just had to go and move a laserjet 8000 printer very big and bulky and my help was only around for 15 minutes so........... Ok i put about 70 miles on it today. Stalled it twice but that is my fault because i put in a ACT clutch and lightweight flywheel and the pedal release is low. Car was smooth as butta, acceleration was amazing didn't feel sluggish. Initial throttle was very responsive. With the greddy my biggest complaint was that when i accelerated it felt "flat" this felt "crisp", and above 5000 rpm it felt like it couldn't wait to get to redline. We are suppose to dyno it this weekend so can't wait for that. I will be "getting on it" tomorrow. Today i just wanted to see how driveable it was and this system did not disappoint. So far i am happy scott talked me into keeping my Greddy turbo system because with the Mazsport interceptor-x it really is a much better car.

loube

The sensor is mounted on the exhaust but the display is mounted on the center dash. It is pictured at mazsport's website.

Moostafa29

Much better review. Glad to hear the great improvement!

MazsportScott

Guys there are two "Finally a plug and play ECU" threads, Vendor and the horsepower upgrade forums. Omicron Help!!!

zoom44

sorry for the confusion everyone. there is only one thread now here. and then the q and a thread in the Mazsport subforum.