Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

You have no input on this thread, you don't premix. good for you.

Onyx57

why don't you take your own advice, judging by your picture I'm pretty sure you don't represent all the forum users here, just as Hitler didn't represent the German race (though he claimed so!)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Actually if you have that many miles then you are a record holder. Give me your VIN so I can verify?



I'm sorry buddy but you don't know anything on this topic and what does "in the business" mean? The dealership business? If so, then because although I like the dealership I use, they have made me laugh several times with the BS they come up with about our car.

robrecht

Total BS on your part. If you think any of my numbers are wrong, say which ones are incorrect, after all, you claimed to have checked your figures.

Mazda has not and will not release the number of engines they have had to cover under warranty but one of our most respected members has an internal Mazda source that said it was about 25%. If you have a better source, by all means let us know.

Onyx57

please check your own charts!

It's not the % number of engines that have been replaced under warranty that is at issue, it's the reason for the failures I am concerned about.
Does your "source" have the forensics or are you just speculating again?

Is there a "conspiracy" news black out on this issue, as none of the consumer reports worldwide have listed these "problems" with th engines?

robrecht

I already quoted for you the most common reasons for engine failures based on the opinions of a Mazda remanufacturing employee and the biggest non-Mazda rebuilder, and another rebuilder also posted here for you. You seem to be completely incapable of learning. And, I have no reason to check my charts. If you think they're wrong, prove it. You are not worth my time, but good luck.

Onyx57

errr...I thought I already corrected my statement, yearly average, not monthly, and please read my comments on the worldwide sales.
That means, by your "friends" theory, Mazda replaced 50,000 (approximately) engines worldwide due to OMP problems??
I don't think I am the only one who would say that is one big heap of BS!
I believe over 1m rotary engines have been manufactured in total by Mazda.






Total BS on your part. If you think any of my numbers are wrong, say which ones are incorrect, after all, you claimed to have checked your figures.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Ignore the troll guys, he doesn't listen and notice how he completely disregarded my request for his VIN to prove his ridiculous claim.

Onyx57

just because someone says it is so don't mean it is so, no matter how many times you say it!
You seem to be missing all the variables as well!

Onyx57

Well I am in Malaysia right now, having sold my previous RX almost 11/2 years ago I would gladly give you my vin number if I had it!
Oh wait a minute...I'll just pull it out of my ***!

I'm thinking what would be the point, since three or four of the squatters here have closed minds and innocent hearts!

robrecht

Even after your BS about your (repeatedly) confusing monthly sales with yearly sales, you still claimed that my numbers were incorrect--prove it.

Not my "friend," just an internal source from a former long-time Mazda employee who is well respected here (unlike you). Again, if you have a better source, let us know. Yes, 25% of 200,000 is 50,000--good for you. Personally, I would've found it much easier to believe it more likely that the 25% figure applied to 2004 or 2005 engines, but that's not what was reported. No idea how accurate the source is, just passing it along. If you had listened, however, you would have realized that I don't attribute the entirety of the problem to the OMP, but obviously it is part of it.

Onyx57

ok, that's good, I think we seem to be communicating...so just continue the sales figures, you can see from the 2 examples you gave, looking at the 2007 and 2008 comparison sales to month end December, the figures are 3368 and 5767, a drop in sales of 41%, which is fair enough considering what was happening to the economy. So I am looking at the YEARLY figures, not the monthly and if I do my sums correctly the sales from launch to date are a little over 5000 per year. So we are saying the same thing, right?
I dunno why you guys are always defensively slagging off any comments that run contrary to your beliefs...I thought forums were about debate, not exchanging insults.
I try NOT to pick and choose facts to suit my arguments, there's plenty of that rubbish available on the Internet. My business as someone asked me before is oil and gas (distributor)

Onyx57

one more thing I forgot to mention, or maybe that tiny but important fact was overlooked, the engine replacements you refer to on those early models, (I would add "mostly", though Mazda would disagree) all were found to be using synthetic oil!
I am only talking about the replacements from Mazda, not the "specialist and well respected re-builders"...
This is not my belief, view or statement, just the "forensics" if you like from the manufacturers, who I assume are well respected as they built over 1m of the damn things?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Right back at you

LMFAO !

all were found to be using synthetic oil? wow, you're really good at making **** up don't ya ?

in fact, Carbon build up is an issue for Rotary engine since it came out. oh yeah. it has been happening for the past 30-40 f-ing years.

and it has NOTHING to do with Synthetic oil.

Do you even know where this "Synthetic oil is not good for Rotary engine" bullshit originally came from ? Mazda was the reason. details? go find out on your own. but I can tell you one thing, Synthetic oil was NOT the main cause.

Excuse me? where is this "synthetic oil crap" came from again ?

consider Mazda is asking around 5-6K for engine replacement. Most people, when they're out of warranty (or deny for stupid reasons like aftermarket exhaust) they will go for 3rd party builders @ about 1/2 the cost.

and one of the most respected old man (nothing to do with EBM btw lol) has been building Rotary engine for the past 30 something years. Is that enough experience for you ? I would say he build at least couple tens if not hundred thousands of engines.


You really need to stfu, cuz you're just a joke. simple as that.

robrecht

No, as I said above, a discussion with you is just not worth my time, sorry, but I think I'll only respond to correct any misrepresentations of what I've said, like here, for example, LOL. If you want to try and add anything to the conversation, you should quote your sources because you now have a reputation for just making up nonsense, like all early engine failures being due to the use of synthetic oil. Cite a source or prepare to be ignored (at best) or ridiculed.

Onyx57

"With used cars, it can be bit more difficult. See, many RX-8 owners abuse the car and/or try to outdo Mazda engineers by sensless modifications. The engine is rev-happy but they really DO abuse it."

....what can I say? You guys are all smarter than Mazda engineers, that's why you are all so successful in your lives?

Maybe you are just in denial?

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Mods, can you please delete the troll's post. He's doing nothing but instigating and cluttering this thread when people are trying to post relevant info in regards to the thread topic.

Thanks.

Onyx57

it's ok Mod, I'm done here!

jmc23200

I don't think it's the last we will see of Onyx.

If you do come back. Explain to me this. I have a 2004 RX8 and my engine failes at 47,000 miles. I ussed nothing but 5w20 and brought the redline up to 6,000rpm every other day as instructed to by Mazda techs. All maintainence was done religiously and I did the oil changes myself essentially as my brother worked at good year and me and him would throw it on a lift and do them. I am **** when it comes down to this stuff, but my engine still failed.

As for you with 186k miles on your RX, I bet it wasn't a healthy engine. My car had low compression, but drove pretty damn well until the engine completly died on me. I had hard starts when it got cold, but nothing else that was out of the ordinary.


You might be interested in my next post as well.

jmc23200

Can I use synthetic oil in my RX-8?

This topic is hotly debated. The RX-8 owner's manual says to use 5w20 oil that meets API and ILSAC GF-3 specs. It doesn't specify oil type.

The reason why people still think rotaries and synthetic oil don't mix, dates back to the 70's when synthetic oils were new on the market. Rotary engines have a set of oil control seals in the sides of the rotors which are designed to keep oil from the lubrication system out of the combustion chambers. Each seal consists of a metal scraper with a rubber o-ring within. The o-ring was not compatible with some synthetic oils and sometimes the oil would attack the o-ring causing them to break down.

The RENESIS engine in the RX-8 has completely new o-rings that have improved longevity and compatibility with synthetic oils. Mazda does not prohibit synthetics from being used in the RENESIS engine, but recommends standard mineral oil. This is not limited to the RX-8 however, Mazda recommends mineral oil across the board for all their cars.


Here is some food for thought:

The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use �synthetic� oils including the winning 1991 Leman�s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.

MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.




What is synthetic oil?

Synthetic oil is made by synthesizing chemical compounds that were not originally present in crude oil. The new base oil is then combined with a series of additives. The main difference lies in the fact that synthetic motor oils are created utilizing a specially "synthesized" base oil where the size of the oil molecules are all of an ideal weight and of a consistent size. While a conventional motor oil is made up of different molecule sizes which are mixed together, along with various waxes and impurities, a fully synthetic oil is made to provide a much purer base oil, with less waxes and with a uniform ideal particle size to help increase the oils viscosity level. The additives which are used in the production of synthetic oils can help to create an extremely stable engine oil which will sustain the correct viscosity levels across a large range of temperatures.



So what does synthetic do for you?

1. Superior friction reducing between sliding surfaces.

2. Lowers engine temperatures. Oil accounts for 1/3rd of a rotary's cooling. You will typically see ~10 F lower temperatures with synthetic due to reduced friction between sliding surfaces.

3. Reduced foaming. Foaming is caused by air bubbles that become trapped in the oil. The bubbles prevent heat from escaping the oil, causing temperatures to rise.

4. Burns cleaner. There is reduced carbon deposits because of the ash less base. Synthetic oil also has less impurities and will burn cleaner than conventional oil. It's all but required for new diesel engines because conventional oil has much higher sulfur content.

5. Synthetic oil lasts longer then conventional oils in extreme heat conditions. This becomes especially important for FI cars.


A rotary engine can be damaged by heat very easily. Oil temps should never exceed 250 F.


What are the drawbacks to using synthetic oil?

1. Main drawback is cost. Synthetic oil can go for more than twice the cost of conventional oil.

2. Not suitable for breaking in your engine. Synthetic oil's lubrication and additives will inhibit the break in process. Your first few oil changes should be with standard mineral oil.

3. Oil leaks can occur when switching to a fully synthetic oil with an old engine. The introduction of a synthetic oil may cause the detergents in the synthetic oil to break down and clean-up waxes and sludge which was maintaining the seals in the engine. Decide if you want to use synthetic sooner rather than later.



Questions and answers


Q: If synthetic oil resists heat better than conventional, doesn't that mean it's not going to burn in the engine as it's injected?

A: You're not burning quarts of oil at a time. The MOP is injecting tiny amounts of oil to lubricate the seals. At that ratio of gas:oil, the oil mixes with the fuel and burns quite easily in the 1600+ F temperatures in your engine.



Q: Why does Mazda not recommend synthetic oil?

A: Synthetic oil performs better than non synthetic oil. This isn't up for debate, it's a fact. With that said, Mazda doesn't recommend it, and no one knows why.



Some theorize that:

1. Mazda has no way to test all synthetics to make sure they're okay for use, thus they take an all or nothing approach.

2. Another theory states that one brand of synthetic oil leaves more carbon after being burned than it should. This in turn causes carbon buildup in the engine. In order to avoid legal implications from naming a specific company not to buy from, Mazda simply states no synthetics. Since I'm not Mazda, I can mention to you that Mobile 1 is the synthetic oil in question. Please keep in mind this is an unsubstantiated rumor.



Q: Does "FULL SYNTHETIC" really mean the oil is synthetic?

A: No. Oils such as Castrol Syntec say "full synthetic" on the bottle, but are derived from crude oil. In 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil" and removed PAO from the base stock. It's now based off of hydrocracked mineral oil. This move saved Castrol's production costs by 50% while they continued to charge normal synthetic prices. Moral of the story: Make sure you do some research before buying. Castrol isn't the only one doing this.

jmc23200

Typically oil-based deposits appear as dark black and have a gummy, tar-like consistency. Carbon tends to coat any surface that may be exposed to either the combustion process or handle engine exhaust. It is often most evident on fuel injectors and combustion chambers. Deposits also form on the throttle body, spark plugs, intake manifold as well as in the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors.

By contrast, fuel-based carbon build-up occurs when an engine burns an excessively rich air/fuel mixture. Too much fuel will tend to produce a relatively large amount of carbon waste that is not as thick as oil deposits but it is hard, dry and tougher to remove. Causes of fuel-based deposits often include a computer fault, a bad or leaking fuel injector or other potential reasons that cause and excessive amount of fuel to be burned during the combustion process.





The RX8 does not have one or the other........ it has BOTH.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I don't believe anyone, especially in Malaysia, will reach 187,000 mile in 6 yrs. Thats driving 31K miles a year continuously or 88 miles each day for 6 yrs.

Onyx57

you are quite correct, it wasn't in Malaysia since I am from Boston originally, but quite a brilliant deduction if I may say so. Obviously you don't follow threads very well, but no matter, you are in good company here.

Onyx57

I think if the explanation came from Mazda as to why your engine failed, I would give it some credibility. 47k is a low mileage! But I believe Mazda never had 50,000 engine failures like this!
I honestly don'y know why your engine failed other than problems did exist with the OMP delivery tubes. some SC's used the wrong oil specs, not in accordance with Mazda's instructions, and yes, there are ham fisted mechanics around, quite a lot in fact. My engine was on it's "last legs" maybe, but it didn't expire, compression was ok, not great. I never used any kind of fuel or petrol additives, cleaners, only Mazda oils (never synthetics as far as I know) and did a LOT of highway driving, it was part of the job I did. What can I say?

jmc23200

I say it is time to swing the Ban Hammer