Gas/Oil Premix Thread
02-19-2010, 08:35 AM
#2451
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if it's tenagential, then it's not the main point of the thread. (I think that's called a Malapropism!) Ford in fact had nothing to do with the third and center oil injector.....stopping it or otherwise. funny how you seem to speculate on Mazda's intentions without interviewing them! I would not rely on what Mazda US was saying. My experience of car dealers in the US is not inspiring, and I think it naive to believe what they have been claiming without any substantiation.
The third oil injector came with a host of other "improvements" to the series 1 engine on the RX. In fact many of these were driven by what is known in the business as the "lowest common denominator". You have to engineer the engine to be foolproof. I would give credit to Mazda for all their service efforts, (and not just in the US because of the so called "litigation"), if you compare with the current Toyota woes let's say. At least the RX didn't kill anyone because of faulty OMP's.
There are many objective surveys of customer satisfaction and car reliability, not our personal perceptions, and Mazda scores very highly over the past six years. In fact the RX8 comes over as just "average" reliability with few recalls. That's not my opinion but gathered fact.
The third oil injector came with a host of other "improvements" to the series 1 engine on the RX. In fact many of these were driven by what is known in the business as the "lowest common denominator". You have to engineer the engine to be foolproof. I would give credit to Mazda for all their service efforts, (and not just in the US because of the so called "litigation"), if you compare with the current Toyota woes let's say. At least the RX didn't kill anyone because of faulty OMP's.
There are many objective surveys of customer satisfaction and car reliability, not our personal perceptions, and Mazda scores very highly over the past six years. In fact the RX8 comes over as just "average" reliability with few recalls. That's not my opinion but gathered fact.
Onyx, you're not really offering anything to this thread and kind of missing the point. If you want to argue about Ford's role with Mazda, why not start your own thread about that?
The tangential relevance to this thread, which I think you missed, is the claim put forward by some within Mazda, after Ford sold their controlling interest, that Ford bean counters had prevented Mazda engineers from including a third, center oil injector on the Renesis OMP system.
The tangential relevance to this thread, which I think you missed, is the claim put forward by some within Mazda, after Ford sold their controlling interest, that Ford bean counters had prevented Mazda engineers from including a third, center oil injector on the Renesis OMP system.
02-19-2010, 09:47 AM
#2455
I am starting to realize they don't stock the Saber Pro, anywhere around I live. I got the NAPA in Tilbury, (on my delivery route) to start stocking it for me. What are the other smaller distros out there that you guys use. I see a bunch out there and I just wonder how many people use them. As stated before, (when I can get a supply), I use Legend zx-2sr, love that stuff from Traverse City, Michigan. Smells good too.
) and Idemitsu when I get off my duff and drive down to the Mazdatrix to get a case
02-19-2010, 10:05 AM
#2461
Just a friendly recap too.
Octane rating of 90, based on the RON standards used in Europe. This is the equivalent of an 87 rating under the Canadian AKI standards. A rating of 87 is indeed considered "regular" fuel, but we still recommend a "premium" fue, when fuel is premixed with 2-stroke oil, the octane rating is reduced by about 2 points. An 87 octane fuel would therefore become 85 octane. It is recommended to buy gas at the busier gas stations of the major oil companies, since their tanks are renewed often allowing the fuel to stay fresh and clean. Certain fuels contain alcohols such as ethanol. These ingredients should be avoided since they absorb water which then creates corrosion. They also have the effect of reducing the oil's lubricating properties. It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead content will increase deposits in the combustion chamber and on crankshaft ball bearings, inducing premature wear. Its higher octane rating does not bring any significant advantage to the engine's operation. It is also essential to choose an oil which is designed for an air cooled engine even if you own a liquid cooled engine. They are more efficient. If you own an oil-injected engine, you simply need to keep your oil tank topped up frequently. Otherwise, it is necessary to premix your oil and fuel. The ratio is 50 to 1, or 2% (with no OMP) . This means you would mix 400mL of oil in 20L of fuel, 500mL for 25L, and so on. Using more oil than recommended would not help your engine in any way: it will accelerate the formation of carbon deposits which will eventually break loose and accelerate wear. And avoid Oils primarily designed for outboard 2-stroke engines.
Octane rating of 90, based on the RON standards used in Europe. This is the equivalent of an 87 rating under the Canadian AKI standards. A rating of 87 is indeed considered "regular" fuel, but we still recommend a "premium" fue, when fuel is premixed with 2-stroke oil, the octane rating is reduced by about 2 points. An 87 octane fuel would therefore become 85 octane. It is recommended to buy gas at the busier gas stations of the major oil companies, since their tanks are renewed often allowing the fuel to stay fresh and clean. Certain fuels contain alcohols such as ethanol. These ingredients should be avoided since they absorb water which then creates corrosion. They also have the effect of reducing the oil's lubricating properties. It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead content will increase deposits in the combustion chamber and on crankshaft ball bearings, inducing premature wear. Its higher octane rating does not bring any significant advantage to the engine's operation. It is also essential to choose an oil which is designed for an air cooled engine even if you own a liquid cooled engine. They are more efficient. If you own an oil-injected engine, you simply need to keep your oil tank topped up frequently. Otherwise, it is necessary to premix your oil and fuel. The ratio is 50 to 1, or 2% (with no OMP) . This means you would mix 400mL of oil in 20L of fuel, 500mL for 25L, and so on. Using more oil than recommended would not help your engine in any way: it will accelerate the formation of carbon deposits which will eventually break loose and accelerate wear. And avoid Oils primarily designed for outboard 2-stroke engines.
02-19-2010, 10:51 AM
#2463
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hmmmmmm, If I put more 2 cycle oil in my gas then he recommends, it will create carbon............. is this true even if the 2 cycle oil is clean burning leaving very little ash and has a low flashpoint? You have the data and engines to prove this?
02-19-2010, 01:28 PM
#2467
I get schooled every week at the airport and have begun taking notes. 8 of the guy's are using rotax rotaries, 4 of them have 20b's and 2 have renesis engines, all running premix. All of the mazda's have sohn adapters. Granted they are running steady rpm's, they are also running them for many more hours at a time at such high rpm that we use. The school goes over engine maintenance everyweek, and this is a subject that they often discuss. I have two other wankel's so this thread is pretty relevant to me.
02-19-2010, 01:31 PM
#2468
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I always wondered how the Renesis' being used in aviation running the SOHN are doing............
If we could get some input on that it would be nice, however the operating conditions are completely different.
If we could get some input on that it would be nice, however the operating conditions are completely different.
02-19-2010, 01:40 PM
#2469
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New RX-8. Mmmmmmm....
But no ... I've just recently installed the BHR ignition and fallen back in love with my Renny. And my next car will be electric; gotta save up.
Didn't realize the adapter was that cheap. Having the separate supply, then all of the positive attributes of good 2-cycle oils would make sense to me. My MMO use is meant more to *combat* the negative attributes of burning 4-cycle oil.
hmmmm... better late than never. But I will miss that wintergreen smell!
02-19-2010, 01:51 PM
#2471
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Haha, wouldn't be the first time I ran something into the ground as an "excuse" for something new!
New RX-8. Mmmmmmm....
But no ... I've just recently installed the BHR ignition and fallen back in love with my Renny. And my next car will be electric; gotta save up.
Didn't realize the adapter was that cheap. Having the separate supply, then all of the positive attributes of good 2-cycle oils would make sense to me. My MMO use is meant more to *combat* the negative attributes of burning 4-cycle oil.
hmmmm... better late than never. But I will miss that wintergreen smell!
New RX-8. Mmmmmmm....
But no ... I've just recently installed the BHR ignition and fallen back in love with my Renny. And my next car will be electric; gotta save up.
Didn't realize the adapter was that cheap. Having the separate supply, then all of the positive attributes of good 2-cycle oils would make sense to me. My MMO use is meant more to *combat* the negative attributes of burning 4-cycle oil.
hmmmm... better late than never. But I will miss that wintergreen smell!
Even though I run the SOHN I still premix 6oz per fillup.
02-19-2010, 01:58 PM
#2473
That's fine, you are burning clean 2cy and adding in clean premix fuel.
? Why would you premix though, why not up the omp? Cause of habit?
Running a heavy premix and burning the 4cy oil from the oem system is not something I would do. Neither would you, that's why you don't. I run a real rich mix on my 2cy snowmobile wankel and it likes it. I would assume FI applications would want a rich mix also.
edit, good idea with the emails. The most unbiased information is the best form of science.
? Why would you premix though, why not up the omp? Cause of habit?
Running a heavy premix and burning the 4cy oil from the oem system is not something I would do. Neither would you, that's why you don't. I run a real rich mix on my 2cy snowmobile wankel and it likes it. I would assume FI applications would want a rich mix also.
edit, good idea with the emails. The most unbiased information is the best form of science.
Last edited by Chad D.; 02-19-2010 at 02:00 PM.