Gas/Oil Premix Thread
08-11-2012, 11:19 AM
#3503
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Read the thread or at least some of it. You don't *need* it but many people do like to do it for some extra protection. Also make sure you understand you do not want to premix with engine oil, people are talking about 2 cycle oil. Don't just buy some random 2 cycle and start using it read and make sure you get the right one. I use lucas semi-synthetic 2 cycle but that is the best I can get locally. If you are willing to order some then you can buy premix specifically made for a rotary by idemitsu.
08-11-2012, 09:46 PM
#3504
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
08-11-2012, 10:04 PM
#3505
Un-Registered User
I am getting so tired of innocent newbies being told to "read the thread". Yeah, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill, read the thread. Better yet, just read "parts" of it. Which parts? The parts that are well-informed, of course. What's that? How do you know which posts are good and which are a waste of time?
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
we need a "green" filter to filter the good info from the bad
08-11-2012, 10:11 PM
#3506
As true as it is a pain in the *** to read through all this info, at least it's all available in one spot.
The best that could happen is we make a new thread, sticky it, and after everyone has given their theories, it will turn into 100+ pages again.
The premix topic boils down to a simple answer: Educate yourself on the topic and come to a decision.
The best that could happen is we make a new thread, sticky it, and after everyone has given their theories, it will turn into 100+ pages again.
The premix topic boils down to a simple answer: Educate yourself on the topic and come to a decision.
I am getting so tired of innocent newbies being told to "read the thread". Yeah, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill, read the thread. Better yet, just read "parts" of it. Which parts? The parts that are well-informed, of course. What's that? How do you know which posts are good and which are a waste of time?
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
08-11-2012, 11:37 PM
#3507
What could be done for mega-threads is this: half a dozen bullet points summarizing the content. Then, if you'd rather read for 14 hours instead of 2 minutes, you can continue on into the quagmire.
08-12-2012, 12:32 AM
#3508
Registered
It got expensive too, it used to be like $6 an now its $10.
I had to read the thread to make an at least semi educated choice on my premix. Bullet points would help though because a good portion of the thread is everyone learning and deciding what ones best while just throwing out ideas at the start. On the third page there is a post saying basically "these are good ones" and some marine premixes are listed but if you keep reading at some point someone says no stay away from TCW3 premixes. It finally gets settled that you want a non-tcw3 and make sure it is jaso fc/fd certified also. I think most people would skip ahead and read recent posts though so they do not need to read the whole thing.
I had to read the thread to make an at least semi educated choice on my premix. Bullet points would help though because a good portion of the thread is everyone learning and deciding what ones best while just throwing out ideas at the start. On the third page there is a post saying basically "these are good ones" and some marine premixes are listed but if you keep reading at some point someone says no stay away from TCW3 premixes. It finally gets settled that you want a non-tcw3 and make sure it is jaso fc/fd certified also. I think most people would skip ahead and read recent posts though so they do not need to read the whole thing.
09-04-2012, 05:41 PM
#3509
Lubricious
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I am getting so tired of innocent newbies being told to "read the thread". Yeah, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill, read the thread. Better yet, just read "parts" of it. Which parts? The parts that are well-informed, of course. What's that? How do you know which posts are good and which are a waste of time?
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
As I said, if you have 8 or 9 days to kill…
8 or 9 days not required for that epiphany. Now, forming one's own opinion on the matter is another story even if the premix consensus is a bit more solid than the neverending "synthetic vs. non-synthetic" debate.
Alternatively,
Let me google that for you
But sorry if I came off as rude; just having a bit of fun. We were all noobs once.
09-10-2012, 06:55 PM
#3510
Being a long time Turbo RX7 owner, I was, at first, not a fan of premixing.
Then one day, maybe 8 years ago, I was in Pettits shop and made a mention of premix and how did they feel. Candy took me to a shelf and pulled 2 housings, one OMP only with the little line 1/3 way around the face, the other premix with the entire face smooth and looking like the little line on the omp rotor.
I was sold, so much so I took the OMP off my RX7, blocked the holes and never looked back. (I run a Motec on it)
As soon as I got my 8 home, I went straight to the shelf and put 4 ounces into the tank which is just over 1/2 full.
I have used Pettits Protec R and now use Amsoil Dominator 2 cycle oil and I am considering switching to their new Interceptor Oil because, by the description, it sounds like it would be perfect for a rotary.
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil
Then one day, maybe 8 years ago, I was in Pettits shop and made a mention of premix and how did they feel. Candy took me to a shelf and pulled 2 housings, one OMP only with the little line 1/3 way around the face, the other premix with the entire face smooth and looking like the little line on the omp rotor.
I was sold, so much so I took the OMP off my RX7, blocked the holes and never looked back. (I run a Motec on it)
As soon as I got my 8 home, I went straight to the shelf and put 4 ounces into the tank which is just over 1/2 full.
I have used Pettits Protec R and now use Amsoil Dominator 2 cycle oil and I am considering switching to their new Interceptor Oil because, by the description, it sounds like it would be perfect for a rotary.
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil is specifically formulated to inhibit exhaust power valve sticking, ring sticking and engine wear in high-performance powersports applications. It contains synthetic base oils that increase lubricity and provide exceptional wear protection for pistons, cylinders and bearings. Its robust additive package provides superior overall cleanliness properties in both air- and liquid-cooled engines and in hot-operating direct-fuel-injected (DFI) engines.
Excellent Deposit Control for Exhaust Power Valves
Some two-cycle oils can allow deposits to accumulate on the functioning regions of exhaust power valves, resulting in sticking and poor performance. INTERCEPTOR's excellent cleanliness properties inhibit deposit formation to help ensure power valves operate as designed for long periods.
Helps Control Wear
Its synthetic base oils and increased lubricity allow INTERCEPTOR to reduce friction and withstand the rigors of high-performance operation. It is engineered to maintain a durable lubricating film between components and control wear to critical engine parts.
Low Smoke & Odor
INTERCEPTOR is formulated for reduced smoke and odor associated with two-cycle engines.
Excellent performance in fuel-efficient, low-emissions engines such as Rotax® E-TEC™
Helps prevent hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking
Superior lubricity controls cylinder, piston and bearing wear
Helps prevent plug fouling
Provides exceptional SAE #4 cold-temperature fluidity (-60°F pour point)
Protects against rust
Helps prevent pre-ignition from combustion chamber ?hot spots?
Excellent Deposit Control for Exhaust Power Valves
Some two-cycle oils can allow deposits to accumulate on the functioning regions of exhaust power valves, resulting in sticking and poor performance. INTERCEPTOR's excellent cleanliness properties inhibit deposit formation to help ensure power valves operate as designed for long periods.
Helps Control Wear
Its synthetic base oils and increased lubricity allow INTERCEPTOR to reduce friction and withstand the rigors of high-performance operation. It is engineered to maintain a durable lubricating film between components and control wear to critical engine parts.
Low Smoke & Odor
INTERCEPTOR is formulated for reduced smoke and odor associated with two-cycle engines.
Excellent performance in fuel-efficient, low-emissions engines such as Rotax® E-TEC™
Helps prevent hard carbon deposits that cause exhaust power valve sticking
Superior lubricity controls cylinder, piston and bearing wear
Helps prevent plug fouling
Provides exceptional SAE #4 cold-temperature fluidity (-60°F pour point)
Protects against rust
Helps prevent pre-ignition from combustion chamber ?hot spots?
09-10-2012, 07:15 PM
#3511
Interceptor Oil because, by the description, it sounds like it would be perfect for a rotary.
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR 2-Cycle Oil
It's what I've been using for the last 4 years .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
(off and on ... moron then off lol ever since I was boosted 2 years ago)
09-10-2012, 07:18 PM
#3512
Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought this stuff looked good for Rotaries.
It's what I've been using for the last 4 years .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
(off and on ... moron then off lol ever since I was boosted 2 years ago)
It's what I've been using for the last 4 years .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
(off and on ... moron then off lol ever since I was boosted 2 years ago)
I buy my 2 cycle by the gallon, last purchase was close to 4 years ago, I bought 4 gallons and I transfer to 8 oz. bottles as needed.
So I am finally down to my last gallon and, well, I guess I have not looked at Amsoils site in a while.
So how is it working for you, did you notice a difference?
09-10-2012, 07:50 PM
#3513
Has it been out for 4 years now?
I buy my 2 cycle by the gallon, last purchase was close to 4 years ago, I bought 4 gallons and I transfer to 8 oz. bottles as needed.
So I am finally down to my last gallon and, well, I guess I have not looked at Amsoils site in a while.
So how is it working for you, did you notice a difference?
I buy my 2 cycle by the gallon, last purchase was close to 4 years ago, I bought 4 gallons and I transfer to 8 oz. bottles as needed.
So I am finally down to my last gallon and, well, I guess I have not looked at Amsoils site in a while.
So how is it working for you, did you notice a difference?
I'm not at home right now so I can't go out and validate that it is the "Interceptor" brand but I'm 99.99% sure.
When I look at the rest of the products they sell on their website ... I say increase that to 110% sure because it's the only bottle that I recognize, I've not seen or used any of the others.
So assuming I'm correct ... I started using it when I went nitrous'd in 2006-2007 (off and on)
I went boosted in 2010-2011 and I premix 9 out 10 fill ups ... I'm not exact about it ... I just pour about 5 oz in or 200 ml
I only do it for safety ... I've not notice any difference between premix and no-premix.
Really before I was boosted I would often go several tanks with then without and scratch my head to what the fuss was about and put it down to internals.
So at that time I would only premix when I had a tank of nitrous.
Now I sit and think about it and I still don't know why I do it ... likely because I'm not smart enough to actually know if it's helping or not and ...
The only thing I have to go on is this,
However let me preface with this small note which is I am only speculating and do not know:
Going on the fact that an RX7 not using an OMP but running premix always had more fuel added as demands increased ... so more boost more fuel meant adding more premixed fuel.
The RX8's OMP will deliver more oil as load increase but is limited.
Of course you can increase the OMP delivery using the Cobb AP, however my "guess" is the OMP is not capable of delivering enough oil in most boosted conditions. I would suspect the OMP's capability is tied to the amount of fuel that is possible for the OEM injectors to deliver.
So you go boosted and add larger injectors and need another way to add oil ... why because the OMP can't deliver what is required.
Hence Premix on boosted 8's even with an OMP that still functions.
Well that's it ... right wrong or otherwise
Last edited by wcs; 09-10-2012 at 07:58 PM.
09-10-2012, 08:01 PM
#3514
Makes complete sense and I never thought to look at it that way. Very good reasoning.
I never "felt" a difference using or not using, but I know what I saw at Pettits that day and I am positive that it makes a big difference, the OMP does not do an adequate job, it is a band aid solution. Why? Because Mazda knows if they told their customers to premix, they would never sell a car.
I am planning on adding 5-6 oz. a tankfull on the 8. I think that will be a good ratio to keep the engine happy.
I am wondering if I will notice a difference on my 7 though, it would be nice to puff less smoke.
We shall see, order for the Interceptor going in tomorrow. Yes, 4 gallons worth, especially since I have to premix 2 cars now.
*Edit* - BTW - I was not calling you out, I have been out for the "scene" for several years, so I am not up on a lot of new developments. I thought that Interceptor was new because "I" did not see it but I also have not been active online for a long time nor have I been needing anything for years. I know, hard concept to grasp, a rotary owner with a trouble free car but it is true, outside routine maintenance, I have not had to do a thing to my RX7 in 4+ years now. I just drive it and enjoy it. I hope this continues with the 8, reading some of the tech and troubleshooting sections on here is scary.
I never "felt" a difference using or not using, but I know what I saw at Pettits that day and I am positive that it makes a big difference, the OMP does not do an adequate job, it is a band aid solution. Why? Because Mazda knows if they told their customers to premix, they would never sell a car.
I am planning on adding 5-6 oz. a tankfull on the 8. I think that will be a good ratio to keep the engine happy.
I am wondering if I will notice a difference on my 7 though, it would be nice to puff less smoke.
We shall see, order for the Interceptor going in tomorrow. Yes, 4 gallons worth, especially since I have to premix 2 cars now.
*Edit* - BTW - I was not calling you out, I have been out for the "scene" for several years, so I am not up on a lot of new developments. I thought that Interceptor was new because "I" did not see it but I also have not been active online for a long time nor have I been needing anything for years. I know, hard concept to grasp, a rotary owner with a trouble free car but it is true, outside routine maintenance, I have not had to do a thing to my RX7 in 4+ years now. I just drive it and enjoy it. I hope this continues with the 8, reading some of the tech and troubleshooting sections on here is scary.
Last edited by Jims5543; 09-10-2012 at 08:35 PM.
09-11-2012, 07:55 AM
#3515
The only thing I have to go on is this,
However let me preface with this small note which is I am only speculating and do not know:
Going on the fact that an RX7 not using an OMP but running premix always had more fuel added as demands increased ... so more boost more fuel meant adding more premixed fuel.
The RX8's OMP will deliver more oil as load increase but is limited.
Of course you can increase the OMP delivery using the Cobb AP, however my "guess" is the OMP is not capable of delivering enough oil in most boosted conditions. I would suspect the OMP's capability is tied to the amount of fuel that is possible for the OEM injectors to deliver.
So you go boosted and add larger injectors and need another way to add oil ... why because the OMP can't deliver what is required.
Hence Premix on boosted 8's even with an OMP that still functions.
Well that's it ... right wrong or otherwise
I add 6.5oz per fill up and can feel a difference between premixing and not, but my engine has about 70k on it now (25k from me with premix, not sure about before) so that could be why.
I wanna try that Amsoil oil out now though.
09-11-2012, 08:41 AM
#3517
I think the Rx-8 omp could deliver enough oil, I thought the problem was the lack of a center oil injector to spread it more evenly. I had made a map with the omp set to 60 across the board (checking for line leaks) and the amount of blue smoke was unbelievable at idle! I still premix, I figure a little extra protection never hurts, and I can't see how premixing would hurt anything in a rotary. I've done it in all my Rx-7's and never lost an engine.
I add 6.5oz per fill up and can feel a difference between premixing and not, but my engine has about 70k on it now (25k from me with premix, not sure about before) so that could be why.
I wanna try that Amsoil oil out now though.
I add 6.5oz per fill up and can feel a difference between premixing and not, but my engine has about 70k on it now (25k from me with premix, not sure about before) so that could be why.
I wanna try that Amsoil oil out now though.
Do we really know if 60 is max?
I've seen other tuners enter values past 60 ... as much as 85
So there might just be some head room.
That all said most boosted folks are running way larger injectors than stock, I doubt the OMP has that much head room.
And of course the lack of a centre injector
09-11-2012, 12:33 PM
#3519
Registered
The general consensus seems to be that tcw3 oils are not a good thing to use, I would switch to the ones that are recommended by people here. That or just find one that is jaso fd/fc and you will be fine.
09-12-2012, 09:55 AM
#3520
...pondering...
Any idea if AmsOil Interceptor is JASO fd/fc (or equivalent)? Didn't see anything on their site....
09-12-2012, 12:22 PM
#3521
Registered
Another site says it is listed as jaso fc but not actually certified as that. This thread was from 2006 but it said amsoil just said to use that oil in applications that called for jaso fc. I think most people that use amsoil use saber pro because it is jaso fd.
09-12-2012, 05:18 PM
#3525
Registered
I didn't mean it as a bad thing for that oil, it is just always a bit better if you have a independent company test it and say that oil is as advertised. I would definitely trust Idemitsu when they say it "exceeds jaso-fc classifications", if I could get bottles locally that is what I would be using.