Gas/Oil Premix Thread
06-08-2012, 02:17 PM
#3477
SARX Legend
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Wanna see pics of my premixed engine and Houstonrx8ers? Different failure reason but both were premixed. I am injecting Idemitsu VIA my SOHN but I' debating on whether to stop premixing or not.
06-08-2012, 02:32 PM
#3480
SARX Legend
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Yeah I ran synthetic and premixed, and ran the SOHN. It still didn't save my coolant seals 
We shall see this round since I'm not starting with a shitty Mazda reman. If this one fails despite all that then the next one is getting 10W-30 GTX and no premix and no SOHN.
We shall see this round since I'm not starting with a shitty Mazda reman. If this one fails despite all that then the next one is getting 10W-30 GTX and no premix and no SOHN.
06-10-2012, 03:10 AM
#3483
06-10-2012, 09:14 PM
#3484
Lubricious
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Seriously, think about the task at hand. You're not trying to lubricate a bearing with thousands of psi needing massive film strength, but a metal housing with seals sweeping by while carbon and all manner of partially burned oil residue is accumulating.
If solvents were an issue you'd be doomed from the start -- the whole chamber is misted with friggin' gasoline.
Whatever lube gets to the housings (omp, mmo...) is short-lived in any case, regardless of viscosity. Does its job briefly, "burns", degrades, and then the residue needs to be gotten rid of. The specific solvents in MMO seem like what's needed.
In any case, my time with the Renesis is done. Didn't manage to kill it in 8 years. Who knows if I hadn't sold it...? At some point I think it's all splitting hairs.
Last edited by Nubo; 06-10-2012 at 09:19 PM.
06-11-2012, 07:14 AM
#3485
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I know -- perfect!
Seriously, think about the task at hand. You're not trying to lubricate a bearing with thousands of psi needing massive film strength, but a metal housing with seals sweeping by while carbon and all manner of partially burned oil residue is accumulating.
If solvents were an issue you'd be doomed from the start -- the whole chamber is misted with friggin' gasoline.
Whatever lube gets to the housings (omp, mmo...) is short-lived in any case, regardless of viscosity. Does its job briefly, "burns", degrades, and then the residue needs to be gotten rid of. The specific solvents in MMO seem like what's needed.
In any case, my time with the Renesis is done. Didn't manage to kill it in 8 years. Who knows if I hadn't sold it...? At some point I think it's all splitting hairs.
Seriously, think about the task at hand. You're not trying to lubricate a bearing with thousands of psi needing massive film strength, but a metal housing with seals sweeping by while carbon and all manner of partially burned oil residue is accumulating.
If solvents were an issue you'd be doomed from the start -- the whole chamber is misted with friggin' gasoline.
Whatever lube gets to the housings (omp, mmo...) is short-lived in any case, regardless of viscosity. Does its job briefly, "burns", degrades, and then the residue needs to be gotten rid of. The specific solvents in MMO seem like what's needed.
In any case, my time with the Renesis is done. Didn't manage to kill it in 8 years. Who knows if I hadn't sold it...? At some point I think it's all splitting hairs.
I know it is all anecdotal at this point if it is good to premix or not and what to pre-mix if you decide to. I just use Lucas UCL since I have to keep my cat and it is specifically designed to LUBRICATE in a combustion chamber envinronment and not harm smog equipment. Your results may very.
if I was racing my 8 or running cat-less, I'd probably be using idemitsu.
Last edited by usnidc; 06-11-2012 at 07:16 AM.
06-11-2012, 12:05 PM
#3486
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i found this old 2oz syringe i had in my kitchen.
i use it like this:
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6-8oz per tank. however, the plunger does get gummy from the oil and sticks.
looking for an easier solution. turkey baster?
i use it like this:
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l][/IMG][/url]
6-8oz per tank. however, the plunger does get gummy from the oil and sticks.
looking for an easier solution. turkey baster?
06-11-2012, 12:21 PM
#3487
Hey, I'm clumbsy as hell, and I just pour in 6-8 oz. by looking at the clear measuring marks on the side. You're already guessing how much you need, since the gas you need varies.
Anyone can easily do it without over thinking it.
Anyone can easily do it without over thinking it.
06-11-2012, 12:30 PM
#3488
Lubricious
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They need more volume of lubricating fluid.
because the rate and coverage were inadequate
all of the above, also more fluid improves sealing/compression at the risk of increased emissions, and catalytic converter fouling (though of course racers don't worry about that sort of thing).
But, none of this implies what specific viscosity range is best for premix in general driving. It's incorrect to say that MMO does not lubricate. It does contain light oil, and one has to keep in mind that it is additive to the existing omp input. You are trying to float the seals and keep deposits from forming.
I've used MMO as premix in weed-eaters with decent results. And I use it for bicycle chains. It's a fantastic cleaner/lube. Once clean I usually add a small amount of heavier oil, actuate the links and then let the solvents evaporate -- very similar to what I was trying to achieve in the rotary.
why did Mazda increase the omp settings in the S1 and add a third nozzle in the S2's?
Why do racing teams pre-mix?
But, none of this implies what specific viscosity range is best for premix in general driving. It's incorrect to say that MMO does not lubricate. It does contain light oil, and one has to keep in mind that it is additive to the existing omp input. You are trying to float the seals and keep deposits from forming.
I've used MMO as premix in weed-eaters with decent results. And I use it for bicycle chains. It's a fantastic cleaner/lube. Once clean I usually add a small amount of heavier oil, actuate the links and then let the solvents evaporate -- very similar to what I was trying to achieve in the rotary.
06-14-2012, 01:17 AM
#3490
Registered
THIS. I can't believe how much unnecessary thought and effort is put into measuring out premix. The Idemitsu bottles have 4 oz graduations on them. I just pour in the amount I want. Takes all of about 10 seconds...
06-14-2012, 07:17 AM
#3491
Yea I just buy some Idemitsu and dump it in when I fuel up. Let it be 4 oz 6 oz 8 oz whatever...Since there has never been a scientific proof on the amount to be used I figure I can't be right or wrong anyway. Sometimes I am lazy and I just not use it at all, and following the same reason above it leads to be same conclusion. The worst case is that I have to spend that $4k to replace the motor a few thousands miles earllier..
06-30-2012, 12:33 AM
#3492
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New to Rotorys
I have a ? about the oil everyone is saying use royal purple synthetic oil but my manual says DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL What is the deal should i use synthetic or non????
I am driving a 09 sires 2 rx-8 by the way
I am driving a 09 sires 2 rx-8 by the way
08-05-2012, 07:11 PM
#3494
I have read a lot of this thread, but not all of it. 3500 posts and many of them are not very informative. I have a question that maybe one of you would be so kind to answer or at least just give me the post number(s)
I found a post where someone had put up a photo of a rotor that had been premixed with no OMP and the other was just the OMP and no premix, if I remember correctly, Pretty dramatic difference. At any rate, I was wondering if somewhere in this vast accumulation of posts was there any photos of any rotors that had been premixed with a functioning OMP?
Also while on the subject if someone with pretty in depth knowledge of how these motors operate can help me understand something I am not quite wrapping my mind around. I can see the benefits of premixing, as I understand the process. As it enters through the fuel injectors , it it atomized and contributes to the lubrication of the seals, aiding in maintaining compression and perhaps some cooling effect as well. In the compression cycle, the oil obviously still present is still performing it's intended purpose. Once ignited in the fuel mixture, (my question) is it all burnt off? If so is there any protection of the rotor and seals during the exhaust phase? Or does it matter since during the next rotation it is just going to get re-oiled (lack of a better term). I apologize if this has already been covered, but I was not ble to find it. Again links are welcome I don't mind the read. Thanks in advance for any help
I found a post where someone had put up a photo of a rotor that had been premixed with no OMP and the other was just the OMP and no premix, if I remember correctly, Pretty dramatic difference. At any rate, I was wondering if somewhere in this vast accumulation of posts was there any photos of any rotors that had been premixed with a functioning OMP?
Also while on the subject if someone with pretty in depth knowledge of how these motors operate can help me understand something I am not quite wrapping my mind around. I can see the benefits of premixing, as I understand the process. As it enters through the fuel injectors , it it atomized and contributes to the lubrication of the seals, aiding in maintaining compression and perhaps some cooling effect as well. In the compression cycle, the oil obviously still present is still performing it's intended purpose. Once ignited in the fuel mixture, (my question) is it all burnt off? If so is there any protection of the rotor and seals during the exhaust phase? Or does it matter since during the next rotation it is just going to get re-oiled (lack of a better term). I apologize if this has already been covered, but I was not ble to find it. Again links are welcome I don't mind the read. Thanks in advance for any help
08-05-2012, 08:58 PM
#3495
Lubricious
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I have read a lot of this thread, but not all of it. 3500 posts and many of them are not very informative. I have a question that maybe one of you would be so kind to answer or at least just give me the post number(s)
I found a post where someone had put up a photo of a rotor that had been premixed with no OMP and the other was just the OMP and no premix, if I remember correctly, Pretty dramatic difference. At any rate, I was wondering if somewhere in this vast accumulation of posts was there any photos of any rotors that had been premixed with a functioning OMP?
Also while on the subject if someone with pretty in depth knowledge of how these motors operate can help me understand something I am not quite wrapping my mind around. I can see the benefits of premixing, as I understand the process. As it enters through the fuel injectors , it it atomized and contributes to the lubrication of the seals, aiding in maintaining compression and perhaps some cooling effect as well. In the compression cycle, the oil obviously still present is still performing it's intended purpose. Once ignited in the fuel mixture, (my question) is it all burnt off? If so is there any protection of the rotor and seals during the exhaust phase? Or does it matter since during the next rotation it is just going to get re-oiled (lack of a better term). I apologize if this has already been covered, but I was not ble to find it. Again links are welcome I don't mind the read. Thanks in advance for any help
I found a post where someone had put up a photo of a rotor that had been premixed with no OMP and the other was just the OMP and no premix, if I remember correctly, Pretty dramatic difference. At any rate, I was wondering if somewhere in this vast accumulation of posts was there any photos of any rotors that had been premixed with a functioning OMP?
Also while on the subject if someone with pretty in depth knowledge of how these motors operate can help me understand something I am not quite wrapping my mind around. I can see the benefits of premixing, as I understand the process. As it enters through the fuel injectors , it it atomized and contributes to the lubrication of the seals, aiding in maintaining compression and perhaps some cooling effect as well. In the compression cycle, the oil obviously still present is still performing it's intended purpose. Once ignited in the fuel mixture, (my question) is it all burnt off? If so is there any protection of the rotor and seals during the exhaust phase? Or does it matter since during the next rotation it is just going to get re-oiled (lack of a better term). I apologize if this has already been covered, but I was not ble to find it. Again links are welcome I don't mind the read. Thanks in advance for any help
08-06-2012, 02:30 PM
#3496
Registered
What I recall reading somewhere is that as the air/fuel mixture is ignited, the shockwave causes droplets of the oil to condense and coat the surfaces. Ignition consumes the air/fuel mixture but at a small scale next to the metal surfaces, not everything is burned and some of the lubrication survives. Iirc...
I have that personal experience with my RX-8.
This aspect is also experienced/reported by wankelpilots, premixing 1:85 conform manufacturers specification.
08-10-2012, 02:37 PM
#3500
Registered
Read the thread or at least some of it. You don't *need* it but many people do like to do it for some extra protection. Also make sure you understand you do not want to premix with engine oil, people are talking about 2 cycle oil. Don't just buy some random 2 cycle and start using it read and make sure you get the right one. I use lucas semi-synthetic 2 cycle but that is the best I can get locally. If you are willing to order some then you can buy premix specifically made for a rotary by idemitsu.