ReversedNormals

I am currently getting a new engine for my 04 from Mazda. I am going to start premixing after I get it back. After reading through the first and last 10 pages of this GIANT thread I still have a few questions.

1. I have decided to try either the AMSOIL Saber or the Interceptor. I like the idea that the Interceptor is designed to remove carbon, but no one seems to have an opinion on it yet. Anyone? Also interested in an answer to ganseg's question above.

2. I will probably use a bit of the FP+ in my mix as well, but I haven't found out what that product's full name is or where to find it.

3. And finally is there any reason I should wait to add premix until I've broken in the new engine?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Great website. I've already taken advantage of the Spark Plug Change DIY and the temperature **** DIY fix.

plain ole wanker

I can answer 2 & 3
2.http://lcdinc.zoovy.com/product/FPPL...ne_gallon.html
3. NO do not wait

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Here is one post on Break-in. Also, monitor your oil usage and your spark plugs. If your spark plugs are getting black, you might reduce the premix slightly. If I ever get a new engine under warranty, I will be switching to a Sohn adapter so that the oil going into combustion is designed to burn.

Quote from thread on breakin: Here's what I gathered from the site back when I was a noob. I'm going with the Japanese Rotary Mechanic's procedure (whoever he is). Racing Beat's procedure seems too conservative and the ???? procedure (I don't remember who posted it) is too aggressive for me. The mechanic's is middle of the road and seems reasonable. Enjoy!


RACING BEAT procedure
- For the first 1000 miles (1609km) do not accelerate under full throttle.
- During the first 1000 miles (1609km) do not exceed 4000 RPM.
- For miles 1000-2000 (3218km), expand the RPM upwards - but do not accelerate at full throttle.
- Over 2000 miles (3218km), full throttle and high RPM is acceptable.

Japanese Rotary Mechanic Procedure
0-600 (965.4km) Follow the Manual, but keep it under 4000
600-800 (1287.2km)Open it up a bit, vary accelerations and speed RPM < 5000
800-1000 Drive the car, enjoy it but still keep RPM's < 6000
1000-1250 (2011km) Drive it as it's powercurve intended it to be
RPM's < 7000
1250-1500 (2413.5km) Test the car frequently from RPM's 6000-9000 in
every gear
> 1500 Drive it anyway you want, U DA MAN NOW!!!!!!

????? procedure
0-100 miles 4000 rpm
100-200 miles 4500 rpm
200-300 miles 5000 rpm
300-400 miles 5500 rpm
400-500 miles 6000 rpm
500-600 miles 6500 rpm
600-700 miles 7000 rpm
700-800 miles 7500 rpm

Nubo

I just changed plugs this weekend, with about 20-25K miles on them, and regular premix with MMO at around 6 oz per fill-up. I was pleasantly surprised that there was no sign whatsoever of excessive Carbon on the plugs. Just the normal bit of "rotary ash" deposits, which were light to medium tan, center insulators were tan as well. In fact, these looked much better than previous sets of plugs before I had begun pre-mixing, and with about twice the miles on the plugs too.

RX8.PIPE.DREAMS

iTrader: (1)

This seems to be a great thread but has anyone had any concerns about damaging their catalytic converters? I live in CA and seems like some other people do too, last thing for me would be having to replace cat due to damage from premix and not passing CA smog, the toughest state to pass emissions!

swoope

iTrader: (5)

many have those concerns.. as many have worries about fuel pump issues..



beers

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

MMO has a lot of cleaners in it. I wouldn't be surprised if it cleans more than it lubricates.

jmc23200

MMO has been taken out of my premixing routine. I now use Idemitsu and FP+. I'm going to experimenting with 4-7 oz of idemitsu to 1 oz FP+. See if there is a magical number with the idemitsu.

MMO is mostly cleaner. I am now doubting its lube properties. Although MMO would probably be good on a high mileage 8 that didn't get treated properly or using up one quart a year as general cleaning, I wouldn't use it as a DD premix anymore. I mainly used it only because I could find it everywhere. I just bought a case of idemitsu and will make sure I order another before I am out. MMO as a DD, no. MMO as a cleaner once a year, sounds good to me. <-- This is my opinion. Some people swear by it. After some discussion in this thread, I no longer swear by it because I can't find any information to really back it up.

As long as you use the proper premix, you cats life will be about average. Using the incorrect premix can cause premature cat failure. Look back a few pages as it has been discussed a hundred times.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Idemitsu only here

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

I think we should start a thread of premix only and premix plus cleaner starting with fresh plugs and see how they appear after 300 or more miles. I can do either the premix or premix plus cleaner. Anyone else interested? If you had new plugs a while back but have done the same premix routine ever since, that should work.

My circumstance is that I went to hotter plugs so that will be one variable. Temperatures in your area will be another. Driving style will be another...

jmc23200

The best test subjects would be those who have a very routine day where the drive the same amount almost every day or on average. Also, you might want to extend the plug check to 3 month/3,000 miles with maybe monthly updates. I've driven about 300 miles over the weekend and that may not be adequate time for proper results.

I don't think there will be any major difference between premix and premix w/ cleaner. I use 1 oz of cleaner per 10 gallons of gas. Now, if the premix you are using is a heavy cleaner, like MMO, then you might see a difference.

The best thing to do would be to do both tests on ONE car. This would give the most accurate results.


EDIT: We can use multiple cars, but depending on engine health, the results may be skewed. Also, what premixes do you want to test? What cleaners?

Nubo

I'm hoping for some of both, and keeping in mind it is in addition to the OMP output. This engine can die early from Carbon buildup just as much as it can from wear, so we are treading a fine line. I figure what oil MMO does have, increases the volume of lube on the housing, mixing with the OMP output, which then gets distributed by movement, while the solvents hopefully keep the Carbon at least loose enough to not let the seals become impacted.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

After some sobering realizations I've come to this conclusion.

Our engines, fuels, and driving habits all have way to many variables to say what works and what doesn't.

In California we have 91 octane in Pennsylvania 93 octane. some people prefer chevron some people prefer shell some people prefer Mobil. In California we sit in stop and go traffic for hours and hours in 90 degree weather. Colorado there's snow and freezing conditions. Texas its humid and hot.

There's lots of data that has been collected and its all essentially bs. some people lose compression at 50k, some people lose compression at 150k, some people have blown their engine in 1500 miles, some people are to scared to go to 9k. every engine is different and unique with different clearances on seals and other parts.

Just do what you want try out a bunch of different premixes and combination's if you think its working for you then by all means go ahead and do that.

But to assume that there is one magical cure and combination of amsoil idemitsu etc with fp+ or MMO or anything else is just insane.

jmc23200

The problem here is that MMO is like 70%+ cleaner. One can assume that the cleaner will heavily out way the lubricating properties and do to all the cleaners, MMO may actually start to remove some of the oil film on the rotors. <-- Opinion, not fact. No body really knows what MMO is exactly and no one has used solely MMO for the entire life span of a rotary and then disassembled it to look at the wear. However, with that being said, it has a long history and tons of people have had great results. I can't knock the product, but at the same time I can't promote the product.


Not necessarily. Although you make a valid point that everyones car and environment is different, EVERYONE can use the same premix and cleaner and not have a problem. Idemitsu has excellent lubricating properties. Are you going to say that extra lube is a bad thing? Of course not. The amount to use and what cleaner may be the general difference as I have not found a "cleaner" specifically made for a rotary to be run in the gas tank every time you fill up.

I guess you are technically correct saying that there isn't one magical cure. That is because there is a whole list to choose from. Any Good Quality Synthetic Premix will do the trick. I'm sure that everyone who is using MMO, Amsoil Saber Pro, Protek-R, and so on would be just as well off using Idemitsu and vice versa, except for MMO as I am unsure.

Nubo

Actually I think the percentage is 30% solvents (cleaner), and 70% light oil (along with a good dose of phosphorus, and a little dichloro-benzene. But I can't disagree with the rest of your argument; I have no idea what's really going on in there or what the apex seals really "want" or need. I have a hunch that that the life of that esoteric interface is as much art as science, even to Mazda engineers. Witness the term "Devil's Fingernails"!


The MMO approach seemed to address both RX-8 shortcomings (need for additional lube, Carbon control), at least conceptually. And since it has had a long history in the rotary community (and also light aircraft) the chance of it causing catastrophic damage seemed small. Is it "the best stuff on earth"? Who knows. At some point you take your best shot and see how it goes.

jmc23200

^hehe my numbers were only a bit off Yeah, it's 30% solvent and about 70% 2w comparable oil.

2w oil + mineral spirits = < 2w oil

Is 2w or < 2w oil efficient enough or should a heavier premix be needed?

There are too many questions that we cannot get an answer too. Just as a comparison, the S2 with the extra injector is lubing with a minimum of 5w20. Do we want to use anything less? What is idemitsu's viscosity? Protek-R's? Amsoil Saber Pro?

plain ole wanker

^ they MMO claims it's 5w

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Idemitsu

http://www.ilacorp.com/images/web_premix.pdf

Amsoil (better IMO)

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx

jmc23200

Claims and reality are two different things. Compare a 5w oil with MMO. MMO is thin.

jmc23200

I'll take something that was specifically designed and tested on a rotary then something that fits the application. Not to mention a case of Amsoil is double the price of Idemitsu.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Designed and tested specifically on Rotaries? Really? Where is the testing? They were just smart enough to label their already existing 2 stroke as Rotary specific early on. I'm not knocking it but the Rotary specific claims are BS marketing IMO. Good stuff none the less.

jmc23200

1991 LeMans ...... enough said

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

Tested on rotarys would be testing on all wankels?, like my snowmobile (i run legendZX-2SR) Sachs single-rotor air-cooled rotary wich runs the same but very different from a liquid cooled 4cy renessis.
Testing would be done in a controlled environment pertaining elements it has to surpass. Science ****. not rotary only.
20hp anyone?

jmc23200

I'm just trying to spark a debate

Any good synthetic premix will work fine. Depends on what you want to spend and what YOU like. After 91 pages, each owner should be able to become educated and pick what they like.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Nothing wrong with Amsoil. If you want to initiate a debate then provide reasons why you think it is not worthy.