olddragger

iTrader: (3)

after some calculations in trying to determine what exactly is the oil/gas ratio inside the combustion chamber during the adverage track usage, I was a little shocked.
I was pre mixing at 1oz per gallon.
Long story short--it came out to about 50/1---- if you added what the omp was injecting.
Since then I have cut back on how much I put in the tank.
In my case ( forced inducted) too much oil in the combustion chamber is not a good thing.

SF69

The premix oil/gas ratio that I am using, and the types of oil, are working just good IN MY CASE.
So many factors must be considered to know wich premix would work good for you.
-Climate temp.
-Type of usage (city driving, track driving, 70/30, etc)
-Using a MOP OR NOT
-Using a cat. Or not

I posted my own personal experience with my 8, but I do not have the last word.
For example, I live South of the border, and the ambient temp is between 20 to 26 Celsius, o am at
1,500 mts. ASL, and it works for me because the 8 gets really hot when many times in the red line.
Anyway,IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, I THINK 50:1 premix with a mop is too much. Check your plugs. 50:1 ratios are specially good with 2 strokes engines.
In Racing Beat page, they suggest to use mineral Castrol oil 20W50.

Regards.

Iluvrevs

I swear I saw a post from a couple years ago by StealthTL picturing a bottle of Klotz, but can’t hack it out of the search now. Can someone tell me what product of Klotz the ProtekR is?

Thank you

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Nope, wasn't me, never heard of Klotz......

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Thats about what I was using at the track. Injections rates for loads over 100 are high and over 200 are really high. I had mine turned down a little and premixed about 2oz for every 3 gallons.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I thought of that--but I decided that the side seals need as much help as they can get so I left my omp settings where they are. The apex seals seem to be holding up kinda ok --as long as cooling isnt an issue? Thats my reason for just cutting back on the pre mix ratio. IDK really--just guessing with whatever lodgic i have

Protek R is great pre mix. Proven. I have heard it is just a rebranded oil --but after buying a liter (1.05 quarts) of Motul 800 for almost $20 at the local motorcycle shop, I much rather buy a GALLON of Protek R for $50, from Pettit. Ordering some today as a matter of fact.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

That's why I only turned it down a little.

1 gallon for $50?? Wow, pricey. I can send you 12 quarts (3 gallons) of idemitsu for $80.

Iluvrevs

1 gallon for $50?? Wow, pricey. I can send you 12 quarts (3 gallons) of idemitsu for $80.[/quote]

That’s why I was looking at Klotz who I understand makes the ProtekR for their branded variant, its not cheap. I thought about the Idemitsu but the ProtekR and Klotz options promise zero deposits from their synthetic bases and the FP and viscosity are much higher than the Idemitsu. I’m not sure that matters, but with my limited experience in the rotary it makes sense to me to have a premix that will have a longer life during the combustion event and higher viscosity to hold up under the heat in the combustion environment. I’m certainly open to being schooled though.

Stealth, sorry to errantly remember it was you that made that post. Probably due to your lubricant tribology expertise.

Olddragger, something else to consider is if an operator is running Shell branded fuels. The Shell fuel additive is also a subtle lubrication benefit. Amine I believe.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Idemitsu makes rotary oils, thats it. I think they might know a thing or two about what a rotary needs.

I dont think any oil is going to hold up to the 1200-1600 degree combustion enviroment.

Iluvrevs

But, if an oil can’t survive the combustion event what protects the apex and housing subsequent to the event?

REDRX3RX8

The omp dribbles it in at the cool oil temp of 200 degrees or less if it comes in the fuel.

The intake is the coolest part of the engine on top. When the mixture is compressed to the ign point which is maybe the hottest point of the metal, the oil slicks it up for that compression, and then is burned off in the hot combustion gases.

Its a once through oil, so it only needs to be oily, and burn clean without too much deposit. Some 2 stroke guys have to chisel carbon off the pistons and exhaust ports, so the burn clean part is the most important.

If you follow those ATV and snowmobile guys, they've already done lots of free R & D on the subject.

Iluvrevs

I get that but what I’m not getting is what lubricating mechanism is protecting the housings and apex seal subsequent to the combustion event, i.e. post compression through exhaust movement of the rotor?

40w8

Ok, I get what you mean now.

You're saying : with the compression, ignition, and high temp spike at TDC on the plugs, how does the rest of the cycle through the exhaust get lubed?

All of the rich mixture doesn't completely burn on the cycle, the corners of all the seals are still cooler, and I think hold some of that oil for more than one cycle.

I use 1/2 quart mo from omp in 2k miles, and I put in one quart premix during that 2k miles approx.

That is about 25,000 firings or complete revolutions per ounce of oil on my less reving 6 spd auto.

I think the oil lasts for more than one revolution, since even some gas is unburned or we would need a lot more.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i think i remember reading that the surface of the rotor has oil retention properties?

PhillipM

The surface of the plates and housings do too, hence the finish. Anyway, there's enough boundary layer solid lube in most oils to survive a fair few cycles - it takes a while to burn off when it's condensed on the walls anyway.

Iluvrevs

Ah, ok thanks guys. Thought there was something to the effect you 3 spoke of, but wasn’t totally certain of exact methodologies. So, there might be make sense to use a premix that was more thermally stable like the synthetics from Klotz/ProtekR under more demanding conditions such as track use I’m thinking. Then again the dynamics and the current mechanical technologies in use by Mazda may be sufficient.

40w8

Any oil used for premix will burn off, and synthetic may or may not last a few more revs.

A good premix should have very good lubricity qualities, and maybe most important not turn into hard carbon deposits.

Nubo

Combustion doesn't completely consume the oil film on the relatively cool housing. Think of the surface of a Kool-Aid pitcher at a picnic on a scorching hot summer day.

Munchy

iTrader: (2)

I've been adding premix to my car since about 42,000 kms. I'm now at 73,000 kms. My "ritual" is 4 oz of Indemitsu and 1 oz of FP+ per every full tank fill up. I'm still running the stock OMP.

Now I'm finally running out of both premix and FP+, so I'm looking perhaps for an alternative as getting Indemitsu to Canada is quite pricey.

Can anyone suggest another premix oil?

After skimming through the thread, I see that some use Motul 710 (more expensive than ordering in Indemitsu) and Amsoil Interceptor.

Any other "proven" suggestions?

Thanks!

Then again I'm considering cutting out the premixing all together... Car is a daily driver, not a track car.

spacecoast

Noticed when checking price on idemitsu premix at Mazdatrix that it listed this warning:

Note! Do NOT use with ethanol or ethanol based fuels!

PeteInLongBeach

That's the first I've noticed that disclaimer on their website. I don't think the Idemitsu bottle has that disclaimer. Anyway, I don't think the fuel we would normally encounter here could be described as "ethanol" or ethanol-based. This probably pertains to countries with high percentages of ethanol in their fuel. Might want to call Mazdatrix and ask what this really refers to, as they aren't being very clear about it.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

long known fact that most oils do not mix well with ethanol---or any alcohol. There are some oils made to mix with alcohol--but they are rare.
At 10% ethanol--dont think its anything to be concerned about. Now if you convert to E85--yep.

YUL PHL

iTrader: (1)

stupid nube question here.

been experiencing throttle hesitation problems @ below 3k. car has 47kmiles. just changed plugs, coils, wires

will be doing injectors tomorrow.

do i need to disconnect my cat the first time i run a tank of premix? and reconnect at the 2nd?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

no...where did you get that idea

now a good idea would be to disconnect the cat and take a peek inside to see if it is blown apart, and if that is the source of your lack of power.

YUL PHL

iTrader: (1)

nah. tech said cat was still fine.

hoping new injectors and cleaned out SSV will take care of it