Speedy400

No. But I think you meant meant does synthetic cause concern about gaskets. No.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I think he was talking about the old engines, after years of use the gasket will crack, if the user use nothing but dino oil, the sludge builds up will actually *filled in the gap* so the engine still works fine, but as soon as you dump Synthetic in it, the Synthetic will *Clean* the sludges out then you'll have a leak.

Anand

I read somewhere that full synthetic won't shrink em if it even was a concern.

What about the oil pump? Does it recalibrate itself to different oil weights or is there any potential issue there? Maybe the US/Canada flashes program the oil pump for 5w20, even though its 5w30 everywhere else.

I don't know much about these components and that is why I'm a little hesitant to switch.

Anand

Well I just bought a case of RP 5w30....Decided against the Redline cuz its more expensive. I talked to a mazda tech today at the local dealership and he said it was perfectly fine to use synthetic oil.

SpIcEz

Just wanted to give a heads up that I hunted down a 4L jug of Esso XD-3 Extra Gold Label (the Synthetic one) and did a oil change.

This stuff is smooth.

0w40

I can see why Stealth loves it.

Seems even smoother than the last oil change, now, obviously, it always feels like that after an oil change, but still.

I did my research on BITOG and it really does seem like people are raving about this stuff.

Only 22.50$ for 4L ( thats just shy of 4 pints) at WallMart.

Though I had to go to 4 wall marts to find one and it was their last one

I'll keep hunting and try and keep at least one in storage.

I'll keep you guys posted on the long term results.

V1.0

After taking the pre-mix plunge, I figured why not the synthetic oil as well. So I got myself some Royal Purple 5W-30 and will be attempting to change it out tomorrow. It's got 5366 on it now so if this helps in anyway, which after reading about the many poeple who use sin, why not me in my second 8, right?

Wish me luck, I need it, no really...I need it!!!

rx8 boy

can i usethe semi synthetic oil for my rx8?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

You can use anything you want, as long as its at least SL grade.

If you ask me, I will recommend you to go with at least 5 or 0w-30, True Full synthetic like PAO or Ester (Group IV or V), and SL grade. Try not to get SM grade oils. Even tho its a newer standard, sometimes newer does NOT mean its better.

Im going to get myself some 0w-40 Mobil1 or 5w-40 or 10w-40 Redline or Royal Purple either today or later this week.

rx8 boy

SL?
oh...mobil1 is that good?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I dont want to confuse you, cuz it seems that u're another one of those people who will never bother to find answers on their own.

Just walk into any Auto parts store, and ask for "I want some 5w30 Full Synthetic oil"

Thats it. (even tho it might not be true Full synthetic, but lets not worry about that)

rotarygod

People are way too paranoid about oils being bad. Here's a very simple truth. As long as you have oil in your engine, pick one, it'll probably be fine. What will the ultimate long term benefits to a better oil be? We'll just have to wait and see based on results of others.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Totally agree RG --totally agree--especially on this engine in which we are constantly adding oil and changing q 3K
olddragger

rotarygod

I do have an interesting thing to share in regards to longterm oil use. The past weekend Brillo and I swapped out the engine in my 2000 Civic with a new (er) one. It lost compression on cylinder 1. It had 183,000 miles on it anyways. The issue was from a coupler on the intake having a rip in it. I'm not sure how long it was there but when I finally saw it there was sand and other dirt and debris in my intake manifold. Damage done. That was about 50K ago too so I knew at some point it would catch up with me. Basically what happened is that the dirt slowly sanded down the cylinder walls, rings, and valve seats so it wouldn't seal as well anymore and hence not develop good compression. All cylinders were low but 2,3 and 4 were within acceptable tolerances of each other. Cylinder 1 was half of the others and the source of the problem.

Now that I've got the reason out of the way, we swapped everything including the transmission. When it was all out of the car, I cleaned everything perfectly. I've run Royal Purple in that engine since the very beginning so well over 180,000 miles. I know it's on a piston engine and not a rotary but that's what makes what I saw even more important.

As we all know the rotary uses oil metering to send some oil through the combustion chamber whereas a piston engine does not. We all know that rotaries suffer from carbon buildup. When I pulled my intake manifold off, I noticed that it was heavily carboned up. I had to spray it down with Castrol Superclean and scrub with a toothbrush for a long time to get it all out. High amounts of carbon in a piston engine intake manifold. Now here's the interesting part. I wanted to see what the oil pan looked like. Remember I've used RP for the entire engine's life. The result was amazing. The oil pan had ZERO sludge built up in it. None. There was a very thin layer of varnish in the pan but that was it. No debris or sludge whatsoever. Nothing. This was after 183,000 miles. My intake manifold had more buildup in it than the oil pan did!

When I went to clean the oil pan, it was very easy. I sprayed it down with superclean first. When I hit it with a hose, half of all the varnish came off cleanly leaving only a perfectly clean surface behind it. This was without any scrubbing. The rest needed a very light scrub with a toothbrush but that was it. That was a huge test result as it showed longterm buildup which wasn't there. I was impressed.

The new engine has been "remanufactured" and is getting broken in for 1000 miles with Havoline 5W30. I'll drive it hard for 20 miles and change the oil and filter. I'll drive it easy until 500 miles and change the oil and filter. I'll drive it moderately sporty until 1000 miles and then change the oil and filter. At this point RP will go in. BTW I only use Wix oil filters. Apparently they work good too!

Just thought you guys might find the lack of any buildup after 183,000 miles interesting. Had my intake tube not had that rip in it I'm convinced that engine could have just kept going and going for a long time to come. It did prove that the oil wasn't the cause of my engine's demise. It did it's job wonderfully.

Altair 8

let's end this discussion with pure chemistry for once and in layman's terms...

wiki and know fact: "When synthetic oil is made as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum, it is generally to provide superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils."
Synthetic Base Stocks

Synthetic motor oils have been made from the following classes of lubricants:

* Polyalphaolefin (PAO) = American Petroleum Institute (API) Group IV base oil
* Synthetic esters, etc = API Group V base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyolesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkyklated benzenes, etc.)
* Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005 production of GTL (Gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began. The best of these perform much like polyalphaolefin. Group III base stocks are considered synthetic motor oil ONLY in the United States. [1]. Group III based lubricants are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" in any market outside of the USA.

Advantages

The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:

* Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance[citation needed]
* Better chemical & shear stability
* Decreased evaporative loss[citation needed]
* Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
* Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.[citation needed]
* Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.[citation needed]
* Better lubrication on cold starts


Disadvantages

The disadvantages of synthetic motor oils include:

* Initial costs are usually four times greater than petroleum-based oils, though at one time, man-made oils cost ten times more than petroleum[citation needed]. Initial costs are often mitigated by extended change intervals, which individuals may confirm through used oil analysis (UOA).
* The lower friction may make them unsuitable for break-in (i.e. the initial run-in period of the vehicle) where friction is desirable to cause wear. Improved engine part machining has made break-in less critical than it once was though. Many modern cars now come with synthetic oil as a factory fill.
* Potential decomposition problems in certain chemical environments (industrial use dominantly)
* Potential stress cracking of plastic components like POM (polyoxymethylene) in the presence of PAOs (polyalphaolefins).
* Potential on some older pushrod race engines with roller lifters for the roller itself not to spin with camshaft movement, but rather slide while the roller itself remains either stationary or at a lower circumferential speed than that of the camshaft lobe[citation needed]
* In July 1996, Consumer Reports published the results of a two year motor oil test involving a fleet of 75 New York taxi cabs and found no noticeable advantage of synthetic oil over regular oil[2]. In their article, they noted that "Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service - stop-and-go city driving." According to their study, synthetic oil is "worth considering for extreme driving conditions: high ambient temperatures and high engine load, or very cold temperatures." [3] This research was criticized by some because most engine damage appears to be caused by cold starts, and their research method may not have included enough cold starts to be representative of personal vehicle use.[4]"

learycd

iTrader: (1)

ive been reading through, and as the weekend autocrosser im thinking 5W30 would be the way to go. its also my daily driver so i think a 5W40 would be a little heavy. ive been running 5W20 for the last 3000 miles and im not exactly comfortable beating on my car on the weekends with a low wieght

what do you guys think?

neXib

I think that when they give Americans 100,000 mile warranty on the engine and America is the only territory using 5W20 that people should add two and two together, and use 5W30 just in case. You don't need to tell your dealer...

Almost first thing I did when I got my car from the US was to go to my dealer and say put in what you normally put in. Which here in Norway is Mazdas own 5W30. (expensive as heck though)

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Nah, there are still people believe that "Mazda knows best of their engines, do you think they will recommend something that might effect longevity of the engine?*

Oh yes I do think so, afterall Mazda is a Business. In order to "do business" in USA, there are "stupid" rules that they need to follow(or reach).

o well. What do I know ? I aint the Know-It-All

eddybear

I heard from a Local mazda tech that there is a fundamental reason about Synthetic not being good for our vehicles because it does not burn well with the petrol?

Can someone translate what that means...

Additionally, I live in Jamaica and we get temps of like 35-40 deg C in summer ... I see where people experimenting with the 40 and 50.... What's everyone's take on that ?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Your local Mazda tech still living in his past.

Ignore him and use at least 10w40 for your area, or just use 20w50.

ChainRotary

Well I found all the discussion useful and started running idemitsu premix at 128 miles, and just did my first oil change at 1040 miles with RP 5w30. Thought about 10w40, and might go there next summer, but I'll stay with the 5w30 for now and during the winter. But full synth all the way for me.

Thanks to all the big guys for the guidance and discussion.

While I'm here, nycgps - whats your local nyc source for redline oil? I could only find RP locally, and I don't really want to go to the trouble of mail order just for oil. I'm in Princeton, but I don't care about a little drive if I can find redline.

eddybear

Ironically, I keep hearing the same thing from Mazda Techs... last one i checked was Montgomery Mazda and they're like .. .Oh NOooo dont use Synthetic at all unless it is specially formulated for Rotaries.

The only persons I hear say use it are on the forums, oh so torn.......

Montgomery Mazda people also said dont pass 10w30... so here we go again... confused

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

There are a few shops in NYC sells Redline oil, but they're crazily overpriced (like what 12 bux per quart? gtfo)

so I just mail order mine.

RP could be found at Pepboys for like 6.99 per quart I think. which is still too much IMO.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

They cant recommend anything else, they dont want to get sue.

I use 10w40 now. bite me

Nubo

At some point I would think that time would take care of this debate. I mean, people using synthetic in their 2004's since the beginning, so going on 5 years now... At some point the taboo just can't hold up.

But then I look at RX7CLUB and I see the same debate still goes on!!

ChainRotary

Nod, nod. I hit pepboys. I'm not crazy about redline's prices....