05rx8mazda

iTrader: (4)

I have been using royal purple for 20K miles already and its been running FINE!

only thing is my gas mileage dropped by like 20-30 miles per tank after switching from 5w-20 to 5w-30 iono i used tog et like 190-210 to a fulle tank im the city and now im down to 170-180 int he city. ont he highway i get over 300 to a full tank.

a little over a quarter left in the tank leaves me at exactly 279 on the odometer

instead or arguing about motor oil change the same tranny oil and differential oil.. at 43 K miles that has given me more poweer than my intake alone haha..

my differential oil looked liek mud!

i put redline 75-90 gear oil i think GOOD STUFF

rotarygod

Did you type that drunk?

05rx8mazda

iTrader: (4)

naah man i aint high

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Why dont you try to switch it back to 5w20 and see what happens ?

Cuz I think you're high right now.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

anyone need a towel????


beers

Rai

Hi,
could please someone tell is it ok to use Kroon oil:

http://www.kroon-oil.com/uk/products...odelid=110965#

Wich is better Asyntho 5W30 class API SL/CF or Presteza LL 5W30 class ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4?

muythaibxr

Hrmm, I just went to the dealer for the latest TSB, and decided to let them change my oil today since I was there, and it'd save me the time. I brought Royal Purple 5w20, and told them to use it. About 20 minutes later, the Service Manager came into the waiting area, and told me that I'm not supposed to use synthetic in that car, and started hinting that he would void my warranty. He didn't do it, but gave me a very stern warning against using synthetic.

Strange. He actually seemed scared when he came to tell me.

Ken

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Which dealership u been to? Cuz I want to give that dealership and MNAO a call so that dealership can fired that dude's ***.

shaunv74

^^That is the policy though. Why would you expect anything different?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Policy of giving BS?

If its me, I will tell him to go ahead and try to void my warranty, but I'll tell him straight up that, wait for my attorney's letter, oh MNAO will get one too. It does not cost me a penny to get a lawyer, its great to have friends in da business

sosonic

With synthetics, it's less likely to break down due to extreme heat. There were a bunch of people in hot and desert areas having major problems. If dino 5W20 breaks down, than you are f*cked. A synthetic is less likely to do that and stay 5W20 or 5W30 longer in extreme conditions.

You probably can extend your oil changes with a good synthetic to 5K. However, you should have a long life oil filter like say Amsoil's oil filter and change the oil filter when you change your oil.

Money wise, the slight extension of oil change intervals, should allow the synthetic to pay for itself. You also get a better protected engine from wear and heat, therefore there is another cost benefit.

As for the carbon debate. Synthetics burn cleaner. Another point is that you are going to have the carbon issue with dino or synthetic. I think the RX-8 new engine design and OMP demonstrates a flaw in the older/present engines.

We are caught in a catch-22. We need additional lubrication (which opens up the whole pre-mix debate), but we have carbon build up issues. The only solutions that I see to address both is Redline SI-1 gas additive that lubricates and cleans and Gumout has a lubricating and cleaning gas additive (but for every 3,000 miles).

It appears to me that the present RX-8 needs a better performing lubricant, like 0W30 synthetic. 0W, because it protects better at engine startup and not just when its cold. If you are worried about carbon build up, than I think you redline your engine every once in a while to get rid of it and/or use a lubricating carbon cleaner additive.

I think the cost benefit analysis is offset by what is best to keep your engine in good shape and the fun of pushing your car performance wise. Running 5W20 dino, to me, is dangerous unless you live in a moderate climate (not too hot), don't push your engine too hard (wear and tear protection), and have some alternate method to clean out the eventual carbon build up that will come from playing granny on the engine. These considerations are why in Japan, the Mazda dealers were putting 5W30 Castrol synthetic (by the way, Castrol now makes 0W30 too) into the RX-8s and the famous RX-8 Pro-Tuners (Re-Amemiya, R-Magic, Knight Sports, etc...) not only put synthetic in the RX-8, but even sold their own brand of synthetic oil for the RX-8s.

Nubo

rotarygod

Ken don't EVER tell a dealership that you run synthetic!!!!! Don't take synthetic to them. If you change it yourself and they ask you what you used, do not say synthetic!!! Remember, if a dealer asks you what oil you use, the default answer should ALWAYS be, "I use what the owners manual recommends". I don't care if it's an honest answer or not. That's just what you say. That's the default answer for ANY dealer question regarding maintenance.

muythaibxr

They didn't put the royal purple in anyway. Honestly I didn't even think about it when I took it there...

I would've been fine if they just said "no we won't put it in" and let that the be the end of it, but instead it looks like they took 4 quarts of my oil, and put in theirs, and tried to play it off like they didn't do that. That's what I'm more pissed about.

In any case, I'm going back there to get my oil... they're still saying they didn't do what I think they did, but I would think that since the oil itself is actually purple, I should be able to see that on the dipstick when I check it (the dipstick looks the same as it always does. Am I wrong here? Shouldn't the oil on the dipstick look like what I put in?)

I'm sure they didn't void my warranty. I just asked them and they said since it's the correct grade and has the right specs (API Service SM or SL or whatever it was), they won't void the warranty whether they put it in or not.

Ken

rotarygod

The purple color goes away very quickly after the engine is warmed up. You'll never notice it on the dipstick. At least not for very long.

muythaibxr

Ahh, ok, so maybe they did put it in. I've never used royal purple in any of my other engines (Castrol GTX or Mobil 1 in my piston engines, Castrol GTX in my rx7 engine), so I didn't know that. Good to know.

I'll definitely not be taking it in for oil changes anymore, I'll just do it myself like I always have. I just got lazy yesterday since I already had the car at the dealer. They didn't void my warranty anyway... Lesson learned (I never really dealt with dealers much b/c I previously just did all my own work).

Ken

DaBatMan

ok... i've read through like the first 18 pages of this discussion and it's just a bunch of back and foward. i understand both sides of "The Great Oil Debate" but still haven't decided one way or the other. (well, in a way i have... will stick with what my bible (manual) says while under warranty.) however... i am and have always been a synthetic believer... for conventional engines i might add, but i do not want to screw this renesis up one way or the other.

i understand that the materials the o-rings are made with are better than previous rotary designs however i've yet to read (throught the 18 or so pages of this thread) where anyone with long term use of synthetic could post results that would make me ok with using synthetic oil. i've read things like (the O-Rings stand up better to synthetics) but there's still that possibility that the will break down quicker than normal using synthetics. IS THERE A ROTOR HEAD HERE WITH 100K OR MORE ON THEIR RENESIS USING JUST SYNTHETIC OIL??? i've seen one member switch to synthetic at like 150k and it seems like everyone else is under 50k using synthetic. i'm more interested in the long term effect on this engine... since mazda has yet to do a long term test.

forgive me if it was posted in pages 20-24 but it's been about one week that i've been trying to read this post while at work and as i mentioned it's just a lot of back and foward.

BTW... currently running castrol GTX 5w20 religiously and will go to 5w30 during the hot a$$ summers here in florida.

shaunv74

^^ Search Expo1's renesis rebuild thread. There is some good discussion and tear down results from Paul at mazmart.

Jin z06

I asked my friend to order me royal purple from advanced auto cause I was being lazy...

I went in to pick it up last and I just noticed today that it was the extreme performance racing oil...

It's okay to use it right? If not, I can go back and return it; otherwise I don't want to bother.

My car is bone stock A/T and I granny drive in the mornings, highway in the afternoon, "spirited" at night.

edit:; nevermind im an idiot. i just read the royal purple website

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

if u're looking for *true* Synthetic, Castrol Syntec 0w30 is the ONLY true Synthetic oil outa the whole Syntec line. All other ones are Hydrocracked oil.

Motul is pretty good. Although I had no experience in it.

RP might not be available in your area, but u can always order it online ! I found that it cost about 6 something including shipping.

oh also u can always try Redline oil.

rotarygod

Hydrocracking is not a natural process hence it is synthetic. That's what makes a synthetic and synthetic, not what it's made from originally. Therefore a hydrocracked oil is a synthetic. It's like saying a woman who gets pregnant through artificial insemination has a synthetic baby. The term synthetic describes a process.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I know. but the thing is that there is a reason that its still not a true Synthetic

I think its illegal to call those oil Synthetic in some (if not all) EU countries.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I don't consider hydrocracked oil to be synthetic.

I work in a refinery that has one of the world's biggest hydrocrackers - every drop of oil goes thru it, but nobody considers all the diesel, jet and gasoline to be 'synthetic', why just the lube oils?

All a hydrocracker does is bash some hydrogen into the molecule, lightening it and changing the H/C ratio to make it more useful - taint magic.

I consider synthetic, in the oil business, to be a constructed molecule like polyalkenes or polyalphaolefins or something that is 'not' an oil, like esters, diesters and polyolesters.

Just my point of view.......


S

rotarygod

That's the great debate about Group III's and whether or not they are synthetic.

Jax_RX8

Unfortunately whether we agree or not, the government has deemed them synthetic.

For those without the history, Mobil sued Castrol on Castrol calling Syntec a full synthetic because it was made with Group III and was not a pure Group IV (PAO) or V (Other synthetic, including mostly esters) - and at the time Mobil 1 was a pure group IV (PAO).

Eventually Castrol won the right to still call the group III-based Syntec a full synthetic, and all us consumers lost, as since Groups III's were now allowed to be called "Full Synthetic", many of the oil manufacturers have "redesigned" their synthetic oils to use either some or all Group III to save money, but still charge the premium price. That is not to say there are not some fine Group III oils out there - there are, but they are much less expensive to make and should not command the premium price that Group IV/V oils do.

Here is a partial list of some of the base oils for major brands that I know:

- Pennzoil Platinum - mostly Group III, with maybe some Group V - although a fine oil

- Mobil 1 - combo of Group III and IV, but all weights used to be pure Group IV before this lawsuit. OW40 is the only pure Group IV (PAO) left

- Castrol Syntec - Group III with may a little Group IV for certain viscosities

- Royal Purple - mostly Group IV with just a little Group III as a carrier oil for additives

- AMSOIL - 100% Group IV for the better products - XL series are Group IIIs

- Redline - Group V - and only Polyol Ester base oil, the most expensive and best Ester base oil available.



This Group III thing is what makes this whole dino/synthetic debate unnecessary as even some dino's (5W20's especially) now have some Group III base oils blended in them to meet SM specs - it is getting almost impossible with the base oil blending going on today to separate them out.




Since I have not weighed in on this Synthetic/Dino thing on the rotary yet anyways - my take on why Mazda started out avoiding Synthetics is that the original "Synthetics" were pretty much all Group IV (PAO) - and the main characteristic of these oils that took some time to overcome in the early formulations was they caused seal shrinkage instead of seal swell like dinos (groups I, II, and II+), Group III, and Group V oils do.

This seal shrinkage caused sealing issues with the gaskets between the various engine plates, causing compression issues. This issue has now been accounted for in all modern formulations with added ingredients in group IV (PAO) oils to counteract this tendency - this is also why many now like to blend group III and IV oils. This is no longer a concern and thus why it is baffling as to why Mazda has maintained this recomendation.

I do not think it ever had had to do with how clean burning synthetics were or deposits left behind, because all 4-cycles oils, independent of dino or synthetic are going to burn about the same and leave about the same amount of deposits behind with the possible exception of Group V (esters), that would be cleaner, and of no concern.

So, I think it was due to seal shrinkage issues and not all the other theories thrown out here - but who will ever know for sure.