Pettit Super Charger Owners
I don't remember
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Gonna be ragged big time on this one Denny sir.
Team is very bright and knowedgable, but as the unknown autocrosser, he just doesn't happen to be the 6 time national champion eh? I don't seem to see him on here trashing new ideas.
Team is very bright and knowedgable, but as the unknown autocrosser, he just doesn't happen to be the 6 time national champion eh? I don't seem to see him on here trashing new ideas.
I have been ragged so much i feel like a well dressed begger. This car is a hobby for me and I enjoy thinking about how I can possibily make it better. I do a fair amount of research and I am not afraid to try different things. I try to do evidence based applications to whatever idea I may have. I do tend to just throw an idea out for consideration because I thought that was one purpose of this forum. Brainstorming. Most people will discuss it, but some will just critize and throw insults with nothing to back it up. I get a lot of that.
Even Mark( Team ) is working on a new ignition system using the mercury marine coils. He was the first one to point out that the primary power wires to the coils are small and could use some upsizing if more current was going to be needed.
Granted--he is a smart guy and he knows this car in the NA form very well. I have always given him credit for that. He has not lived with forced induction on his engine like we have. Forced induction changes a lot of things and how you approach a problem may have to be a little different because of it.
So what, that I choose to increase voltage rather than increasing the dwell time ( and therefore increasing the coils duty cycle time)? My coils --the msd 8247's have multispark function up until 3K rpm and the oem dwell table is fine for them up until around 5K. If I increased the dwell in the lower rpms then my coils will be overcharged.
When you change the dwell table with the cobb it is recommended that you change it across the board. You multiply the table by whatever percentage of an increase you need. For the D 585 coils that require a 5 ms dwell the multiplier is --I believe 1.45 or so. Thats ok for them. However my coils only req 3 ms of dwell. Now Mark said that the indivual cells in the dwell table can be changed and that means that the dwell table in just the upper rpms can be changed to whatever you want. However when Jeff was here he said to not to do that because there is a safety function the pcm has in reference to this table and changing the indivual cells can mess that up.
That is why I decided to go the increased voltage way and leave the oem dwell table alone.
This way my increased current to the coils will only be there when I need it and all the functions of the ignition tables in the pcm will be intact, whatever they are.
I have been investigating and speaking with Kenne Bell, MSD and Steve Kan for the past month about this. They are all ok with this plan.
Just because Mark gave me an engine ( i was selling out and had listed my stuff for sale with a sale pending), I am not his puppy. I dont think he wants a puppy, but when he mentions this on the forum other people get that idea.
I am just getting tired of people posting that I am hopeless, have crazy ideas, won't listen, and advocating that I am just stupid.
Even Mark( Team ) is working on a new ignition system using the mercury marine coils. He was the first one to point out that the primary power wires to the coils are small and could use some upsizing if more current was going to be needed.
Granted--he is a smart guy and he knows this car in the NA form very well. I have always given him credit for that. He has not lived with forced induction on his engine like we have. Forced induction changes a lot of things and how you approach a problem may have to be a little different because of it.
So what, that I choose to increase voltage rather than increasing the dwell time ( and therefore increasing the coils duty cycle time)? My coils --the msd 8247's have multispark function up until 3K rpm and the oem dwell table is fine for them up until around 5K. If I increased the dwell in the lower rpms then my coils will be overcharged.
When you change the dwell table with the cobb it is recommended that you change it across the board. You multiply the table by whatever percentage of an increase you need. For the D 585 coils that require a 5 ms dwell the multiplier is --I believe 1.45 or so. Thats ok for them. However my coils only req 3 ms of dwell. Now Mark said that the indivual cells in the dwell table can be changed and that means that the dwell table in just the upper rpms can be changed to whatever you want. However when Jeff was here he said to not to do that because there is a safety function the pcm has in reference to this table and changing the indivual cells can mess that up.
That is why I decided to go the increased voltage way and leave the oem dwell table alone.
This way my increased current to the coils will only be there when I need it and all the functions of the ignition tables in the pcm will be intact, whatever they are.
I have been investigating and speaking with Kenne Bell, MSD and Steve Kan for the past month about this. They are all ok with this plan.
Just because Mark gave me an engine ( i was selling out and had listed my stuff for sale with a sale pending), I am not his puppy. I dont think he wants a puppy, but when he mentions this on the forum other people get that idea.
I am just getting tired of people posting that I am hopeless, have crazy ideas, won't listen, and advocating that I am just stupid.
stupid? no
crazy? maybe
over 60 you're allowed to be a little crazy
come to think of it we all have to be a little crazy to try and squeeze even more out of an already fragile engine
and since we are in THIS thread I think we all qualify
crazy? maybe
over 60 you're allowed to be a little crazy
come to think of it we all have to be a little crazy to try and squeeze even more out of an already fragile engine
and since we are in THIS thread I think we all qualify
Last edited by slvrstreak; Jun 6, 2012 at 09:01 AM.
I don't remember
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
I am just getting tired of people posting that I am hopeless, have crazy ideas, won't listen, and advocating that I am just stupid.
Don't ya even go there old man, if it wasn't for you and juan and others here, I wouldn't have the only s/c rx8 with a 6 spd auto with a woman driver kikking *** on the track in kansas and neighboring states. :0 Kinda like when MM sez if it wasn't turbo'd and had his tune it was ****, ya right. Ya keep bringing new ideas, right or wrong things will equal out.
Don't ya even go there old man, if it wasn't for you and juan and others here, I wouldn't have the only s/c rx8 with a 6 spd auto with a woman driver kikking *** on the track in kansas and neighboring states. :0 Kinda like when MM sez if it wasn't turbo'd and had his tune it was ****, ya right. Ya keep bringing new ideas, right or wrong things will equal out.
You are only crazy if you believe it....I find your ideas off the wall sometimes...but you aren't afraid to put them out there.
The more heads trying to deal with some of this stuff the better
Keep on dragging......
The more heads trying to deal with some of this stuff the better
Keep on dragging......
rev it up
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 11
From: Brisbane Australia
^^ totally agree. We need people that are willing to experiment and report so everyone can benefit from the research
I will try
I have been playing with this car for almost 9 years now---I couldnt stop if i wanted too.
In some ways I am BEGINNING to believe that this ignition system for forced induction will be better than just upgrading the coils and wires.
Let me throw my reasons out and maybe get other peoples opinions?
1- the msd 8247 coil has more output than the oem ls 2-ls 7 coils, yet only requires 3 ms dwell
2- it has multispark function below 3K rpm
3- by driving the increased out put from the coil by increasing voltage rather than dwell means the coils duty time will be less, this increases the life of the coils
4- the oem dwell tables can remain intact and since no one to the best of my knowledge has dissected what all the dwell table does ( starting etc) and why it goes flat when it does, i think that is a good thing?
5- since the oem dwell tables dont have to be changed then THIS SYSTEM CAN BE USED FOR THE S2 model to its full capacity!
6- The boost a spark is adjustable so real world results can be seen during tuning without having to reflash
7- The boost a spark can be activated by either a hobbs switch ( at 3 psi) or a vacuum switch ( for na guys) so the increased coil out put is there only when you need it. So plugs, wires and all that stuff will last longer.
8- for the extreme case the boost a spark can go to 20 volts, that much power cannot be given to the coils with dwell---not enough time. I dont know of anyone that would need that much and different coils would have to be used, but for the E 85 guys--it may be a benefit.
my wiring harness is done--i ran 16 ga multistand wire from the primary power wire to the coils ( after the capacitator/condesor) and the boost a spark is supposed to be here today.
The boost a spark has a range of 13.5 volts --to 20 volts. I will verify voltage delivery with a multi tester. I will start off at 15 volts at 3psi. I probably will not go above that until i can get on the dyno with my tuner--S Kan. My a/fs are pig rich at WOT and I will run a log of them to observe for any changes.
I wasn't aware of this before--but if the spark changes a lot in your ignition system it can actually affect your ignition timing a tad. It doesn't affect the timing that is in the tune-- it only affects how fast the complete combustion event occurs. This can mean a retune is needed to get the full benefit from the upgrade meaning more power may be on the table.
I will try to take some pics etc but its pretty straightforward.
I have been playing with this car for almost 9 years now---I couldnt stop if i wanted too.
In some ways I am BEGINNING to believe that this ignition system for forced induction will be better than just upgrading the coils and wires.
Let me throw my reasons out and maybe get other peoples opinions?
1- the msd 8247 coil has more output than the oem ls 2-ls 7 coils, yet only requires 3 ms dwell
2- it has multispark function below 3K rpm
3- by driving the increased out put from the coil by increasing voltage rather than dwell means the coils duty time will be less, this increases the life of the coils
4- the oem dwell tables can remain intact and since no one to the best of my knowledge has dissected what all the dwell table does ( starting etc) and why it goes flat when it does, i think that is a good thing?
5- since the oem dwell tables dont have to be changed then THIS SYSTEM CAN BE USED FOR THE S2 model to its full capacity!
6- The boost a spark is adjustable so real world results can be seen during tuning without having to reflash
7- The boost a spark can be activated by either a hobbs switch ( at 3 psi) or a vacuum switch ( for na guys) so the increased coil out put is there only when you need it. So plugs, wires and all that stuff will last longer.
8- for the extreme case the boost a spark can go to 20 volts, that much power cannot be given to the coils with dwell---not enough time. I dont know of anyone that would need that much and different coils would have to be used, but for the E 85 guys--it may be a benefit.
my wiring harness is done--i ran 16 ga multistand wire from the primary power wire to the coils ( after the capacitator/condesor) and the boost a spark is supposed to be here today.
The boost a spark has a range of 13.5 volts --to 20 volts. I will verify voltage delivery with a multi tester. I will start off at 15 volts at 3psi. I probably will not go above that until i can get on the dyno with my tuner--S Kan. My a/fs are pig rich at WOT and I will run a log of them to observe for any changes.
I wasn't aware of this before--but if the spark changes a lot in your ignition system it can actually affect your ignition timing a tad. It doesn't affect the timing that is in the tune-- it only affects how fast the complete combustion event occurs. This can mean a retune is needed to get the full benefit from the upgrade meaning more power may be on the table.
I will try to take some pics etc but its pretty straightforward.
Last edited by olddragger; Jun 7, 2012 at 08:23 AM.
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Ive been throwing around an idea. I have a list of things it may benefit but i wanted to get opinions from others. Im thinking of adding center exhaust ports in the aluminium housings (not rx7 housings). Ive seen rx7 housings being used before but i dont like how wide the ports are. I figure it would relieve some of the heat going to the factory ports. Any thoughts?
Lol.
The eggs are cooking on the stove. The beer is locked up, the wife will be visiting a friend, the squirrel dogs are out and the phone is off the hook. After work today--it gets done.
This thing is sure built solid. Its heavier than it looks to be.
The eggs are cooking on the stove. The beer is locked up, the wife will be visiting a friend, the squirrel dogs are out and the phone is off the hook. After work today--it gets done.
This thing is sure built solid. Its heavier than it looks to be.
come on over Levi. In addition I am going to be doing a pretty big project Saturday that i haven't even mentioned. I am almost positive you will like it a lot. I am getting something done to get ready for the big Mazmart meet June 16th.
I will hook up the PS3 Gran T racing game again
I will hook up the PS3 Gran T racing game again
well e for effect and a big old A for the install
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339289839
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290647
I didnt take any more pictures because it is just a straight forward install. tap into the wire that provides the coils with current ( white /black one that runs directly to the capacitator.
Hook up the bas ground, the hobbs switch and thats it.
Does it make a difference---well--my butt dyno says yes--but that doesnt mean anything. it is VERY smooth, cranks very fast--faster than usual. Remember i increased the diameter of the supply power coil wires.
I only have it turned on to 10% which equals around 15volts after the hobbs switches on.
I cannot measure voltage out put at the coils because it only turns on under boost and I dont free rev my engine. I will figure out how to do this at some point.
ASAP I am going to open the gap in my denso plugs a little.
After that--wait on Steve Kan to come to town and its back on the dyno.
Levi was up here helping me a little with it. But he helped a lot with my other project which really turned out well.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290359
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290526
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290789
the silver carbon fiber shows up very white/shiny on my old camera--sorry about that. It looks much better in person.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339289839
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290647
I didnt take any more pictures because it is just a straight forward install. tap into the wire that provides the coils with current ( white /black one that runs directly to the capacitator.
Hook up the bas ground, the hobbs switch and thats it.
Does it make a difference---well--my butt dyno says yes--but that doesnt mean anything. it is VERY smooth, cranks very fast--faster than usual. Remember i increased the diameter of the supply power coil wires.
I only have it turned on to 10% which equals around 15volts after the hobbs switches on.
I cannot measure voltage out put at the coils because it only turns on under boost and I dont free rev my engine. I will figure out how to do this at some point.
ASAP I am going to open the gap in my denso plugs a little.
After that--wait on Steve Kan to come to town and its back on the dyno.
Levi was up here helping me a little with it. But he helped a lot with my other project which really turned out well.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290359
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290526
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339290789
the silver carbon fiber shows up very white/shiny on my old camera--sorry about that. It looks much better in person.
Last edited by olddragger; Jun 9, 2012 at 08:18 PM.
console
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339292505
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339292530
the silver carbon fiber looks much better than my old camera shows.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1339292530
the silver carbon fiber looks much better than my old camera shows.
Even Mark( Team ) is working on a new ignition system using the mercury marine coils. He was the first one to point out that the primary power wires to the coils are small and could use some upsizing if more current was going to be needed.
rev it up
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 11
From: Brisbane Australia
I guess most people on this forum are team players as we all report observations from our mods and engage in a healthy debate on the pros and cons.
I have spent many years absorbing information and now leading the charge with the ongoing development of the Hymee supercharger so other owners can benefit from my experimentation.
I have spent many years absorbing information and now leading the charge with the ongoing development of the Hymee supercharger so other owners can benefit from my experimentation.
pics...silver CF looks white in the pictures
also discovered a new species growing under his cup holders...they are obviously not sealed (last pic)
it did give the car a nice Cola fragrance though
also discovered a new species growing under his cup holders...they are obviously not sealed (last pic)
it did give the car a nice Cola fragrance though