Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Why is always the Petit thread that get locked when its all the SC haters that **** all over the thread... I m not sure what the appropiate action would be but its pretty shitty that its the SC threads that get locked because the Turbo boys cant be civil. That doesnt mean that objective criticism isnt welcome but all the shitting needs to stop..... It would be nice to actually talk and learn from Bastage's Dyno thread and not get to the bottom of the page and see the locked logo...

XRX8X

never fails to amaze me how home depot has been a good friend to our cars in time of pressed inventors like us!!they have what we need and show us the way!i'm out of warrenty and ready for my supercharger now!

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

The thread crapping results in the threads being deleted.

If a thread is closed, it can't be deleted, therefore the info remains - so which is better, deleted or closed?

There is a proposal flying around in moderator discussions, that perhaps vendors of 'other systems' not be allowed to participate in threads, in a vendors own forum - it usually leads to the predictable pissing match.


S

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

True, but since I have read all of the Petit threads its pretty evident that the problem comes and goes,, Im not pointin fingers cause its pretty evident that its a select few causing the mess, but they do contribute to some constructive discussion when no ones trying to prove how big their interweb **** is,,,
But action against those people needs to be thought about, not the thread, and we all know that banning is only a temp solution. It really does suck though big time...

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I like this idea very much.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I think that anyone that is an "advocate" of any particular system take a step back, divest themselves of any particular bias they might have against any particular forum member, and look at what is being said and done and why.

Doesn't anyone find it interesting that there aren't people in the turbo threads calling for the "banning" of any supercharger owners?

There is a distinct, visceral fear amongst some of the SC people about having any sort of fact-based discussion about anything that might contravene their purchasing decisions.

There is BS in every forum and in every FI thread, but it is consistently, time and time again that whenever ANY sort of question is raised against data, the reactions are completely and politically predictable.

Question the TC people and you get a wall of data, charts, diagrams and logs.
Do the same with the SC people and you immediately get a flurry of ad hominem attacks and questioning of motives.

Motives do not matter. Ever.

You can say what you want about my motives - it has no bearing on the conversation and is just a red herring. I don't care if you think I'm deliberately biased against superchargers (I'm not) or Pettit (I'm not, but I can certainly see how one would believe so, based on the incredibly long, uphill battle that has been waged against the crap that was the original kit).
You have the same responsibility to look at the data, regardless of the source.

It is pretty clear that I level the same criticisms against ANY system that makes claims that are spurious or is delivered with questionable parts or engineering.
It doesn't matter if its belt or exhaust driven.
I have a pretty long history here of calling a spade a spade.
And I feel it is, to some degree, my responsibility to remain consistent in this action because, time and time again, people will come back and try to pull a fast one and obscure the past advances into the BS by restating the same old crap that they asserted weeks, months and years before.

There are new faces, day after day and they don't always have the diligence to find the truth in all the nonsense. They should be expected to take everything with a grain of salt, but it is difficult if the wool is constantly being pulled over their eyes; not only here but in the marketing/magazine assault they are constantly under.

You can do what you want - certainly retreating into a fascist, fanbois stupor will do much for your ego. Go ahead - close ranks. It'll be easier to work that reach-around.
But everyone would be better served by ignoring what you think about the messenger and start debating the message.

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Charles R Hill and Hymee and Jeff 50% of the time...do contribute wonderful info though,,, maybe give 'permission' and 'blocks' to the vendors so they can dictate to certain competitors and vendors, instead of an all out block form the mods...

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

True MM but in this particular case, even though you do contribute a significant amount of unbiased info, there are definately tension between some at the Petit R&D group and yourself that rarely goes in any direction but into nonsensicle pissing fits, and its those post that get the threads locked... I dont think anyone really has a personal problem with you just what happens to the thread when all the ingredients spell disaster,,, its the thread and other whom want to learn and make choices about which FI decission to make that suffer in the long run...

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Don't shoot the messenger then

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

stealth: that's a horrible idea for all involved. I for one hope it doesn't happen.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Precisely.
It is ABUNDANTLY clear that I am NEVER the first person to start calling people names or questioning their motives.
In, fact, I don't question people's motives at all. I assume that everyone comes from their own direction.
And as far as name calling goes, I prefer to use people's own words against them rather than simply insult them from my own pocket of goodies.
Bastage is a poopy-peepee, though. lol

There are individuals that simply can't keep it in their pants.

I only care about data.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

It's sad that if a vendor comes on here and sells a product, it usually gets battered and bruised, worse than if they ignored us and just sold to Joe Public.

Look through any magazine that writes about rotaries - there are dozens of shops and tuners I've never heard of. But if they come here and advertise, we rip 'em a new one and flush 'em....

I remember (Chuck?) RotaryExtreme and the abuse they took, back in the day. Goodbye Chuck......

Support should be a two-way street, not a permit to air every UPS problem or "...you didn't reply to last night's e-mail" bitch fest, or pissing match.

.....rant over..........S

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting indeed, but not when you realize that Pettit owners don't go crapping in those threads. They could care less what kit you buy, because they're not trying to sell you one.

If there were facts involved, there wouldn't be any problems. Unfortunately all you provide is opinion, or made-up bs. Even if you started giving facts, at this point I personally wouldn't care, you've dug yourself too deep of a hole.

Right, just like when Brettus tried to figure out why his third gear seemed taller than everyone elses, you sure did a good job of looking at the "data" there too. No you immediately assumed you were correct and proceeded in trying to bash/belittle him.

Face it, your approach to this whole thing sucks, and I feel sorry for you.

I disagree, where are the logs, charts, and diagrams of your kit? I've only seen one dyno. I also asked how you came to the 20% hp increase number with w/m injection (without tuning for it) on at least 3 occasions, but you selectively ignored it. There's no way your car is making 20% more hp with just W/M and no tuning.
Says the guy with the perfect motive.

So you have nothing against Pettit, but you constantly bash their product instead of providing constructive comments. Aren't those states mutually exclusive? I once pointed out your lack of constructivity, and you quickly claimed it was because you wanted Pettit to fail because it's good for business, and that you wouldn't be able to make a "small fortune" if "they somehow got their act together." Talk about using someone's own words against them... I can post where you said this again if you like.

All you've said here is BS and has no relevance to this discussion. You're a vendor on this forum, making non-constructive BS comments about another vendor's products. Remember when you called out Pettit for falsifying dynos. I've shown you 5 dynos that all fall within the range that they claim, yet I have yet to see you backtrack from your baseless accusation.

Ahh so you're trying to paint yourself as a hero now. Talk about ego! Good grief! Where's the truth in your "dyno comparison" thread? There's nothing in that thread that proves to me that there is any real objective comparison going on. You have a bunch of lines drawn on one sheet. Each of those lines could have been generated at different temperatures/elevations, with different modifications. Coincidentally the guy who takes ownership of said dyno comparison sheet also sells the product that produces the best curve.

What I was trying to provide was a collection of somewhat objective data, so people could see what this kit is really capable of. I guess you couldn't handle that and you and your "fanbois" had to crap all over it.

You're wrong Jeff; plain and simple. I think sometimes people are too afraid of your e-posse and your impressive vocabulary to tell you this, but you are totally and completely wrong.

That said, let's not let this thread spiral into crap also, if you want to debate me via PM, feel free.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

^^ I'm not going to click on the "view post" for that, but I assume its the usual bile about how I don't provide data, I don't offer solutions or I don't have anything constructive to say or how I am trying to sell something.
If you want to go head to head with me, you are not going to do it by ignoring things selectively.
Save it for your fan club.
Oh. You don't have one.
Sorry.

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure I responded to your entire post, and everyone else will see that.

I don't care to have a fan club, and if I did it certainly wouldn't be on a car club forum. Enjoy yours while it lasts. Based on some observations of recent developments, fanbois do not always stay loyal.

You know, I will give you some credit. You're probably the best RX-8 tuner that lives on this forum. Too bad the really good ones have better things to do than troll around this site all day and bash anyone selling a competing product.


For those of you who don't know, the context of this quote is in response to why he can't be more constructive and actually provide solutions to any of his perceived problems with the kit, instead of just bashing it all the time.

Now there's a man with integrity. It's total bullshit BTW, because he's gotten his hands on maybe two Pettit supercharged cars.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I would hope that the proposal flying around with the mods is dropped. Censorship sounds good to a few but is not beneficial to the group. If you "ban" one guy or group of people, where does it stop? I happen to be good friends with one under consideration and friendly with those on the opposing side. Do I get banned because I associate with him or them? I read the whole argument and do a little investigation into both sides and make my own decision.

From a vendor side I see my name in constant view of the general forum. Yes some things may look detrimental to my product but there are also other views on that forum that support my product.

Unfortunately it seems to get personal and that, once started, is next to impossible to stop. The actual disagreement gets lost in the verbal BS that goes back and forth.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

How about we vendors be allowed to participate in the discussion thereof with the moderators? I know I have never been invited......... I also know that I have no problem with a fellow vendor coming into my threads and challenging me on any aspect of my particular product. The, again, I am a Rand Objectivist who prefers a free market. The irony here is that what happens behind-the-scenes between we vendors is almost never discussed on this forum.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

there are places on the forum that provide for the disscussion of vendors products other than the vendors own thread. I can see the point that is being made.
Personally I have no problem with what anyone posts--its an internet forum for Christ sake--very helpful on many occasisions, but it certainly hasnt hurt me personnally, but there again i am not in business.
Hmmmmm--- the world is to damn complicated.
olddragger

mysql

Post vendor specific threads within the vendor's forums. That way the vendor's can delete posts as needed. No mess, no fuss.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

I believe vendor sub forums are essentially purchased space. At that point, then, vendors should have as much control over their own sub forum as can be given. There is a cost/benefit to posting in the vendor forums as opposed to the aftermarket forums. The aftermarket forums tend to see more eyes and get more traffic while the vendor forums would give you more control as to what thoughts and criticisms are attached to your product. The vendor forums are paid advertising.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

They are.
They do.
And it is VERY expensive.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

If it is purchased space then my arguement is not valid as the Vendor shold have control over his purchased space. Not being a forum vendor I was not aware that those areas are purchase. I was under the under impression that if you paid your vendor fees then you were given a space for your products use. How in hell would you police the paid threads? It would seem that if the Vendor is paying for it then he needs to police it. Boy I see a can of worms there.

Rote8

We could do a "vote off the island" deal with comments themselves.
If too many people mark a comment as "trollin" it is automatically removed.

This should require a high enough number of users marking a troll comment to prevent blocks of voters from ganging up on individuals, and also be limited to long term forum users to prevent someone from making new logins just to vote.
This way, we don't even ban the user, but wipe some comments.

It should also not eliminate debate of facts.

Is this a good compromise?
Anyone have better ideas?
Is this idea totally batshot?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You know exactly how that is going to go:

Q) The data in set "A" is not acceptable under ISO and SAE standards, therefore it is not acceptable.
1) You are a biased a**hole.
2) Yeah he's a hater!
3) He's just a wannabe trying to sell a competing product!
4) He never has anything constructive to say!
5) YEAH! Lets vote him out!
Q)?

Trying to install a rationalized process on irrational people is not going to yield a useful result one way or another.
Either decide to close ranks and put your fingers in your ears or just stop reading the posts that "offend" you.

Rote8

The idea is to stop false accusations, both of a comment being a troll and of dislike of a product to color your responses.
Many issues dealt with and ideas invented by Pettit are applicable to turbocharged cars, Pettit actually made their name with turbochargers; also many ideas and inventions by turbo owners can benefit supercharged systems.
We have had numerous discussions on what is the best liquid to air intercooler fluid, series vs parallel plumbing of heat exchanges, not to mention the stuff that works for N/A heat issues too.

The occasional pissing match between T/C vs S/C is nothing compared to what we can bitch about with Air to Air vs Water to Air intercoolers....

We could always debate which end of a boiled egg to break first. (everyone knows it IS the larger end)

Personal attacks are just wrong though.