Pettit Super Charger Owners
08-21-2008, 03:28 PM
#2926
I can only speak for myself on this, but the endless and baseless accusation of "disliking" a product is endemic to these supercharger discussions.
Why isn't it so in the 1/2 dozen turbo system threads?
Lots of arguing, but no one throwing around "bias" as an argument.
But it is the favorite method of quite a few people that have appointed themselves the guardians of the gate.
I know - and I'm sure you do as well - that as soon as an ad hominem attack is made, the argument is lost.
08-21-2008, 04:04 PM
#2927
Registered
I guess some feel that there is really only room for one forced induction package?
My reason for going S/C has to do with long standing personal preference, (Though the liquid to air I/Cs did help)
I really doubt any internet argument would have changed my mind, but there are possibly some who feel if they can change future customer's desires with negative feedback.
08-21-2008, 04:39 PM
#2928
Why is it all you ******** want to argue but Cam and I have absolutely NO issues with one another? If the "leaders" of the two perceived "camps" aren't fighting why the Hell are all of you? And there is plenty of blame to go around for all of you so STFU, MEOW!!
I love all you guys like brothers but you're acting like idiots.........
I love all you guys like brothers but you're acting like idiots.........
08-21-2008, 04:47 PM
#2929
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
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+1..........where is the yawning "You're boring me, and I so sick of this ****" emoticon? 
Can we get one made please?
We could use that a lot around here, and not just in this thread.
Can we get one made please?
We could use that a lot around here, and not just in this thread.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 08-21-2008 at 04:50 PM.
08-21-2008, 05:05 PM
#2930
True MM but in this particular case, even though you do contribute a significant amount of unbiased info, there are definately tension between some at the Petit R&D group and yourself that rarely goes in any direction but into nonsensicle pissing fits, and its those post that get the threads locked... I dont think anyone really has a personal problem with you just what happens to the thread when all the ingredients spell disaster,,, its the thread and other whom want to learn and make choices about which FI decission to make that suffer in the long run...
I'm not sure I'd ever make the assumption that Jeff (MM) is capable of "unbiased" information. The tone of his posts make a fine art of walking the line between abrasive and abusive for no apparent reason at all. His type of bias is not the over type, but very subtle. You have to ask why a tuner who runs a turbo essentially spends all day (add up the number of posts he makes in this and other forurms) sticking his face in a thread devoted to an excellent supercharger kit.
Make no mistake, Jeff has an ego bigger than all outdoors. He seems to have some tuning chops; too bad his ******* attitude detracts from his presencel. In a lot of ways, Jeff's presence here is a lot like deleting vs. locking threads; his ego forces him to leave some good information; you just have to shrug your shoulders and realize its being offered up by an *******.
But again, I wouldn't want him at my back.
08-21-2008, 05:10 PM
#2931
Jeff's biases are not hidden and he'll tell you exactly what they are based on, if you simply ask him. That 's what independent thinkning is supposed to be about. After that, you can disagree all you want on the merits of his, and anybody esle's biases. I run into this same issue when I decide to seriously debate somebody. Jeff and I really are not all that different, I am just nicer about it.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-21-2008 at 05:47 PM.
08-21-2008, 05:17 PM
#2932
Still ignoring data, even in that context?
No. Obviously I'm even more invested in the Esmiril/GReddy/PTP/SFR threads.
The whole point isn't to make the product "go away". We want to make it as fast, powerful, reliable, predictable and consistent as possible.
If you can't see that my goal is ALWAYS to improve a device, then you really are just sticking your fingers in your ears.
Time and time again, my criticisms are aimed and getting a solution. And, when the manufacturer won't pick up the slack, I try to get other people to take the initiative.
Failing that, I do it myself.
When the DNA wasn't right, what were my suggestions? How about the SFR?
I've got entire threads dedicated to the GReddy. Do I own a GReddy kit? No.
So, am I a hater?
Just read that thread and see what I said about them and their "solutions".
The difference is, there are no GReddy fanbois to call me a hater.
Look at the Esmeril thread. Obviously, I'm a hater. That's why I spent hours with Louie trying to get his system to work. And even more hours trying to get to the bottom of the parts selection and WG routing.
I must be a turbo hater, too.
I have no argument with Cam. Why would I?
When I went about pointing out the big problems the Pettit system had, Moon and the fanbois went apesh*t instead of addressing the problem.
Then, they did eventually. Why that reaction first?
I doubt when I pointed out that ZIP-tying the MAF to the MC that the reaction from Cam was "Oh, he's a hater!".
What was GReddy's response when I pointed out how FUBAR the injector scheme was for the E-Manage?
They changed it.
I didn't see a single person complain that I was hating on GReddy.
When people question my choice of turbo or whatever, is my first reaction (or that of the MazdaManiac fanbois club) to call people out as haters?
No.
You get a constant, unrelenting stream of data.
Obviously, my personal tactic - being brusque - is designed to bring the worst out in people.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
If what I say makes you angry, take a step back and realize you are being played.
No. Obviously I'm even more invested in the Esmiril/GReddy/PTP/SFR threads.
If you can't see that my goal is ALWAYS to improve a device, then you really are just sticking your fingers in your ears.
Time and time again, my criticisms are aimed and getting a solution. And, when the manufacturer won't pick up the slack, I try to get other people to take the initiative.
Failing that, I do it myself.
When the DNA wasn't right, what were my suggestions? How about the SFR?
I've got entire threads dedicated to the GReddy. Do I own a GReddy kit? No.
So, am I a hater?
Just read that thread and see what I said about them and their "solutions".
The difference is, there are no GReddy fanbois to call me a hater.
Look at the Esmeril thread. Obviously, I'm a hater. That's why I spent hours with Louie trying to get his system to work. And even more hours trying to get to the bottom of the parts selection and WG routing.
I must be a turbo hater, too.
I have no argument with Cam. Why would I?
When I went about pointing out the big problems the Pettit system had, Moon and the fanbois went apesh*t instead of addressing the problem.
Then, they did eventually. Why that reaction first?
I doubt when I pointed out that ZIP-tying the MAF to the MC that the reaction from Cam was "Oh, he's a hater!".
What was GReddy's response when I pointed out how FUBAR the injector scheme was for the E-Manage?
They changed it.
I didn't see a single person complain that I was hating on GReddy.
When people question my choice of turbo or whatever, is my first reaction (or that of the MazdaManiac fanbois club) to call people out as haters?
No.
You get a constant, unrelenting stream of data.
Obviously, my personal tactic - being brusque - is designed to bring the worst out in people.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
If what I say makes you angry, take a step back and realize you are being played.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 08-21-2008 at 05:20 PM.
08-21-2008, 05:36 PM
#2933
The Local Idiot
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08-21-2008, 05:49 PM
#2934
Obviously, my personal tactic - being brusque - is designed to bring the worst out in people.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
THIS is the key to our friendship and why BHR has guys like MM and Easy_E1 on the team.
08-21-2008, 05:59 PM
#2935
All I see is a bunch of insecure people crying because there product is being challenged. If it's that good why can people find flaws in it. And if there are flaws and someone points them out,,, wouldn't you thank them, fix them and make the CUSTOMER happy?
Or would you just cry like a little kid and say "Mommy,,,,, He's picking on me".
Good God grow up!
Or would you just cry like a little kid and say "Mommy,,,,, He's picking on me".
Good God grow up!
08-21-2008, 06:04 PM
#2937
Obviously, my personal tactic - being brusque - is designed to bring the worst out in people.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
If what I say makes you angry, take a step back and realize you are being played.
It makes my job easier by separating the wheat from the chaff.
If you are smart/cunning you will not get lured in by my tactics and see the quality of the question, not the abrasiveness of the words.
If what I say makes you angry, take a step back and realize you are being played.
good job
08-21-2008, 06:08 PM
#2938
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Brettus: stop allowing yourself to be pissed off. I am a true believer in that philosophy but that's a tale for another day.
08-21-2008, 06:36 PM
#2941
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
yes, it is reasonable to be miffed but it is in THAT moment that you make a choice whether you are going to allow yourself to be miffed and act out or whether you brush off what has been said. The choice though not an easy one, is still a choice.
08-21-2008, 06:48 PM
#2944
In the meantime, no one has proven that SAE correction added 20 hp to Miron's dyno plot. I asked that this be proven to me, but all I got was flames.
Personally I think it's going to be more like +/- a few hp, but MM seems to like to pull the number 20 out whenever he gets questioned (like the untuned 20% hp gain with his w/m injection kit for a whopping total of 380 hp at 9psi).
Personally I think it's going to be more like +/- a few hp, but MM seems to like to pull the number 20 out whenever he gets questioned (like the untuned 20% hp gain with his w/m injection kit for a whopping total of 380 hp at 9psi).
08-21-2008, 07:05 PM
#2945
[quote=Bastage;2606514No one can ever question him or turn his insults against him. He's too sensitive for that.[/quote]
Besides that statement not making any sense on its own from a semantic standpoint, how would my "sensitivity" preclude your ability to make an argument?
Only you have to prove anything since you are making the assertion that the dyno is valid with the SAE correction on, despite specific rules from the SAE saying that it isn't. Are you challenging the SAE now?
Just turn the SAE correction off like everyone else engaged in the discussion and see where the chips fall.
If you are going to call the entire dyno comparison thread a lie just because of who is producing the graph, then you have no grounds to make claims with dynos either.
You can't have it both ways.
Besides that statement not making any sense on its own from a semantic standpoint, how would my "sensitivity" preclude your ability to make an argument?
Just turn the SAE correction off like everyone else engaged in the discussion and see where the chips fall.
If you are going to call the entire dyno comparison thread a lie just because of who is producing the graph, then you have no grounds to make claims with dynos either.
You can't have it both ways.
08-21-2008, 07:32 PM
#2946
Besides that statement not making any sense on its own from a semantic standpoint, how would my "sensitivity" preclude your ability to make an argument?
Only you have to prove anything since you are making the assertion that the dyno is valid with the SAE correction on, despite specific rules from the SAE saying that it isn't. Are you challenging the SAE now?
Just turn the SAE correction off like everyone else engaged in the discussion and see where the chips fall.
If you are going to call the entire dyno comparison thread a lie just because of who is producing the graph, then you have no grounds to make claims with dynos either.
You can't have it both ways.
Only you have to prove anything since you are making the assertion that the dyno is valid with the SAE correction on, despite specific rules from the SAE saying that it isn't. Are you challenging the SAE now?
Just turn the SAE correction off like everyone else engaged in the discussion and see where the chips fall.
If you are going to call the entire dyno comparison thread a lie just because of who is producing the graph, then you have no grounds to make claims with dynos either.
You can't have it both ways.
I never made an assertion of the sort, stop manufacturing assertions. You guys were the ones that claimed it was 20 hp too high, and I asked you to prove it. I've already asked the source of the sheet for a dyno file, have not heard back from him yet.
And once again you're ignoring my question on how you're making 380 whp at 9psi with W/M injection without tuning for it. Dodge away.
08-21-2008, 08:36 PM
#2948
The argument here isn't that we think our HP numbers are better than anyone's, so a dyno competition would prove squat. The argument here is that some folks are just unnecessarily belligerent and continue to try to cast doubt on the numbers claimed by Pettit (270-300 rwhp). It's basically an attempt to discredit something that we know to be true, and it's insanely annoying, especially when he has his mob come in and join in on his fun. He knows it's true, we know it's true, but just by him questioning it, it casts doubts, and that's his business model (cast doubt on all other FI solutions, so people will buy his). Once I get the dyno file from Miron we'll see how silly MM and the MM-Mafia were being. 20 whp too high? We shall see...
I still would like to know why thinks he's making 20% more hp with w/m injection without tuning for it (that's 380 whp at 9 psi, btw).
08-21-2008, 08:49 PM
#2949
Registered
08-21-2008, 08:58 PM
#2950
I've already explained it elsewhere.
I'm not repeating it again just for you.
Read how water/meth works and come back with a new question.
Really, if you follow the S/C thread, you do see a general lack of understanding what W/M is for. Its not to cool the hardware, which is the way most guys seem to be using it.