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Picked the bracket up from the shop this AM. A course fit is shown below ...and I believe mission accomplished. It's not bolted, and therefore not square as shown ...and will provide a bit more clearance when bolted up.
Couple observations about the the different IC configurations I detailed a couple posts above.
When reviewing the data I saw a range of IAT & ECT temps for each IC config ...at the same ambient temps, which highlighted that other factors in addition to my set-ups were contributing to measured IAT and ECTs, e.g. cruising speed prior to log, heat soak, etc. In hind sight in order to get accurate temp data a consistent test protocol would need to have been used, which I did not. So, using the data at hand... I focused on IAT & ECTs for each config. w/ ambient temps in the high 80s -90*F.
The front mounted 12" IC (13/17 rows open to air) not surprisingly yielded the lowest IATs, albeit at the expense of the poorest performance of ECTs d/t the extent to which it blocks airflow to the rad. When the 12" IC was laid flat (17/17 rows open to, but perpendicular to airflow, I.e. in v-mount config, ECTs are very good, but IATs suffer. The front mounted 8" IC (12/12 rows open to direct airflow) generated good IATS, nearly as good as the 12" front mounted, AND good ECTs as well.
Reviewing this ...has caused me to rethink attempting to shoehorn in the 12", which will likely always sufficiently obstruct airflow to the rad prohibiting good ECTs. Instead I will focus on re-mounting my 8" treadstone IC as high a possible, which I believe will achieve the best balance: good IATs and even improved ECT performance.
- Installed the rad & fans
- Fitted the IC in a higher mounting position (mock up shown below. Fnl w/b raised ~1/2" to minimize top gap)
- prep'd the oil pan for reinstall
- and a few other minor items, e.g. sensors & vac. hoses, etc.
IC install mock-up. Final position will seal the upper gap
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there’s nothing wrong with 190*F coolant temp, I’d take the lower IAT over that ECT difference
Team, Agreed there's nothing wrong w/ "a" 190° F ECT per se (AAaF, ° ), but that's not the point. Sound arguments c/b made for the importance of both IAT & ECT. So, my goal is to optimize both, i.e. to design as efficient and robust systems as possible for both ECT AND IAT ...given the inevitable interaction between them d/t limited frontal real estate and airflow sharing.
Since I did not have data to evaluate at extreme conditions: rpm, load, duration, heat soak, etc.; I'm assessing performance at moderate conditions ..., w/ an eye to extrapolating that to more extreme conditions. From that perspective the 12" IC 190°F ECT is undesirable relatively speaking... given the improved ECT performance and negligible IAT performance decline in comparison of the 8" IC config.
That 10°F coolant difference won’t matter, but several degrees IAT can be the difference between a detonation event or not. It’s obviously your call though. Plus a more efficient turbo would have much more impact, so it’s just quibbling over minutia at this point.
In addition to reinstalling a few run of the mill items ...I fabricated a duct for my IC hoping to milk my 8" IC for all it's worth.
- IC duct
- turbo oil drain
- Intake section ...to compressor inlet
- Coolant hoses (rad. inlet / outlet, and all terminating at coolant thermostat manifold)
Completed install, modified the undertray and bumper to accommodate the new IC mounting position. She starts with no hesitation, idles smoothly, but has a smallish oil leak ...at the oil pan it appears, and a misfire on cylinder 1 when driving even at low load.
Tired ...of working on this car. So, leaving diagnosis and resolution of the misfire for another day, and will address the oil leak at first oil change at ~60 -100 mi. Plugs are new, and all leads tested at ~3k ohm / ft; so I suspect a coil.
Disappointed I didn't get the chance to evaluate IC and rad performance today.
Woke up this morning, my birthday, and started perusing an old forum thread on P0301 misfire code, and was immediately struck by a comment:
- Dannobre: "Did you reset the ESS ?...."
- Me: I thought to..., but did you? No, I didn't.
Pulled myself together before Worship (Church), reset the ESS, i.e. 20 break stomp w/in 8 secs; then took her for a morning spin.
Voila' ...resolved the misfires. Purring like a big cat ..., completely clean dash...; except for the TPS icon, which I refuse to pay to repair that useless bit of technology. Thanks again forum. Thanks Dannobre.
So, the vitals. In 74°F ambient w/ a slight drizzle:
- IAT: ~82°F
- ECT: ~163°F
Looking forward to evaluating performance in hotter temps.
EDIT: 2nd drive later in the day at 80°F ambient:
- IAT: ~86°F
- ECT: ~163°F
- Oil T.: 175°F
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Look good . Engine temp seems too cold though. Are you running aftermarket thermostat ?
Thanks. Yes, I run the Mishimoto Racing t-stat which has a rated opening temp of 170°F. Evidently, it's cracking low 160s, and is "fully" open at 170.
EDIT: Mid-summer last year temps were ~ 180°F while moving, and raised to ~190 - 200°F at lights w/ the same Mishimoto t-stat.
So, I need to assess ECT performance in our typical 90+°F summer temps w/ the new IC position and ducting. I may need to swap in a standard t-stat in cooler months.
Eh, block (partially) the radiator when it's cold(er) out. I do that on the RX-8 and an old Insight. Helps a lot so long as I don't forget when it gets warm. I have warnings set well below "hot" to remind me if I do.
Eh, block (partially) the radiator when it's cold(er) out. I do that on the RX-8 and an old Insight. Helps a lot so long as I don't forget when it gets warm. I have warnings set well below "hot" to remind me if I do.
I have lower threshold oil t-stats installed as well, and already do that w/ the oil coolers. So yeah, good idea to do the same w/ the rad., and easier than swapping t-stats.
Well, I was prepared to remove and reinstall my oil pan, but decided at my first oil change to retighten the bolts all round. So, I drained the oil, removed the four set screws to access the four hidden bolts (see pic below), and re-tightened them all round. So, far so good: the leak is diminished to ~ a teaspoon per night. I can live with that.
In 92°F ambient temp performance is:
- ECT: 180°F (~195°F in "stop & go" or when stopped at lights)
- Oil T: 180°F (~190°F in "stop & go" or when stopped at lights)
- IAT: ~100-105°F (haven't been pushing it really hard ...yet)
Increased the WG spring to 4.5#, started using the EBC; and have hit 7# boost. So far really pleased w/ how smooth the boost comes on w/ the 5862.
So, will continue to tune her up to ~ 13#, and have an aesthetic idea or two...
For the oil pan installation did you use a gasket or a flange sealant compound?
I used Permatex Gray.
See my below experience last year w/the Pineapple pre-formed gasket.
Originally Posted by jcbrx8
Update: Pineapple Oil Pan Gasket
Just wanted to provide a bit more color regarding my experience w/ the Pineapple oil pan gasket. I was optimistic about the ease of oil pan installation and removal using it; but it didn't work out.
Obviously, installation using Permatex Gray is a bit more daunting, but each time it has created a very high quality seal. In the past on removal... the bond was so strong that I literally had to grasp the pan, suspend my upper body weight, and bounce and pull for 2-3 mins to break the seal. Lol, ... and I thought this was a bad thing.
Well, I removed the pan last night... having used the Pineapple gasket, and the pan was literally falling down before I could get the last bolts out. Though I'd used a smear of Perm Gray above and below the gasket...it had bonded to the metal, but not to the gasket at all. It seems the gasket was actually the barrier to a good seal.
Perhaps it was my process..., and others have had a better experience..., but I'll be using Perm Gray only going forward.
Great job on the ducting, looks like a good strategy. Simply lower the intercooler a few inches in the winter for best IATs.
Thanks, Stroker. Did you mean...lower the IC for best ECTs in the winter? If so, that's an option, but fitting a sheet of plastic or aluminum to cover a portion of the rad. seems easier.
07-08-2021, 09:56 AM
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Depends ...true at 190°F, not so much at 225°F.
