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...Edit: Here's a link to my back pressure experimentation. I installed the sensor, recorded some results, upgraded the turbo, then recorded more results to compare old and new turbo. This was all on a Greddy manifold (t25 turbine flange). https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...3/#post4730979
Jimmy, Your EMAP experimentation... interesting stuff. Still digesting it...
Brett's been recommending I install an EMAP sensor for a while now.
So, I've pretty well gotten boost tuned to ~14 psi, what I believe / hope w/b a moderately aggressive boost level ...for my set-up, which will also yield reasonable reliability (yes, of course... relative).
Below is a comparison of a 15 vs 14 psi profiles in which it c/b seen that AFR is in a more comfortable range relative to the AEM recommended upper limit at 14 psi.
Solid looking boost curves. Any chance those graphs can be converted to an RPM based X-Axis rather than time without any hassle? I'm assuming that's just a pull through the RPM range anyways but would still be nice to see. The AFR definitely appears to look a bit lean on the back half of the 14psi graph, maybe even a little on 15psi (assuming low 11's would be ideal AFR target).
Last edited by RotaryMachineRx; 09-23-2020 at 10:41 AM.
Solid looking boost curves. Any chance those graphs can be converted to an RPM based X-Axis rather than time without any hassle? I'm assuming that's just a pull through the RPM range anyways but would still be nice to see. The AFR definitely appears to look a bit lean on the back half of the 14psi graph.
Thanks, Jesse.
Not to my knowledge via AEM b/c it doesn't have a rpm feed. However, I can do a VD which does log w/ rpm on the x-axis. Then the M/E VD and AEM profile c/b sync'd using "Load" and an estimate of rpms transferred to the profile. I'll try to remember to do that next time a do a legit VD, as most of these are just spirited driving...i.e. no formal start rpm, and not necessarily WOT, and post the result.
Edit: The estimated rpm range boost "peak to drop" via the above process on previous pulls is ~4200 - 8000 rpm.
Not to my knowledge via AEM b/c it doesn't have a rpm feed. However, I can do a VD which does log w/ rpm on the x-axis. Then the M/E VD and AEM profile c/b sync'd using "Load" and an estimate of rpms transferred to the profile. I'll try to remember to do that next time a do a legit VD, as most of these are just spirited driving...i.e. no formal start rpm, and not necessarily WOT, and post the result. .
The AEM failsafe gauge can be set up to record rpm ...... have never bothered to get that set up myself though as I believe it's quite a mission. Curve looks good. Looks like it only drops 1-2psi at high rpm end ?
The AEM failsafe gauge can be set up to record rpm ...... have never bothered to get that set up myself though as I believe it's quite a mission. Curve looks good. Looks like it only drops 1-2psi at high rpm end ?
Correct..., but it requires a rpm feed, which it currently does not have. So, it's back to the challenge of deriving a solid rpm signal.
Thanks. yes, I'd say a drop of ~1.5 +/- psi across the rpm range.
Just wanted to provide a bit more color regarding my experience w/ the Pineapple oil pan gasket. I was optimistic about the ease of oil pan installation and removal using it; but it didn't work out.
Obviously, installation using Permatex Gray is a bit more daunting, but each time it has created a very high quality seal. In the past on removal... the bond was so strong that I literally had to grasp the pan, suspend my upper body weight, and bounce and pull for 2-3 mins to break the seal. Lol, ... and I thought this was a bad thing.
Well, I removed the pan last night... having used the Pineapple gasket, and the pan was literally falling down before I could get the last bolts out. Though I'd used a smear of Perm Gray above and below the gasket...it had bonded to the metal, but not to the gasket at all. It seems the gasket was actually the barrier to a good seal.
Perhaps it was my process..., and others have had a better experience..., but I'll be using Perm Gray only going forward.
Had my share of issues with oil pan leaks myself .A turbo engine seems to need special treatment vs N/A These days I have a set process using Permatex Black that works every time (touchwood).
I have resealed my oil pan probably 6 or 7 times over the past 5 years. I have used Toyota FIPG, Permatex black, you name it. It seems to always leak no matter what I do. I always find about 5 drips under my car after parking it overnight. I just accept it now.....
I have resealed my oil pan probably 6 or 7 times over the past 5 years. I have used Toyota FIPG, Permatex black, you name it. It seems to always leak no matter what I do. I always find about 5 drips under my car after parking it overnight. I just accept it now.....
I had no problem w/ oil pan leaks once Gregs recommended using Perm Gray. Lesson learned: it wasn't broken...I shouldn't have tried to fix it.
My larger issue is the turbo oil drain. It's connects ~3.5" up into a cavity and snakes thru an ~ 1" access slit between the oil pan and exh. manifold. It literally lays against the manifold as it passes thru this opening, and the heat deteriorates it over time. I've already replaced it once, and even w/ shielding know it's a matter of time before needing to do it again. As TomD suggested when I replaced it before... I'm going to have to find a way to install a hard pipe there.
This pic is from when it started leaking before.
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I had no problem w/ oil pan leaks once Gregs recommended using Perm Gray. Lesson learned: it wasn't broken...I shouldn't have tried to fix it.
My larger issue is the turbo oil drain. It's connects ~3.5" up into a cavity and snakes thru an ~ 1" access slit between the oil pan and exh. manifold. It literally lays against the manifold as it passes thru this opening, and the heat deteriorates it over time. I've already replaced it once, and even w/ shielding know it's a matter of time before needing to do it again. As TomD suggested when I replaced it before... I'm going to have to find a way to install a hard pipe there.
This pic is from when it started leaking before.
.
I would give some DEI heat wrapping a shot. It's good for 500F direct contact and 2000F radiant heat. It probably won't last forever but it can be removed and replaced easy enough where that's all you're replacing and not the drain line.
I would give some DEI heat wrapping a shot. It's good for 500F direct contact and 2000F radiant heat. It probably won't last forever but it can be removed and replaced easy enough where that's all you're replacing and not the drain line...
Thanks, Jesse. I had a similar idea and used Fire Sleeve the last install. It's holding atm, but I agree... any shielding is a temporary fix.
Ideally, I'd find a way to install a hard pipe just to get past the manifold. Otherwise I may need to play the shielding game until rebuild. When I have everything apart I'll install the hard pipe. Right now the clocking is like 3-4 degrees off to install a straight pipe....easily.
except i didn’t actually post and delete it; had it written and then decide not to, hit back page, and backed out of it.
just want make sure i have it right though; you condemn me for not using the like button, but also condemn me for using the delete button. anything else you want to look into and see in my heart to pass righteous judgement on?
maybe for not using caps? it’s ok, i have broad shoulders, let her rip.
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except i didn’t actually post and delete it; had it written and then decide not to, hit back page, and backed out of it.
...you condemn me for not using the like button, but also condemn me for using the delete button. anything else you want to look into and see in my heart to pass righteous judgement on?...
Sigh...again...?
T, I did not condemn you for not using the like button...you actually had...24 times. You then said "ALL" of these were mistakes... , and...summarily deleted them . I merely "observed and asked a question" regarding an observation, which...IMV...I found odd. You can go back and re-read the exchange b/c I have not deleted it. I'll do better...It's reprinted here:
Originally Posted by jcbrx8
Team, On another...or perhaps similar note... how do you have a 22,398 post count to date, ......yet have only given 24 "Likes"?
So, barely one tenth of a percent (~0.1%) of your time among this "community"...since 2005, did you find someone else did or shared something...anything worthy of a "Like" ???
If you feel condemnation it's not from me..., perhaps... from your conscience...or common sense?
I appreciate your previous positive comment regarding Fire Sleeve b/c it contributed to the discussion at hand: products suitable to resolve the situation I'm encountering. But you offered up the bit about having "hit the back button", aka deleted it, and given your....ehh...history w/ "deleting things"... thought it's application poetic here.
So, lighten up...take off the thespian robe, and let's talk about our cars, yeah?
Well, as expected the braided SS turbo drain started leaking again. As Tom D. suggested a while back, the only permanent solution really is to find a way to install a hard pipe to extend past the manifold. So, I started w/ that as an objective this time. I was able to find a hard flex-drain pipe, but it would require removing and reinstalling the two 6mm flange mounting bolts, one of which is difficult to reach (there's always one.) TBH, the perceived difficulty of removing and re-installing those bolts was a major reason I'd not pursued a resolution requiring removing the flange previously.
As I laid under the car... staring at the bolts...I had an epiphany: the bolts were allen-head bolts, and could potentially be reached w/ a ball end hex socket. So, a trip to HF..., the flex-drain order..., a wait for delivery...; and the flex-drain is installed w/ a section of Fire Sleeve (just barely visible in the last pic) at the section nearest the mani.
Hopefully, this issue is permanently resolved. In some instances...having the right tool is everything.
. Old flange
. Old flange finally off
New flex-drain pipe installed
. Flex-drain extension past mani
. Flex-drain installed w/ a section of Fire Sleeve (barely visible here) at the section nearest the mani.
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So the hard flex has clearance from the manifold on all sides now or you just anticipate it to hold up to the heat better? Or both?
The latter. The clearance is about the same, ~ 1/8 - 3/16" - see 3rd pic in my post. But I'm optimistic the flex-pipe will hold up better to heat. Since the previous line was a "rubber-like" inner surrounded by braided SS... the heat from the mani would degrade the inner hose over time; and increasingly allow oil to seep out between the braided SS. Conversely, the flex-pipe drain is all metal, and I was able to slip a section of Fire Sleeve around it at the section closest to the mani.
You may want to periodically remove the drain tube and inspect the interior for signs of oil coking, especially if the interior is corrugated like the outside is. Though I would expect the fire sleeve to help prevent that.
You may want to periodically remove the drain tube and inspect the interior for signs of oil coking, especially if the interior is corrugated like the outside is. Though I would expect the fire sleeve to help prevent that.
Yeah, I tried to keep the line as vertical as possible nearest the mani, and used the Fire Sleeve to try to mitigate coking, but good idea... as the inside is corrugated as well.
Thanks again for suggesting use of a hard drain pipe.
09-22-2020, 10:28 PM
w/b a moderately aggressive boost level ...for my set-up, which will also yield reasonable reliability (yes, of course... relative). 
, and...summarily deleted them 
. I merely "observed and asked a question" regarding an observation, which...IMV...I found odd. You can go back and re-read the exchange b/c I have not deleted it. 
I'll do better...It's reprinted here:
, and given your....ehh...history w/ "deleting things"... thought it's application poetic here.
