Dumb Question Thread - no flaming or sarcasm allowed
#1526
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#1527
Over ride factory programing
I own a 2004 RX-8 that I bought new that year. I just started modifying it and have added cold air induction, coil over suspension, headers and a cat back exhaust. Now the only thing I need is to figure out how to override the factory program for the fuel injection, because with all I have added, it only runs a little better, and the dealer folks tell me I have to find a way to get a new program in there. Does anyone out there have any ideas? Thanks
#1528
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Yes, we have "ideas".
You have only a couple of options though, and none of them are as simple as chipping or things to fool the ECU. Our ECU is far too smart. If you manage to get it to change at all through one of these gimmicks, the ECU won't take long to correct back to what it should be.
Here are a bunch of basics:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...rx-8-a-233937/
You have only a couple of options though, and none of them are as simple as chipping or things to fool the ECU. Our ECU is far too smart. If you manage to get it to change at all through one of these gimmicks, the ECU won't take long to correct back to what it should be.
Here are a bunch of basics:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...rx-8-a-233937/
ECU Tune
(will void the warranty if found)
There is no known ECU tuning method for Series 2 (2009 - 2012) RX-8s. The ECU changed in critical ways and no company has yet been willing to spend the time to hack the ECU to determine how to flash it. These ECU points all relate only to the Series 1 RX-8 (2004 - 2008)
ECU tuning is often recommended, as it can improve a wide range of dynamics about our car, including throttle response, overall power, ECU triggered safety items such as OMP injection rate and fan trigger temp, etc... Power gains are limited to about 10hp maximum, though your gains are largely dependent on how bad the OEM tune is for your particular combination of engine and sensors.
Other debatable items such as increasing the rev limit are possible, though should be thoroughly understood before pursuing.
As for HOW to modify the ECU, there isn't much for options. There are some aftermarket full ECU replacements out there, but they are expensive and quite a bit of work. ECU tuning has some options, with the best option being through the COBB AccessPORT. A few companies put the effort into hacking the Series 1 ECU and were successful, though only COBB actively marketed a product for it full scale. They did not hack the Series 2 ECU however, and Mazda changed it enough that a full hack was needed. Too few cars were sold, too small of a possible customer base, for COBB to see the pay off in doing the work. The AccessPORT was also discontinued for all naturally aspirated cars (not factory T/C or S/C) in 2010(?). Mazdamaniac was able to negociate a deal with them where he would become the sole dealer for the RX-8's AccessPORT, COBB just needed to supply the hardware and he handled everything else. Unfortunately, even this route has come under trouble, as Mazdamaniac was banned from RX8Club.com in March of 2012 due to vendor related complaints. Whether or not he will leave the community entirely and shut down his sales/tuning of the RX-8 is still unknown. The tuning through the AccessPORT does not require his tuning services however, as there are other tuners that are successful at producing viable tunes for our car, and the AccessPORT is just a tool. The only exclusivity he had was his remote tuning service (no one else decided to offer it), and after the discontinue, the dealer sales of the AccessPORT itself. Be very wary of tuners that claim to be able to tune "because they can tune piston engines" or "because they can tune RX-7s". There are differences between older MAP based and MAF based tuning, as well as dramatic differences between piston and rotary engine tunes. Make sure that they know MAF based tuning AND rotary tuning.
The Racing Beat reflash is also a viable option, and follows a similar concept as the AcccessPORT, only you send your ECU to them, no hardware to purchase (but you don't get the benefit of the extra hardware either).
Piggyback ECUs are problematic and unreliable, but possible as alternatives.
Every single "ECU chip" is a complete scam for our car. At best it's the same as taping a couple $100 dollar bills to your ECU, at worst it can fry your $1,800 ECU. Our ECU is too smart to be fooled into doing anything more than a few miles, and the OEM tune is already close enough to perfect that the ham-fisted approach of trying to fool it in a narrow set of circumstances while crippling it in the rest is a recipe for engine destruction.
Engine Tuning subforum: Engine Tuning Forum - RX8Club.com
(will void the warranty if found)
There is no known ECU tuning method for Series 2 (2009 - 2012) RX-8s. The ECU changed in critical ways and no company has yet been willing to spend the time to hack the ECU to determine how to flash it. These ECU points all relate only to the Series 1 RX-8 (2004 - 2008)
ECU tuning is often recommended, as it can improve a wide range of dynamics about our car, including throttle response, overall power, ECU triggered safety items such as OMP injection rate and fan trigger temp, etc... Power gains are limited to about 10hp maximum, though your gains are largely dependent on how bad the OEM tune is for your particular combination of engine and sensors.
Other debatable items such as increasing the rev limit are possible, though should be thoroughly understood before pursuing.
As for HOW to modify the ECU, there isn't much for options. There are some aftermarket full ECU replacements out there, but they are expensive and quite a bit of work. ECU tuning has some options, with the best option being through the COBB AccessPORT. A few companies put the effort into hacking the Series 1 ECU and were successful, though only COBB actively marketed a product for it full scale. They did not hack the Series 2 ECU however, and Mazda changed it enough that a full hack was needed. Too few cars were sold, too small of a possible customer base, for COBB to see the pay off in doing the work. The AccessPORT was also discontinued for all naturally aspirated cars (not factory T/C or S/C) in 2010(?). Mazdamaniac was able to negociate a deal with them where he would become the sole dealer for the RX-8's AccessPORT, COBB just needed to supply the hardware and he handled everything else. Unfortunately, even this route has come under trouble, as Mazdamaniac was banned from RX8Club.com in March of 2012 due to vendor related complaints. Whether or not he will leave the community entirely and shut down his sales/tuning of the RX-8 is still unknown. The tuning through the AccessPORT does not require his tuning services however, as there are other tuners that are successful at producing viable tunes for our car, and the AccessPORT is just a tool. The only exclusivity he had was his remote tuning service (no one else decided to offer it), and after the discontinue, the dealer sales of the AccessPORT itself. Be very wary of tuners that claim to be able to tune "because they can tune piston engines" or "because they can tune RX-7s". There are differences between older MAP based and MAF based tuning, as well as dramatic differences between piston and rotary engine tunes. Make sure that they know MAF based tuning AND rotary tuning.
The Racing Beat reflash is also a viable option, and follows a similar concept as the AcccessPORT, only you send your ECU to them, no hardware to purchase (but you don't get the benefit of the extra hardware either).
Piggyback ECUs are problematic and unreliable, but possible as alternatives.
Every single "ECU chip" is a complete scam for our car. At best it's the same as taping a couple $100 dollar bills to your ECU, at worst it can fry your $1,800 ECU. Our ECU is too smart to be fooled into doing anything more than a few miles, and the OEM tune is already close enough to perfect that the ham-fisted approach of trying to fool it in a narrow set of circumstances while crippling it in the rest is a recipe for engine destruction.
Engine Tuning subforum: Engine Tuning Forum - RX8Club.com
COBB AccessPORT, or any other kind of flashing device for tuning
(will void the warranty if found)
This is more of a sub-topic of the ECU tune, but it seems that it needs it's own section, as it really isn't clearly spelled out anywhere.
The COBB AccessPORT is a tool, much like a wrench. To us, you are asking: "Can I remove my engine with this wrench?" Well, kinda. It's part of what is involved. You won't be able to make any progress without it, but even if you have that wrench, if all you do is hit yourself in the face with it, you won't get anywhere toward your goal. It has to be used appropriately, and it is simply one of many pieces that you will need to get there.
In more practical terms, the AP is nothing more than a communication device, a phone if you will. It can communicate with the OEM ECU. What it tells the ECU is entirely dependant on what information you are pushing through. If all you are pushing through is requests to clear codes, then that is all it's going to do. In order to increase the rev limit, you need to have the AP "flash" a map to the ECU.
But you have to get this map first.
Well, what is a map? A map is basically a digital copy of the ECU's parameters and tables that it uses to manage the car. Much like if you right click on a picture on the web and click "save-as" and save it to your computer. Just like that. You can upload that picture to the web if you want, and everything is exactly like it was.
But, you want a change. Lets say that the picture was of a girl with a big mole on her face. You wanted to touch that up and remove it. Well, you will use some other software to make those edits. Then you have to upload the new picture to replace the original. That's all the AP is doing when you flash a map. It's uploading the digital copy of the ECU's data files.
What tuners do, is they make edits to the data files to adjust fueling, timing, CEL blocks, rev limit changes, etc... as needed. Then they load them into the AP via USB and use the AP via ODB2 to load the flash to the ECU, applying the changes.
So you can get the AP to help you toward your goal, but you will also either need the software to make the edits AND the knowledge of what you are doing (because it's not a simple process of point and click), or you will also need the services of someone that does have the software and does know what they are doing. If you pick the 2nd option you will also need to pay them a fee of some sort, and probably work within their scheduling.
(will void the warranty if found)
This is more of a sub-topic of the ECU tune, but it seems that it needs it's own section, as it really isn't clearly spelled out anywhere.
The COBB AccessPORT is a tool, much like a wrench. To us, you are asking: "Can I remove my engine with this wrench?" Well, kinda. It's part of what is involved. You won't be able to make any progress without it, but even if you have that wrench, if all you do is hit yourself in the face with it, you won't get anywhere toward your goal. It has to be used appropriately, and it is simply one of many pieces that you will need to get there.
In more practical terms, the AP is nothing more than a communication device, a phone if you will. It can communicate with the OEM ECU. What it tells the ECU is entirely dependant on what information you are pushing through. If all you are pushing through is requests to clear codes, then that is all it's going to do. In order to increase the rev limit, you need to have the AP "flash" a map to the ECU.
But you have to get this map first.
Well, what is a map? A map is basically a digital copy of the ECU's parameters and tables that it uses to manage the car. Much like if you right click on a picture on the web and click "save-as" and save it to your computer. Just like that. You can upload that picture to the web if you want, and everything is exactly like it was.
But, you want a change. Lets say that the picture was of a girl with a big mole on her face. You wanted to touch that up and remove it. Well, you will use some other software to make those edits. Then you have to upload the new picture to replace the original. That's all the AP is doing when you flash a map. It's uploading the digital copy of the ECU's data files.
What tuners do, is they make edits to the data files to adjust fueling, timing, CEL blocks, rev limit changes, etc... as needed. Then they load them into the AP via USB and use the AP via ODB2 to load the flash to the ECU, applying the changes.
So you can get the AP to help you toward your goal, but you will also either need the software to make the edits AND the knowledge of what you are doing (because it's not a simple process of point and click), or you will also need the services of someone that does have the software and does know what they are doing. If you pick the 2nd option you will also need to pay them a fee of some sort, and probably work within their scheduling.
Last edited by RIWWP; 11-19-2012 at 01:14 PM.
#1529
I own a 2004 RX-8 that I bought new that year. I just started modifying it and have added cold air induction, coil over suspension, headers and a cat back exhaust. Now the only thing I need is to figure out how to override the factory program for the fuel injection, because with all I have added, it only runs a little better, and the dealer folks tell me I have to find a way to get a new program in there. Does anyone out there have any ideas? Thanks
The gains are not going to be huge even then - expect 5-10 extra hp but don't expect to notice any difference.
#1531
Trust Me, I'm an Engineer
iTrader: (3)
This is where you should start:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
This is a great thread that RIWWP put together.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
This is a great thread that RIWWP put together.
#1532
When I take my 8 to the dealership this winter (a new dealership that has not tested it yet) for its 3rd compression test (1st one was failing and the dealership replaced plugs, and did zoompower cleaning, 2nd one 3 months later they said it passed but just barely), should I be concerned about my racing beat intake thats installed in the car? I am not 100% familiar with the warranty wording so I want to make sure that I do not burn myself by having an aftermarket intake system installed.
Also, can you think of any reason why compression may have risen? The only variable that changed was I went from 10w-30 synthetic to 5w-20 GTX.
Also I now have a 2009 R3 starter. Would this affect the results at all? It's a bit frustrating because everything ignition related has been replaced multiple times. Only things that have not are the engine and the catalytic converter. However, the engine is still running very rough once warm.
Also, can you think of any reason why compression may have risen? The only variable that changed was I went from 10w-30 synthetic to 5w-20 GTX.
Also I now have a 2009 R3 starter. Would this affect the results at all? It's a bit frustrating because everything ignition related has been replaced multiple times. Only things that have not are the engine and the catalytic converter. However, the engine is still running very rough once warm.
#1533
Please be kind - the 'cruise maint' warning light came on this weekend while I was on a road trip....is this something that has to be checked by my Mazda dealer? I am NOT mechanically inclinde. (I know, WHY do I have an RX8? Long story.)
Nan
Nan
#1534
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2004 Mazda RX-8 80K miles
My heater has been getting worse and worse. This didn't matter when I bought the car in Hawaii or when I moved it to Southern California but I have since moved to Seattle. The car also tends to overheat a bit in 90 degree plus weather. It's my daily driver and I love it but could these problems be related (water pump)?
#1535
My heater has been getting worse and worse. This didn't matter when I bought the car in Hawaii or when I moved it to Southern California but I have since moved to Seattle. The car also tends to overheat a bit in 90 degree plus weather. It's my daily driver and I love it but could these problems be related (water pump)?
the overheating could be a lot of things but if your heater is clogged , maybe the radiator is as well .
#1537
Registered
Ok, I have one for the group. Is it possible to reprogram the air control system ( heater). Here is my problem. In cold weather both my side window and front window start to fog. Controls only allow either defrost or defrost with floor vent open. I have to keep switching between defrost and dash air to keep both windows clear. Would love it if I can reprogram this so I can get defrost AND dash air at the same time.
#1538
This might be answered by an extensive search, but unfortunately time is not on my side. Are aftermarket parts transferable from an s1 to an s2? Exhaust, springs, intake, midpipe/cat?
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
#1539
Yellow looks faster.
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Removing the battery box is the hardest thing to do ever apparently. I know there are 3 10mm bolts, but i cant get to the other 2 because the coolant hose is in the way.. It appears that the top half of the box comes apart from the lower.. how do I do this.. sorry.
#1541
Hey guys dumb mechanics question for you. I'm dying to take an automotive class or 2 because I have begun to like working on my 8 but unfortunately I really dont have much besides online sources to "learn my way" around cars. And i cant go tearing apart important parts to my 8 cause I'd break it.
Anyways, I really wanted to learn exactly how a clutch works so maybe sometime in the future I can service mine. I checked out HowStuffWorks "Fly Wheels, Clutch Plates and Friction" and got a brief overview.
So my question is, is there really nothing but friction that holds the clutch plate and the flywheel together once the springs put pressure on it, or is there more to it then that? I always thought that there were some kind of teeth almost like a gear or something. I know its a stupid question, but I find it pretty amazing after reading this website that friction is whats used to transfer the power from the engine to the transmission and vice versa, when I would thing that 2 discs put together spinning at different speeds would just cause trouble.
Anyways, I really wanted to learn exactly how a clutch works so maybe sometime in the future I can service mine. I checked out HowStuffWorks "Fly Wheels, Clutch Plates and Friction" and got a brief overview.
So my question is, is there really nothing but friction that holds the clutch plate and the flywheel together once the springs put pressure on it, or is there more to it then that? I always thought that there were some kind of teeth almost like a gear or something. I know its a stupid question, but I find it pretty amazing after reading this website that friction is whats used to transfer the power from the engine to the transmission and vice versa, when I would thing that 2 discs put together spinning at different speeds would just cause trouble.
#1542
Horn/emergency alarm system
Hello all.
Just joined with the hope that someone can help out. I have a 2004 Mazda Rx-8 no aftermarket parts. Basically, my horn works intermittently if at all. Here is what happened. I am not a learned mechanic and am far less familiar with the car than I would like, so if you could keep answers simple as a lay man would understand, I would really appreciate it:
After jumping my battery, the emergency alarm system went off and could not be deactivated by my key fob. Only thing that helped was leaving it alone for about 15 minutes and NOT touching the doors. I am not sure if this had anything to do with it but after it continued its alarm fit for about an hour, I held in my emergencies for about 10 seconds and the whole shebang stopped.
After that, my horn wouldn't work.
Brought it to the shop and they said I had a blown fuse. They replaced the fuse and the horn was working, but only the "low" horn. Couldn't hear the "high" horn. In addition, after I got home I noticed the horn was working only *sometimes*. Sequence:
Best Regards,
Katrina
Just joined with the hope that someone can help out. I have a 2004 Mazda Rx-8 no aftermarket parts. Basically, my horn works intermittently if at all. Here is what happened. I am not a learned mechanic and am far less familiar with the car than I would like, so if you could keep answers simple as a lay man would understand, I would really appreciate it:
After jumping my battery, the emergency alarm system went off and could not be deactivated by my key fob. Only thing that helped was leaving it alone for about 15 minutes and NOT touching the doors. I am not sure if this had anything to do with it but after it continued its alarm fit for about an hour, I held in my emergencies for about 10 seconds and the whole shebang stopped.
After that, my horn wouldn't work.
Brought it to the shop and they said I had a blown fuse. They replaced the fuse and the horn was working, but only the "low" horn. Couldn't hear the "high" horn. In addition, after I got home I noticed the horn was working only *sometimes*. Sequence:
- Unlocked/locked the car via key fob, horn worked.
- Unlocked/locked the car again, horn didn't work.
- Go inside cabin, honk steering horn, horn didn't work.
- Hold down steering wheel horn, horn worked after a 5 second delay.
- Honk again, horn didn't work.
- Go outside, lock my car, horn didn't work.
Best Regards,
Katrina
#1543
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Could be the control module that controls the alarm system.
I would jump the horns to see if they actually work....obviously one does..but horns do fail...so check it out. Also the wiring could have come off the side that doesn't work
If both horns work with 12v...and the wiring is good...then it is likely the control module...
I would jump the horns to see if they actually work....obviously one does..but horns do fail...so check it out. Also the wiring could have come off the side that doesn't work
If both horns work with 12v...and the wiring is good...then it is likely the control module...
#1544
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Great Idea
Finally a safe place, for someone with less than 100 posts, to ask a question with some slam protection. Gotta be brave to get started on this site.
I live to drive my RX-8.
I live to drive my RX-8.
#1545
Registered
Always look to the one thing g you did prior to the problem starting. In this case, if the problem started just after jumping the car, that is most likely the cause. If you actually did have a fuse blow, something got electrified that should not have. Relay is what I would check next also.
With today's cars, you have to be extra careful when you jump them.
With today's cars, you have to be extra careful when you jump them.
#1546
Registered
I do most of my driving short distances. Being really careful to follow the instructions on cold shutdowns, but how critical is this? Do these cars all have the problem of not starting after a cold shutdown?
#1548
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Hey,
Scenario: Took my VR 2004 to the stealership, they drove it from the back garage/lift area up to the front doors for me. I'm about to get in only to smell slight burning (like burnt clutch smell) I get in and see that they drove it with the emergency brake fully up, light on the dash and everything.
Question: what parts have been negatively affected by this? (E brake? Clutch plate?) and does this force me to replace them? Or how can I tell?
Thanks
Scenario: Took my VR 2004 to the stealership, they drove it from the back garage/lift area up to the front doors for me. I'm about to get in only to smell slight burning (like burnt clutch smell) I get in and see that they drove it with the emergency brake fully up, light on the dash and everything.
Question: what parts have been negatively affected by this? (E brake? Clutch plate?) and does this force me to replace them? Or how can I tell?
Thanks
#1549
#225 of 1000
iTrader: (7)
Hey,
Scenario: Took my VR 2004 to the stealership, they drove it from the back garage/lift area up to the front doors for me. I'm about to get in only to smell slight burning (like burnt clutch smell) I get in and see that they drove it with the emergency brake fully up, light on the dash and everything.
Question: what parts have been negatively affected by this? (E brake? Clutch plate?) and does this force me to replace them? Or how can I tell?
Thanks
Scenario: Took my VR 2004 to the stealership, they drove it from the back garage/lift area up to the front doors for me. I'm about to get in only to smell slight burning (like burnt clutch smell) I get in and see that they drove it with the emergency brake fully up, light on the dash and everything.
Question: what parts have been negatively affected by this? (E brake? Clutch plate?) and does this force me to replace them? Or how can I tell?
Thanks
are you sure they drove it with it up? because standard procedure is to yank the handbrake when you are stopped if you are getting out of the car.
maybe the dolt just burned your clutch. Did you say anything to the dealership?