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RX-8 Discussion General discussion about the RX-8 that doesn't fit in one of the specialty forums.

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:07 PM   #6776  
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Actually, it's not really safe to say that longevity/durability has any impact on efficiency or consistency. There is no law of the universe that provides for any causative or even correlative relationship. Additionally, there are likely at least a few design decisions that we know little about that could impact one and not the other.

In fact, I'm pretty certain I've read that the D585 coils used in the BHR kit really aren't more powerful. At the same dwell settings, they produce less spark than the OEM coils. It's not enough to impact an otherwise healthy NA Renesis but increasing dwell is recommended there and more or less required for FI. When increasing them significantly, it's also recommended that you run a new 12v power line for them as they'll be pulling current pretty close to the limit of what you want to do with the OE harness. That doesn't scream "more efficient" to me.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:44 PM   #6777  
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I suppose you're right about that. I never got deep into the specs of the coils. I've been planning on purchasing them in the future because of its positive reviews but I tend not to delve deep into the mechanics of Mods until I've saved up enough to purchase them. Usually I read the reviews and such when planning on purchasing to gain some sort of understanding of what it can provide and to identify the Pro's and Con's. Once I've saved up enough to make a decision I'd dive deep into the subject to fully understand what it is that I am wanting to buy. That way I know for certain whether I should go ahead with the purchase or look for something better. I guess I should do more research on the forefront of things when discovering them rather than waiting for later.

I've always figured that the BHR coils were more powerful than the OEM coils as is without any tweaking. From the videos I've seen of better hot/cold start times and what sounds like smoother idles I had assumed that BHR had a more oomph than the OEM. I did realize though that with some tuning the coils really tend to shine and show their true potential but I always figured that they were more powerful as is. Do you by any chance happen to recall where you've read about those coils? I'd like to know more about how they function.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:54 PM   #6778  
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Well, there is also the Sake Bomb Garage IGN1A kit. Slightly tempted to try it, but it's pretty pricey as well.

If you are running stock, it doesn't really matter which ones you get.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:02 PM   #6779  
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My hunch is that the cases where the BHR coil improved things it was because the coils/plugs/wires that they replaced were crap or there was some other issues.

I'm pretty certain this is the thread where I read about the d585 coil dwell. If it isn't then it the thread where I learned the most.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...ssport-178635/
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:10 PM   #6780  
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https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-as.../#post11468565

Quote:
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
LS2
2 ms charge = 630 mV peak, 0.25 ms duration
6 ms charge = 1300 mV peak, 0.5 ms duration

RX-8
2 ms charge = 630 mV peak, 0.4 ms duration
4 ms charge = 840 mV peak, 0.5 ms duration

so under 3ms charge, rx-8 coil is the best of the three
"LS2" = D585 per the thread j9fd3s links.

Few more good tidbits in both threads.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #6781  
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I feel this thread has gotten to be like an episode of "Big Bang Theory" where all the Phd's are trying to prove who is the smartest and that their theory is the best.

Obviously Charles of BHR is not giving away what mods he has done to the coils to make them work well for rotary engines. That would be dumb for business.

From our RX8 club about coil choices:

- The Best Upgrade: The BHR ignition coil upgrade can be had for around $500, which eliminates the need to continue replacing coils periodically, as well as delivering a significantly stronger spark for minor mileage and power gains. It is a proven kit with top notch customer service supporting it. It includes the wires, you still need to add plugs ($80)

- The For-Sure OEM: Mazmart sells all 4 coils of the latest OEM coil revision (C) for around $250, (just the coils, you still need to add plugs and wires) Supported by top notch customer service. They will likely last longer than 30,000 miles, but we don't have much solid data on how long the latest coil revision will last.

"Be wary of "LSx D585 coil upgrades", as not all D585 coils are created the same, and the standard generic D585 coil is not properly designed internally for the RX-8's ignition needs. They generally "work", but there are anomalies and performance issues that have to be solved, if they can be solved. Definitely NOT a plug and play option, even if it is advertised as "plug and play"

So the only definitive take away about what the BHR coils are (in their entirety) and how effective they are, is that they work well for rotary engines and last a very long time. Proven over countless thousands of miles driven by hundreds of RX8 owners.

Charles doesn't need me or anyone else to defend or promote his product. Its history and performance speaks for itself.

If anyone wants to make the hypothesis that the OEM C-coils are as good, last as long, and help your engine last as long, then fine. I have no further data to argue this either way. I will just stick with what has worked well for me and countless other RX8 owners , the BHR coils.

Best to you all !

Last edited by gwilliams6; 01-13-2018 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:06 PM   #6782  
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Not trying to make anyone feel bad about BHR coils. Just want to make sure the record's straight. BHR coils seem like a great product for certain purposes. It's important to be clear about what those purposes are and are not.

Do the coils last longer than Mazda coils? Likely yes.
Are they capable of a stronger spark with modified dwell times? Absolutely.
Do they produce a stronger spark with stock dwell times? Apparently not.
Do they make the engine last longer vs. new Mazda coils changed ever 30k? Not enough evidence either way.

That's what the data I've seen seem to show, anyway. If that's not the case, hopefully someone can correct the record.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:19 PM   #6783  
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Swapping to d585's when I blew a coil made sense. I ran on stock dwells for a couple of months and the engine ran fine.

I'm convinced that the only reason it's still running is because I had a remap done to the spark timing a few years ago after I got the 585's done. The compressions's bound to be shagged after 155k, but with enough spark anything will burn.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:31 PM   #6784  
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Sorry Iamfodi my friend, no one here knows exactly if BHR coils are just "stock" D585 coils with NO modifications. So you really can't know how they will perform at stock dwell or not. The figures you post have no validity. You just can't make the assumption that they are purely stock D585s.

If they were purely stock D585 coils, no one would need the BHR kit, just everyone put in stock D585s, and get the same performance, reliability and longevity as the BHR coils. .

Charles spends too much time and effort developing all his outstanding products , to just slap some stock D585 coils together. D585s may have been the base that he started with. But trust me he changed them to be the best performing, most reliable and long lasting kit to work well for RX8s. . No "stock" D585 coils have the same record used in RX8s.

You are relatively new to theses cars and this community. You don't know Charles like some of us do. You sell him and his products short by your assumptions.


REMEMBER:
"Be wary of "LSx D585 coil upgrades", as not all D585 coils are created the same, and the standard generic D585 coil is not properly designed internally for the RX-8's ignition needs. They generally "work", but there are anomalies and performance issues that have to be solved, if they can be solved. Definitely NOT a plug and play option, even if it is advertised as "plug and play"

Last edited by gwilliams6; 01-14-2018 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:47 PM   #6785  
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There is NO indication that they are anything BUT stock D585 coils other than Charles alluding to it. He never did provide ANY information on that, or any instructions on any alterations to Dwell that may or may not improve there output

If I recall MazdaManiac did the R&D on the coil setup anyway and Charles was the marketing and production guy.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:53 PM   #6786  
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I think it's time we do some updates to info on rx8help.com/new owner sticky now... Some of the info is a bit outdated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
There is NO indication that they are anything BUT stock D585 coils other than Charles alluding to it. He never did provide ANY information on that, or any instructions on any alterations to Dwell that may or may not improve there output

If I recall MazdaManiac did the R&D on the coil setup anyway and Charles was the marketing and production guy.
I have been doing some reading, and it seems like the coils themselves are the same. There are some people here running other D585 kits from, say, BenetteBuilt(they have a nice gas cap holder, btw) who are also running fine.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:10 AM   #6787  
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Just my point folks. We don't really know if they are just stock D585s or not. If Charles did any mods he wouldn't say. That is good business sense. Don't give away anything to competitors.

So any profound statements saying they are just stock D585s, and any absolute conclusions based on stock D585s are just speculation.

Prove otherwise, and I will believe you then.

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Old 02-01-2018, 10:54 PM   #6788  
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So I'm looking for a radiator for a friend. It's an automatic. Found a couple of AT radiators on amazon and eBay for sub $100. Are they any good?
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:09 PM   #6789  
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Links?

Don't cheap out on cooling parts - one overheat can destroy the engine.
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:12 PM   #6790  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX
Links?

Don't cheap out on cooling parts - one overheat can destroy the engine.
Amazon Amazon

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F171049310949

There are lots of these on amazon and eBay. I've seen people on here replacing their radiators with these. Just wanted to check if they're any good.
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:59 PM   #6791  
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Looks almost identical to the one I threw on my car when I snapped the nipple off the top of the OEM one. It got the job done. It wasn't great, but the car never overheated.

Regardless of what you buy. The key is installing it correctly. The AT radiator was installed with the foam surrounding it and undertray firmly fastened. It got the job done. When I replaced it with my CSF it was not done correctly and it performed much worse until the foam was secured and a new tray was installed.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:02 AM   #6792  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reoze
Looks almost identical to the one I threw on my car when I snapped the nipple off the top of the OEM one. It got the job done. It wasn't great, but the car never overheated.

Regardless of what you buy. The key is installing it correctly. The AT radiator was installed with the foam surrounding it and undertray firmly fastened. It got the job done. When I replaced it with my CSF it was not done correctly and it performed much worse until the foam was secured and a new tray was installed.
How much was yours? I can either get this or buy a used radiator. Both cost about the same. What should I do?
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #6793  
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I got it locally from a guy who knew a guy who knew I was totally screwed. So about $200. I wouldn't have done it if I had another option. The CSF was ordered the day it broke and installed the day after it came in the mail.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:13 AM   #6794  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reoze
I got it locally from a guy who knew a guy who knew I was totally screwed. So about $200.
Oh man how long have you had it for?

I also found an aluminum radiator. Do you know if this will have any fitment issues?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F401300769869
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:06 PM   #6795  
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Quote:
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Oh man how long have you had it for?

I also found an aluminum radiator. Do you know if this will have any fitment issues?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F401300769869
The description says it fits S1 MT only.

Anyways, make sure it fits an AT, since MT and AT radiators are different.
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:13 AM   #6796  
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Quote:
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The description says it fits S1 MT only.

Anyways, make sure it fits an AT, since MT and AT radiators are different.
I read that cheap aluminum radiators have fitment issues, so I ordered an OEM Denso radiator from Rock Auto for $86. Yep it said its for automatics. Matched the part numbers too. Hopefully it'll be adequate.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:50 AM   #6797  
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Renesis Porting

Whats the general consensus for porting the Renesis and its upperlimits before its unusable and unreliable?

I have someone (very knowledgeable) claiming they can rebuild and port my engine to an upper limit of 280whp but I'd be happy with 230-250. I'm thinking of rew swap for FI but currently it might not be the best choice for me as its my only car (although I won't be using it all that much as I'm currently at uni for ME) and I'm fine with just waiting until another engine goes before swapping it and FI entirely.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:26 AM   #6798  
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Probably best to have a definition of "unusable and unreliable" first. These things are relative. A lot of people would use those words to describe a bone stock RX-8.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:36 AM   #6799  
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I guess I'd say unreliable as under 30k miles and unusable as grenading the car when i put my foot on it
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:55 AM   #6800  
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Quote:
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Whats the general consensus for porting the Renesis and its upperlimits before its unusable and unreliable?

I have someone (very knowledgeable) claiming they can rebuild and port my engine to an upper limit of 280whp but I'd be happy with 230-250. I'm thinking of rew swap for FI but currently it might not be the best choice for me as its my only car (although I won't be using it all that much as I'm currently at uni for ME) and I'm fine with just waiting until another engine goes before swapping it and FI entirely.
Generally the consensus is that any porting is a waste of time, zero gains with all the reduced engine life you could ask for, may as well crumple up a wad of cash and burn it. Also who is this knowledgeable person claiming 280whp with porting because now I wouldn't trust a word they say?
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