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What are you using for alternator wiring? And ESS wiring? Coil power wiring? All stock?
I had an issue when I went to higher output coils with routing the power wires for the coils and the alternator and ESS wires too close together. I was getting interference that was messing up my signal like yours at high rpms.
What I did to fix it was to open the harness and re-route the ESS sensor wiring away from any power or ground wires that would be carrying high loads. Especially the alternator output wire that goes to the fuse box.
Other than that I don't have any.other tips for you to try.
I also had issues with going to a smaller trunk mounted battery. The alternator couldn't keep up with the loads and charge the battery fast enough.
I would be fine all day on the dyno..... no issues at all. Could beat the crap out of it for 30+ runs at a time. When I went to the track and the diff and tranny pumps and the power steering load went way up... I had strange random misfires. I cleaned up the wire routing and fixed some ground offset issues I had created with the way I wired the coils and went back to a larger battery and haven't had issues with that since.
Changing the way the factory has set things up can cause strange and sometimes random issues that take a lot of thought to figure out.
I moved the grounds around and tried all the tricks I know. Engine ground is on the rotor housing. Battery ground is on the shock tower. Positive it on the starter. No ground between engine and near the shock tower (factory ground still on passenger side of engine).
I hope that is a typo? the battery should have a very heavy ground directly to the engine. The stock rx8 has one going to between the rotor housings near the plugs.
still I don't think this will solve your issue. Did you try filtering the noise in the ecu?
I don’t see those rpm jumps being related to that though, but am not enough of an electrical guru to argue against it. Seems to me it’d drop out rather than register rpm spikes. Did you try talking to an Adaptronic Tech about it? They’ve just about seen it all.
My battery has been grounded to the rear shock tower forever. The original battery ground is now on the crossmember in front of the engine along with all the other factory stuff that grounds there. I only ran the positive cable to the back.
A metal chassis is a better ground path than any cable if the connections are clean and proper. The last part there is critical though. That’s where most people mess up.
I wire-wheeled the chassis ground point. So that isn't the issue. I will try grounding all the way back to the negative terminal on the battery (behind passanger tail light) next and see if that solves it. The directions for the IGN-1A coils (by SakeBomb) strongly recommends that you connect the harness to the battery ground and only use the chassis ground as a last resort (i'm sure this wouldn't be stressed for no reason). If this doesn't work I will be pulling the harness out and apart and inspecting everything.
Normally, I would look at other issues, but the ECU/sensors had 0 issues with the D585's and other harness and this problem only showed up following install. So it would be very bad luck for another issue entirely to arise at this time. The good news is that up until the sensors go haywire, the new coils seem to take the additional water without any hesitation as i'm hoping to load up on the water and methanol to get IATs down for some high boost pulls.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 09-01-2019 at 08:32 AM.
I have never grounded my coils at the battery and haven’t had a problem. I also mount the coils in the stock location over the ess wire and it dosn't seem to matter. I run excessivly long leads also (what I had).
I would be grounding the coils to the engine for two reasons.
1. the loop length as mentioned in the adaptronic video.
2. to avoid ground offsets that can occur when the ecu and the coil are at slightly different earth potentials.
have you got lots of dielectric grease on the coil output and spark plug? I would never have picked this as such an issue but when testing I have seen the spark exit 8mm silicone leads before reaching the plug.
Well try to remember the IGN-1A has three total ground wires and they each serve a different purpose. Just like any theory, the ground loop deal only counts when you apply it properly.
So I’ll assume that Andy never called you back for a second interview ...
Well try to remember the IGN-1A has three total ground wires and they each serve a different purpose. Just like any theory, the ground loop deal only counts when you apply it properly.
So I’ll assume that Andy never called you back for a second interview ...
.
Mines is all wired to the battery itself and never had an issue. Is your firmware up to date?
Well try to remember the IGN-1A has three total ground wires and they each serve a different purpose. Just like any theory, the ground loop deal only counts when you apply it properly.
So I’ll assume that Andy never called you back for a second interview ...
.
well at least your consistent, put downs, no usefull information or explanations and covering you tracks and edditing posts when you post miss-information and conjecture.
well done.
please tell us the function and explain a reason for each of the earths. Oh wait it's because you can't!
I have never grounded my coils at the battery and haven’t had a problem. I also mount the coils in the stock location over the ess wire and it dosn't seem to matter. I run excessivly long leads also (what I had).
.
Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it can't be a problem.... crosstalk between plug wires is hardly a rotary only problem.... and will go up with the increase in coil output.
As for the signal interference on the ESS sensor wire..... I know that was an issue in my car...
Clean pull to 7,500 RPMs in 3rd. Hope it wasn't luck. Didn't pull as high on the other blasts, but no sensor glitch detected. Hope this is the end of this saga. I would follow the Sake Bomb instructions about grounding to the battery (even if its on the opposite side of the vehicle).
IATs 111-132F (+21 F) on this pull from 35-95 mph with about 700 cc/min of injection and 35% ethanol
19-21 psi
Acceleration ~9.6 MPH/S through 3rd gear.
Ambient is about 85 degree's and humid.
Everything felt smooth
Next move? Upping elbow nozzle from 500cc/min to 1000cc/min? Trying some spark plugs without grounding straps (bigger gap)????? Current dwell settings are 3.5 ms from 0-4,000 and 4 ms from 4,000 to 8,000 (assuming high load here).
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 09-02-2019 at 10:59 AM.
well at least your consistent, put downs, no usefull information or explanations and covering you tracks and edditing posts when you post miss-information and conjecture.
well done.
please tell us the function and explain a reason for each of the earths. Oh wait it's because you can't!
Probably more a lack of humor, too much pride, bristling up too easily, and the general idea that you have clearer picture and understanding about any of this, either me personally or my intent, or what’s really going on in general behind the scenes.
I actually did explain each ground about two or thee weeks ago, but did it through PM direct to him
there’s the Pin B ground for the 5V trigger wire; that’s the one he found broken the other day, that is essentially an ECU grounding point
there’s the Pin C ground for the spark plug discharge; that’s the most important one for the coil to output efficiently which is why they specifically state to attach it to the cylinder head/rotor housing the coil is firing to and nowhere else
there’s the Pin E ground for the battery power supply, do I really need to explain that?
The information is all over the web, but you have to sift through all the c&b no different than here. Lance at Pantera EFI is very accessible and open to explaining it all if you want to reach out to him.
regardless, sounds like some progress was made. Looking forward to seeing some good results.
Good news Stroker ! Are your iats measured after the meth injection nozzle ? 132F seems dangerously high to me if that is what's actually going into the engine ?
Probably more a lack of humor, too much pride, bristling up too easily, and the general idea that you have clearer picture and understanding about any of this, either me personally or my intent, or what’s really going on in general behind the scenes.
I actually did explain each ground about two or thee weeks ago, but did it through PM direct to him
there’s the Pin B ground for the 5V trigger wire; that’s the one he found broken the other day, that is essentially an ECU grounding point
there’s the Pin C ground for the spark plug discharge; that’s the most important one for the coil to output efficiently which is why they specifically state to attach it to the cylinder head/rotor housing the coil is firing to and nowhere else
there’s the Pin E ground for the battery power supply, do I really need to explain that?
The information is all over the web, but you have to sift through all the c&b no different than here. Lance at Pantera EFI is very accessible and open to explaining it all if you want to reach out to him.
regardless, sounds like some progress was made. Looking forward to seeing some good results.
can you provide a link to a source that states pin C is for the spark plug discharge or coil output efficiency?
Yes the IAT sensor is in the factory REW UIM location, but since it is so close to the motor it reads background heat soak (touch a REW UIM on a running car and you'll know what I mean). Before I did that pull I cruised for a good 10 minutes with no load. Since the ambient was 85 F and I was reading 111 F at the UIM, it was more likely the actual incoming air was closer to 85 F with a +26 heat-soak reading. So if I had to guess the true charge air temp, I would say it was closer to 111 F (134-26). If that makes any sense.
I am probably putting in the 1000 cc/min (currently 500 cc/min) in the elbow next and keep the 500 cc/min pre-turbo. So if I set the "on" point at 10 psi and the "full" point at 30 psi, I should get progressive linear injection of 50:50 something like (and i'm aware that its probably not this progressive, just helps for calculations)...
Yes the IAT sensor is in the factory REW UIM location, but since it is so close to the motor it reads background heat soak (touch a REW UIM on a running car and you'll know what I mean). Before I did that pull I cruised for a good 10 minutes with no load. Since the ambient was 85 F and I was reading 111 F at the UIM, it was more likely the actual incoming air was closer to 85 F with a +26 heat-soak reading. So if I had to guess the true charge air temp, I would say it was closer to 111 F (134-26). If that makes any sense.
If the thermocouple of the sensor is in the airstream and not really close to the wall of the manifold then the reading should be correct I would think. Does this mean the methanol isn't really doing it's job to cool the charge ?
We shall see when I get the bigger injector in there. 700 cc/min may not be enough to supersaturate the mixture. IATs could be much higher without it, but I don't wanna chance turning it off for science. On the previous D585's I would get too much break-up to increase nozzle sizes.
08-30-2019, 04:46 PM
