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While everyone is on the subject good testing video where they review 15 different coils, reliability aside.
I'm not sure if the "D595/LQ9" coil is the exact same as the D585, but they look the same. Those came in at 11th place with 29.3 millijoules. The IGN-1A came in first with 102.7 millijoules....
While everyone is on the subject good testing video where they review 15 different coils, reliability aside.
I'm not sure if the "D595/LQ9" coil is the exact same as the D585, but they look the same. Those came in at 11th place with 29.3 millijoules. The IGN-1A came in first with 102.7 millijoules....
Too bad the ign need heat sinks to work effectively. But he did say the ls1 coils work well enough for N/A. So maybe Z coils for you?
2nd place was 1/2 the output (54 mJ) as the IGN-1A. What I’d like to know is how much lower you could run IGN-1A dwell and still crank out good output. They talked a lot about dwell, then gave no information, but I can appreciate the time cost investment that went into all of those tests.
forgot I do have some tests that were run about 9 or 10 years ago
Update - Replaced the bad trailing coil pack from the rear rotor, car idles a bit smoother now. Took the car out again and still was getting some misfires at 17-20 psi. Changed plugs even though they looked fine just because they are so cheap, checked each coil with a HEI and they all fired normally, upped dwell up to 3.8, and I still was getting spark blowout/misfiring under heavy load.
I decreased the water injection nozzle at the turbo from 500 cc/min to 250 cc/min, leaned out the mixture a bit, and upped the dwell to 4.0 ms from 4,000 to 8,000. Took the car out yesterday and she pulled clean to 8k on multiple pulls with 88 degree ambient and high humidity.
I think the high humidity in conjunction with water injection is just a bit too much for the ignition system right now. It was perfect on those cold nights with low humidity, now not so much.
The car hasn't shown any real knock on 93 octane plus water/meth injection at 17-20 psi. On all the 3rd gear pulls at this power level I seem to have plateau'd at 9 MPH/S in 3rd gear (my record with ethanol at high boost was 11.60 MPH./S or something like that). Recirculating the down-pipe robbed some horsepower as well. I don't see much point in filling up with E85 and running 25 psi right now as its hot, humid, and frequent rains as the car may sit for weeks at a time.
Plan is just to let the system pickle with 93 octane for the next 3-4 months and drive it occasionally. Once the weather becomes more favorable, I will fill it up with ethanol and see how high I can push it with 7,300 cc/min of injector capacity. At 8,000 RPMs, 25% ethanol, and 17-20 psi, i'm at 72.5% injector capacity. I probably can make it to 30 psi with 60% ethanol if I trim the boost down to 25 psi from 7,500-8,000.....
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-02-2019 at 07:35 AM.
Here in Puerto Rico they inject methanol without water 500+rwhp. With shell 91 gas pump they take between 400 to 500rwhp street car. All 13b street/racing use 110 or 116 sunoco. If you wanth your engine last you need to go with good fuel after 420+. Here only have 91,93 and some gas station with 100oct. No e85.
Here they are injecting vp-m1 without water and it is working.
So far I am using LS2 Coil without problems.
Last edited by gamaliel31; 07-03-2019 at 11:57 PM.
I have just reread this entire post and didn't realize how long its been since I started this journey. I decided to post up a timeline of sorts as a reference. Hopefully if you decide to go REW you can avoid many of the mistakes I made. I'll probably add more in the future, just want to get a rough timeline in.
Purchased the car in early 2005, and never did a single modification until late 2014. The car had a huge oil leak from the front cover or front main seal so I decided if I was already pulling motor, I may as well just toss a REW motor back in.
November 2014 to January 2015 - I purchased a JDM 13b-REW engine with FD Transmission for $1350 shipped to my driveway. You can tell the motor was raced a bit as it had APEXi intake and a 3 puck clutch in it. The front rotor was completely blown with apex seal debris everywhere in the front rotor. Purchased a used E-weight rotor for $200 and a used rotor housing for $250. Spent $600 from atkins on all the required seals, springs, and gaskets, and had the housing resurfaced for $300. Rebuilt the motor watching two guys from New Zealand or Australia (who can tell) on YouTube.
January 2015 to December 2015 - Fabricated the turbo manifold, waste-gate routing, and down-pipe. Had to fabricate oil lines. Build the fuel system. Modify the Renesis front cover. Change radiators. Pipe the FMIC in. Wire in all the ECU stuff and gauges. Resurface flywheel and install clutch. Modify the UIM and purchase LIM. Weld Throttle body mount onto Greddy Elbow. Modify Greddy Elbow to go directly onto UIM. Made a custom MAF. Lot of work to get everything to work.
December 2015 - Started the car for the first time and began basic tuning, breaking in the motor, and using very little boost. I had like a 6 pound waste-gate spring in with no boost control.
December 2015 to March 2017 - Spent like 15 months learning the tuning software and fixing minor issues. I changed the tune 100 x in this period. Didn't do a whole lot because of other commitments.
March 2017 - Couldn't push past 10 psi without spark blowout. Switched over to D585 coils.
April 2017 - Began pushing the boost into the teens.
May 2017 - My old Precision T64E blew (because I began pushing it) and shot oil inside of the down-pipe. Installed a BW S362SXE. Spool was much better.
July 2017 - AEM Water/Methanol system installed for insurance up at 20 psi.
August 2017 - Fuel delivery issues above 15 psi. S1 canister and AEM 340 LPH fuel pump inadequate. Went to a S2 canister and added an external Bosch 044 pump and surge tank. fuel pressure fixed.
September 2017 - Chipped an apex seal doing a third gear pull at 20 psi. Had been getting a lot of knock in the previous days. Never really found out what the issues was, my best guess was the plugs were too hot (heat range 9). I always use 10's and 11's now.
November 2017 - Rebuilt the motor.. Apex seals didn't do any damage on the way out of the engine. Went from Atkins to RA Super Seals. Did some additional porting on the irons (partial half-bridge). Swapped to a 5-speed transmission.
December 2017 - Swapped over to a 15" wheel and 235/60/15 DR. Street tires were useless on anything above 15 psi.
January 2018 - Lot of issues with glowing manifolds and the turbine. I added about 10 degrees of timing in all of the idle and low load tables and it all went away.
January 2018 to September 2018 - Did hundreds of pulls on the car up to 24 psi. I would always get random knock events. Not terrible, but noticeable. Came to the realization that some combination of ethanol would be necessary to push the car any harder.
September 2018 - Added flex fuel sensor, swapped the Bosch 044 for the new AEM 400 LPH Bosch Style fuel pump.
October 2018 - Quickly maxed out the 725/1000/1000 cc/min injectors on each rotor. Was nearing 100% duty cycle on 8,000 RPMs, 50-55% ethanol, and 20 psi. Purchased two 1,650 cc/min injectors from member. Capacity increased from 2,725 cc/min (5,450 cc/min total) to 1000/1000/1650 (7,300 cc/min total).
November 2018 - First time to track. Got three runs in, the clutch let go on every pass. Single 6 puck sprung disc was rated to like 400 lb/tq never had a change of holding. New SPEC twin disc rated to 800 lb/tq was installed with 2 sintered iron discs. Very graby, chatters at low speed, no breakin required, and never slipped. Master and slave also changed.
December 2018 - Second time to the track. Clutch held on all three passes, but now there is little "give" in the drive train so tire shake and wheel hop galore. Ran a best of a 13.0 flat with trap speeds in the mid teens. Also found the big issue with launch control on the Adaptronics as only the drive wheel is monitored so any massive wheel spin lifts the 2-step off, which equals higher RPMs and more spin.
January 2019 - New differential bushings in to help with wheel hopping. Modified exhaust for open dump. First pull at 22-24 psi and I had my highest ever Delta rate for RPM with an acceleration through 3rd gear at 11.68 MPH/S which is about 2.57 seconds from 70 to 100 mph. Also went back to the track for my third time with this car. First pass the boost was turned down to 22-23 psi and had massive wheel-hop and a terrible 60 foot, but was able to trap 97 mph in the 1/8th mile, but blew a vacuum line off and limped through the 1/4 mile.
March 2019 - While out doing pulls, an exhaust sleeve in the front rotor housing blew out and sealed up the engine. Rebuilt the motor and extended the bridge port out as far as possible to give the most port area. I also swapped in a performance organic disc in place of one of the sintered irons discs between the floating plate and flywheel. This has softened up the drive-train a bit and the car is a bit easier to drive on the street and hopefully more forgiving at the track.
May 2018 - Have recirculated the waste-gate at the cost of some power, car is super quiet now under heavy load. Enjoying the car at 17-20 psi and 93 octane.
Also throughout this process, I have gone through approximately 40 spark plugs and a dozen coils. I have also done everything possible to modify the cooling system to keep everything from melting down. The best solution I have found is not to drive it when its hot outside.
For the fall and winter, my plan is to take it back to the track and see if the changes to the clutch make it easier to launch. Also want to push the turbo up to 30 psi and see if the current injectors will be enough....
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-10-2019 at 02:12 PM.
I believe the coils suck up too much power and would melt the rx8 factory harness, which is why the coils require their own power source. It requires a special harness that I see goes for a few hundred. Then I have to get all new custom plug wires cut. I'm not even sure there is enough room to mount them, etc. Its just too easy when a D585 coil fails, I usually just buy 2 for like $75 and that buys me another 8-12 months.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-11-2019 at 06:58 AM.
I bought the sakebomb ign-1a a while ago and its not that expensive. Its a good bet for making more power, have reliable ignition that also makes a better spark. They do require a bit more wiring but nothing major. At your power level these would be a good purchase
The amp draw is dwell dependent. Harlan ran them off the RX8 15A ignition fuse circuit and never blew a fuse. Which that’s why the fuse is there. Most people won’t need more than 3mS dwell. The ground needs to go to the rotor housings though. I’d feel comfortable running them off the OE harness, but the aftermarket suppliers all cover the bases by running them direct off the battery with larger wiring and fuse.
The D585 pulls 7A at 5 mS, so if you stay low-mid 3 mS dwell it should be fine. The output is still blowing the D585 out of the water. If you want to run them at super high output then you need the dedicated battery power harness.
Well if that's the case, I may just try to purchase 4 coils and some pigtails and wire them directly into the factory rx8 harness (once the D585 fail). The IGN coils have 5 wires... The stock rx8 coils have 3 wire (if I remember) and the D585 have 4-wires,. which is just the 3 wires that go to the rx8 harness (meant for stock coils) plus a dedicated ground. So what is that 5th wire for??? A dedicated +12v source?
Which back then I didn’t have the understanding I do now. The coil draw is not continuous; 4 coils operating at 5A doesn’t equal a 20A total draw on the wiring.
Just fyi for anyone not interested in making their own harness, here is a lower costing, direct powered IGN-1A harness, but still a bit expensive imo considering what it is
Here’s some info on dwell vs A vs V; looks like a turbo setup could run up to 4.5mS dwell safely for a direct connect harness. I’d recommend staying at or below the 6A dwell settings on your ecu dwell map unless you have battery connect harness that can handle the higher amps.
Per request of Mad666. This is my current timing map I run. No glowing or odd backfiring down low, good response, no knock, . It may be a little different since the bridge likes timing down low and I idle at 1700-1800 currently.
As you can see i damn never full advance in by 2700-3000 in low and moderate loads.
The second map may be of very little use to you as its my E85 advance map. I have used up to 8 degrees advance with E85 at the higher boost levels, this is a bit more conservative version of that.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-13-2019 at 09:40 AM.
18-19 psi is probably around 450 rwhp or so I would guess. Spool in the hot months is 10 psi by 3900 RPMs (full boost 4,500). Spool in the cold months I have hit 10 psi by 3,400 RPMs (full boost by 4,000).
I think Howard Coleman stated that a rotary needs 65 lb/min from a turbo to produce 500 rwhp, and that with a S362SXE you would need ~20-22psi to reach that number. I assume I am not that efficient and would probably need a bit more for 500rwhp.
If takes 65 /lb/min to hit 500 rwhp with the 362, and it flows 75 lb/min max, I would assume with the turbo turned up to max I could only ever make around 576 rwhp.....
18-19 psi is probably around 450 rwhp or so I would guess. Spool in the hot months is 10 psi by 3900 RPMs (full boost 4,500). Spool in the cold months I have hit 10 psi by 3,400 RPMs (full boost by 4,000).
I think Howard Coleman stated that a rotary needs 65 lb/min from a turbo to produce 500 rwhp, and that with a S362SXE you would need ~20-22psi to reach that number. I assume I am not that efficient and would probably need a bit more for 500rwhp.
If takes 65 /lb/min to hit 500 rwhp with the 362, and it flows 75 lb/min max, I would assume with the turbo turned up to max I could only ever make around 576 rwhp.....
Thank you. I need to buy new turbo and everyone recommended buy that turbo. I will buy it or if you are going to sell it let me know.
Just a video of Dragy GPS I made. Boost gauge in video is wrong. Nowhere near 30 psi. The dam Prosport gauge reads vacuum correctly, but is way off on the upper range of the boost gauge...
Blew the tires off in first gear with my Mickey Thompson 15" drag radials so 0-60 time is relatively slow. You can see the front of the car swaying like a boat. Also up a 2 degree incline.
Trap speeds are in kilometers per hour so i'm not going that fast... (mph reading is incorrect) If you listen carefully you have hear me just kiss the 8,200-8,300 limiter at the shift as you can hear the ignition cut and subsequent backfire...
Vimeo screwed up the sound while compressing. Not sure if you can fix that..
Are you doing boost by gear? That’s pretty damn good times spinning and crab walking all of 1st dude. Also could be road surface preventing putting power down. Once I figure out how to register out of state I can follow your guide doing a build. Thanks for all of the content.
I only use boost by gear in 1st with the drag radials on. Its limited to about 15 psi.. Obviously the road conditions have at lot to do with it as I wasn't building much boost anyway in first with the tires spinning.
If you watch the boost gauge, the turbo doesn't seem to spool that fast once its making positive pressure. I guess you really shouldn't expect more from a $700 turbo. I bet an EFR turbo would really wake up the power after shifts with boost ramping much harder... Maybe a 9180 or 8474 is in the future If the motor survives my planned 30 psi pulls in the fall.
Just looking for some confirmation that i'm not losing my mind here.
My MAP sensor on the Adaptronics Select is getting is getting worse. I only read about half the vacuum that I should (confirmed on two different gauges). I decided to go external MAP sensor so swapping sensors in the future is a 30 seconds job and i'm not having to mess with replacing the internal unit on the Select.
Against my better judgement I purchased a china-bay GM 3 bar MAP sensor for $12. It was actually recommended on a domestic car board as a good alternative to a OEM GM 3 bar sensor.
Now that i am reading the ad, I should have caught on that they say a 3 bar MAP sensor is good for 44 psi, and we all know its actually like 29 psi.....
Installed the sensor in the factory location and wired the reference wire into the Select unit. Adaptronics is reading the new sensor just fine.
Here is the real weird part. We all know a MAP sensor uses a simple 0-5 volts, 0 volts being really high vacuum and 5 volts being max boost (in this case 29 psi).
At no vacuum/0 psi the sensor is outputting 2.7 volts. Seems high, but ok.
When I put 30 psi into it with my air compressor it reads like 4.6 volts, seems a bit low but ok.
When my car is idling at -11 inches of HG the sensor reads like 3.5 volts????? WTF. I would guess it would read somewhere around 1.5-2 volts.....
Seems to me like this sensor can read pressure correctly as noted above, but it is also reading vacuum as pressure.
0.5 psi is 1 inch of Hg, so at -11 inches of Hg its effectively -5.5 psi as the MAP sensor sees it.... But based on the voltage its reads it as 5.5 psi....
As you can see it looks like the chinabay MAP sensor is well, made in China and is a piece of ****.
Anyone have any recommendations for a good 3 or 4 bar map sensor that won't break the bank and is well made????
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 08-03-2019 at 07:28 AM.
Well they should provide a V vs P graph for checking it against, but for $12 you probably got what you paid for
from what I gather a lot of people use the GM 3 bar map sensor on RX7club. Seems a lot cheaper than the high resolution 1.2 bar sensor I bought for my NA engine; some things aren’t worth being too cheap on.
06-24-2019, 07:55 PM
(mph reading is incorrect) If you listen carefully you have hear me just kiss the 8,200-8,300 limiter at the shift as you can hear the ignition cut and subsequent backfire...
