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Old 07-26-2010, 09:09 AM
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Fernado Alonso vs. The World -The Movie

Got to love Alonso and how he can say he didn't know why Massa let him pass him. Well its pretty easy, You cried and your team bent over willing and took it up the ****.

This year Alonso true face is showing and I am having a freaking ball here. Almost every Major scandal in the past 4 years, you can find Alonso 1mile away from it (cough cough crashgate ). From his whining in last 3-races proves he was the reason Mclaren let him go. This guy will cry his way to top and do anything to win. Him and Ferrari are a perfect match, they both love to talk crap, but cant back it up.

I give Ferrari this though, the ppl who actually work on the cars did a awesome job gettting the car up to pace.

F1's harsh spotlight of the international media is shining on Ferrari and Fernando Alonso, but also the regulation prohibiting team orders.

In a frosty post-race press conference at Hockenheim, some reporters warned Spaniard Alonso he now risks winning a "dirty" championship, comparing his win at the hands of an illegal team order to his victory at Singapore in 2008.

"That's your opinion," the Ferrari driver told them.

Team orders, of course - dating back to the gentleman racer's days when number two drivers would pull into the pits to hand over their cars - are nothing new.

"This was just handled very badly," said Lotus' Mike Gascoyne.

And Ferrari's handling in Germany, with Felipe Massa ordered aside by way of a coded message from apologetic engineer Rob Smedley, fuelled the media's fire.

"I am glad that the media in the paddock are kind of like our police," remarked Alex Wurz.

But according to Spain's Marca sports daily, "the English press showed no mercy" for a driver who clashed so memorably with Lewis Hamilton back in 2007.

The Sunday Express called Alonso and Ferrari "dirty, thieving cheats", while even the milder Daily Telegraph admitted that the World Motor Sport Council could in theory disqualify the famous team from formula one at an August meeting.

"A suspension for a number of races is another possibility," said the Daily Mail.

Triple world champion Niki Lauda scolded Alonso for blatantly denying he had won the race thanks to a team order. The Independent newspaper said "nobody was fooled" by Alonso's argument that he wasn't aware of the fix.

"I've never heard a driver talk such bullshit. He has no character," said Austrian great Lauda.

Dr Helmut Marko, under fire for some recent decisions at Red Bull, revelled in the change of fortune.

"It is unbelievable how awkwardly they demonstrated who is their number one. The FIA must react with a drastic punishment," he is quoted by Blick.

The Swiss newspaper's correspondent agreed: "There are different ways for Alonso to return to the throne. Lying and cheating should not be one of them."

Even the usually partisan AS newspaper remarked: "Alonso deserved to win the German grand prix, but not like this. Domenicali has confirmed his true ineptitude by giving Massa obvious team orders that are prohibited by the rules."

Said Brazil's Folha de S.Paulo: "It was an insult to the sport."

Rio de Janeiro's Lance added: "We regret writing it, but from Massa it was a lack of courage."

Rubens Barrichello, whose move for Michael Schumacher in 2002 motivated the team order ban, said: "I will speak to Felipe myself. Nothing has changed at Ferrari.

"I think you can read my opinion better from my face," he stormily told Brazilian radio Jovem Pan.

Said French newspaper Liberation: "Ferrari is a team unlike another; when not undermined by political intrigue, they shoot themselves in the foot."

La Libre wondered how the FIA is going to react at the World Motor Sport Council: "Would Jean Todt dare punish his old team for a practice he applied himself? We honestly doubt it."

Another side of the story is what Renault's customer engine boss Fabric Lom described on Europe 1 radio as the "hypocrisy" of the current regulations.

Agreed Italy's Corriere dello Sport: "It is fair to recognise that the problem is in the regulations."

Rome daily Il Tempo said Ferrari "did the right thing in the wrong way", and Spain's El Mundo said the team order ban is "a regulation that penalises team interests".

Italy's Autosprint marvelled that Ferrari was "fined for teamwork!"

Said Britain's Telegraph: "Ferrari were caught and they must pay. But the rule is unenforceable. To pretend otherwise is deluded."

Mercedes' Norbert Haug does not quite agree: "We need to think of the spectators. They want to see fights on the track, not these actions.

"The different teams have different attitudes about team orders."

To the Spanish press, Alonso argued: "The ones who pay us are the team, not the newspapers or anyone else, and now Ferrari is taking 43 points back to Italy.

"And that is what we have to do -- what is best for the team. On Friday I was faster, I was second in qualifying and faster than Felipe in the race. I don't think the slower driver won this race," he added.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11007262...nd-team-orders

Last edited by alfy28; 07-26-2010 at 09:21 AM.
Old 07-26-2010, 10:32 AM
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I hate it.
Alonso is the best driver of the circus and we all know this so they could have at least waited another 10 laps to see what was going to happen. Massa was locking the tyres in EVERY turn to keep him back... Alonso was clearly faster.

Since McLaren, Renault, RedBull and Ferrari all give team order why should be so stupid to do it openly? Tell Massa that he's got an oil problem, a transmission problem, a brake overheating problem, that he's running out of fuel...
Nope, we ALWAYS have to show to the world how stupid we are.
Old 07-26-2010, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Alonso

To the Spanish press, Alonso argued: "The ones who pay us are the team, not the newspapers or anyone else, and now Ferrari is taking 43 points back to Italy.

"And that is what we have to do -- what is best for the team. On Friday I was faster, I was second in qualifying and faster than Felipe in the race. I don't think the slower driver won this race," he added.
I had very little respect for the man from his years at Renault and McLaren, but whatever sliver was left is now gone. Talk about an utter lack of character and moral fiber. Machiavellian tactics to a tee. Not unexpected from Ferrari, but what self respecting individual would want to win this way? If you have a set of stones, pass him on the track, not by crying to the team. I'm ashamed to share a country of origin with that man.

To add fuel to the fire, I'll compare him to his most hated rival - remember Hamilton's podium in Turkey? Yeah, that's the face of a person who knows his victory didn't come through sheer effort, as much as his rivals incompetence.
Old 07-26-2010, 10:53 AM
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I hated him and his attitude when he drove for Renault & McLaren. I actually thought he had matured after coming to Ferrari.
I don't understand the hate presently toward Alonso for what happened on Sunday. It was a team decision. Not his. There has been no report of him asking the team to have Massa let him buy. If there is, point out the article.
Old 07-26-2010, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
I hated him and his attitude when he drove for Renault & McLaren. I actually thought he had matured after coming to Ferrari.
I don't understand the hate presently toward Alonso for what happened on Sunday. It was a team decision. Not his. There has been no report of him asking the team to have Massa let him buy. If there is, point out the article.
Much like there wasn't a "team order", the request was implied when he whined "this is ridiculous!" while behind Massa. And that was still while Massa was going purple on all sectors. Minutes later, Smedley was on the radio "informing" Massa that Alonso was quicker and to "confirm he understood the message".

For the record, it's not just his recent actions. I, like you, thought he had matured, but his actions show otherwise and that speaks volumes.
Old 07-26-2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Christianv
Much like there wasn't a "team order", the request was implied when he whined "this is ridiculous!" while behind Massa. And that was still while Massa was going purple on all sectors. Minutes later, Smedley was on the radio "informing" Massa that Alonso was quicker and to "confirm he understood the message".

For the record, it's not just his recent actions. I, like you, thought he had matured, but his actions show otherwise and that speaks volumes.
What race did you watch? Massa was losing a couple of tenths per lap, not pulling record sectors when he said it was ridiculous. To keep his advantage massa was locking the brakes and taking useless risks for the team.
Alonso complained about that, not about the fact that massa was in front.
The team order, although a good one, was given in the wrong way and this created the whole mess.
Old 07-26-2010, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bse50
I hate it.
Alonso is the best driver of the circus and we all know this so they could have at least waited another 10 laps to see what was going to happen. Massa was locking the tyres in EVERY turn to keep him back... Alonso was clearly faster.

Since McLaren, Renault, RedBull and Ferrari all give team order why should be so stupid to do it openly? Tell Massa that he's got an oil problem, a transmission problem, a brake overheating problem, that he's running out of fuel...
Nope, we ALWAYS have to show to the world how stupid we are.
Yah its pretty dumb since Alonso was faster out of the 2. Massa was having issues with his tires, it was only a matter of time th at Alonso could of passed him up.

Reading from other forums, the post i have been reading I would think that Alonso was posting them him self. The excuse i hear the most is, Vettle would of caught up to Alonso, and that vettle would of passed him. Which maybe true, but can they honestly say that Vettle would of passed Alonso?

They keep saying how a wonderful driver he is and how he is the best on the track, but show that they do not have faith in his driving skills. If Alonso the god of F1, I am pretty sure he can hold the likes of Vettle.



As for Vettle I just find him annoying. When he crashed his car with Webber the first time this year, he try to blame it on Webber. Even after he viewed the tape he still try to pin it on Webber. The kid is a awesome driver, but only when he races him self.

Its funny he can get 1st place on qualify, but the very next day all that work goes down the drain. I just love watching him get so much pressure when the races starts that he Fxxxs it all up.

Silverstone I couldn't stop laughing, but yesterday race? my god that guy had me rolling as if i was smoking the good smoke. Watching him trying to cover one driver and fail then moved off to next, but only to fail was just freaking hilliarious. The guy was so lost , I really wonder what he was thinking when all this happen. I bet a tear came dripping from his eyes, i know taht my eyes drop some tears, because due to laughing so hard. Since I DVR it, all i did was instant replay that whole start up.

Last edited by alfy28; 07-26-2010 at 11:20 AM.
Old 07-26-2010, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bse50
What race did you watch? Massa was losing a couple of tenths per lap, not pulling record sectors when he said it was ridiculous. To keep his advantage massa was locking the brakes and taking useless risks for the team.
Alonso complained about that, not about the fact that massa was in front.
The team order, although a good one, was given in the wrong way and this created the whole mess.
Bse oh come on now buddy, we know that the real reason why that comment was made because he couldnt get pass massa. If the role was reversed he would of the done the samething that Massa done. A driver does what it takes not to get passed up. If alonso that frustated, then he shouldnt be racing at all.

When FA said that, Massa started to pick up the pace.
Old 07-26-2010, 11:56 AM
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Uhm.. maybe he's just psychologically frustrated because of his poor night time performances then and wants to show to the world that he's got DA PAUAH to do whatever he wants rofl!
Old 07-26-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bse50
Uhm.. maybe he's just psychologically frustrated because of his poor night time performances then and wants to show to the world that he's got DA PAUAH to do whatever he wants rofl!

LMAO, or he is huge hypocrite


One who respects the rules is ninth, and the one who does not respect them is second," Alonso is quoted by the Spanish sports website as.com.
He was also critical of the time it took the stewards, this weekend including former grand prix winner Heinz-Harald Frentzen, to reach the decision to penalise Hamilton.

"It seems it was very difficult to watch a replay; it takes many laps," said Alonso sarcastically.

"Everything is against us. They allow everything and it's a shame the public has today seen a race that is not quite real."
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11006272...milton-penalty
Old 07-26-2010, 12:43 PM
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oh one more i have to post

Ferrari's rage against the outcome of the European grand prix went from bad to worse on Monday.

With Fernando Alonso having accused the stewards of manipulating the Valencia race, the Italian team echoed the apparent view of some fans that Lewis Hamilton's drive-through penalty for overtaking the safety car was a "scandal".

But in another website report on Monday, Ferrari stepped up its attack, repeating the view of one fan that had hit out at "McLaren thieves" who were "up to their usual dirty tricks".

Another fan said: "The FIA at Valencia showed it's not entirely in charge of the events that it's organising", and yet another added: "Is this the latest version of Jean Todt? Those who order and manipulate are always the same."

Ferrari quoted another fan as saying: "Federation of clowns! What help is a five-second penalty? Useless and the usual English mafia!"

And another: "Enough with the help for Hamilton. How can he lie and cheat and still get away scot-free?"

Mirror correspondent Byron Young wrote on Twitter that in "Max Mosley's day", there would be "sanctions" for accusing the FIA of fixing races.

When the rage intensified on Monday, he added: "Are the FIA going to act or will Jean Todt dodge the first big F1 test of his presidency?"
Old 07-26-2010, 01:05 PM
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Just because the fia clearly helps hamilton it doesn't mean that the red ****** in charge of ferrari now can do whatever they want.
They had the means to do a clean race but wanted to show to the world that they too can do whatever they want when, in fact, they already showed that they stepped up the game making a car that equals the redbull project and is a step beyond mclaren's.
Meh, it's like winning mr olympia and complaining that the second was hitting some juice.
Old 07-26-2010, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
... Alonso, after the pass, was pulling fastest laps of the race after the pass and Vettel was gaining on Massa. If the pass didn't happen, Alonso would have been put in a bad situation of having to defend the 2nd place position against Vettel as Massa was only 1 sec. ahead of Vettel at the end of the race.
Originally Posted by alfy28
Yah its pretty dumb since Alonso was faster out of the 2. Massa was having issues with his tires, it was only a matter of time th at Alonso could of passed him up.

Reading from other forums, the post i have been reading I would think that Alonso was posting them him self. The excuse i hear the most is, Vettle would of caught up to Alonso, and that vettle would of passed him. Which maybe true, but can they honestly say that Vettle would of passed Alonso?

They keep saying how a wonderful driver he is and how he is the best on the track, but show that they do not have faith in his driving skills. If Alonso the god of F1, I am pretty sure he can hold the likes of Vettle.
As you can see, that was what I was saying. However, if the pass didn't happen, Alonso and Vettel could have crashed while battling for 2nd. That wouldn't have helped either team.
Old 07-26-2010, 01:20 PM
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Whitmarsh plans private talk with Ferrari about team orders

McLaren Mercedes F1 Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh declared that he is planning a private talk with Ferrari to let them know his views on the team orders controversy during yesterday's German Grand Prix.

Ferrari was fined $100.000 and could face further sanctions from the FIA's World Motor Sport Council for illegally using team orders.

After the race, Whitmarsh said: "I don't want to get drawn into it. I have my own private views on it. They were quicker than us today; they got a 1-2, but perhaps in a different order from that which people may have thought was right.

"I will give my private views to Ferrari, but I don't want to go on record and express those views."

The team boss added: "You can go back to the late 90s and all sorts of times when things have happened - but we decide to race. I think having our drivers racing, in the longer term, is a healthy thing to do for this team.

"That is my decision and that is what we want to do. Others do what they want to do, and it is for the FIA and Ferrari to determine what they think is right. We were racing our two guys until the end of the race."

Whitmarsh probably forgot that in 2008, in about the same corner as Alonso passed Massa yesterday, Lewis Hamilton overtook Heikki Kovalainen quite easily as it was Hamilton who had more points in the championship than his team mate.


http://www.f1technical.net/news/1519...la+One+news%29
Old 07-26-2010, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
As you can see, that was what I was saying. However, if the pass didn't happen, Alonso and Vettel could have crashed while battling for 2nd. That wouldn't have helped either team.
Aln lol do you really think that would of happened? I mean ppl are always battling between spots, so what makes those drivers different from pass races. I highly doubt that would of happend, and if it would of happen, what makes Massa vs vettle any different then Alonso vs Vettle (beside points).

So bascially they swapped 1 red car for the other to battle Vettle.

Last edited by alfy28; 07-26-2010 at 01:45 PM.
Old 07-26-2010, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
Whitmarsh plans private talk with Ferrari about team orders

McLaren Mercedes F1 Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh declared that he is planning a private talk with Ferrari to let them know his views on the team orders controversy during yesterday's German Grand Prix.

Ferrari was fined $100.000 and could face further sanctions from the FIA's World Motor Sport Council for illegally using team orders.

After the race, Whitmarsh said: "I don't want to get drawn into it. I have my own private views on it. They were quicker than us today; they got a 1-2, but perhaps in a different order from that which people may have thought was right.

"I will give my private views to Ferrari, but I don't want to go on record and express those views."

The team boss added: "You can go back to the late 90s and all sorts of times when things have happened - but we decide to race. I think having our drivers racing, in the longer term, is a healthy thing to do for this team.

"That is my decision and that is what we want to do. Others do what they want to do, and it is for the FIA and Ferrari to determine what they think is right. We were racing our two guys until the end of the race."

Whitmarsh probably forgot that in 2008, in about the same corner as Alonso passed Massa yesterday, Lewis Hamilton overtook Heikki Kovalainen quite easily as it was Hamilton who had more points in the championship than his team mate.


http://www.f1technical.net/news/1519...la+One+news%29
True hamilton did pass up Heki quite easy, and he also passed up the drivers ahead of Heiki to .
Old 07-26-2010, 01:46 PM
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Where is Polo when we need ferrari needs him the most. Think ill send him a PM.
Old 07-26-2010, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by alfy28
Aln lol do you really think that would of happened? I mean ppl are always battling between spots, so what makes those drivers different from pass races. I highly doubt that would of happend, and if it would of happen, what makes Massa vs vettle any different then Alonso vs Vettle.
You have 3 drivers battling for the lead within 1 sec of each other. Possibly with Alonso not trying very hard to pass in fear of taking both Ferrari's out. Yes, I can see a wreck between Alonso and Vettle a very real possiblity.
Old 07-26-2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
You have 3 drivers battling for the lead within 1 sec of each other. Possibly with Alonso not trying very hard to pass in fear of taking both Ferrari's out. Yes, I can see a wreck between Alonso and Vettle a very real possiblity.
Same here and we've seen it at the start of the race. Alonso didn't even release the throttle as they were approaching the wall
Old 07-26-2010, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
You have 3 drivers battling for the lead within 1 sec of each other. Possibly with Alonso not trying very hard to pass in fear of taking both Ferrari's out. Yes, I can see a wreck between Alonso and Vettle a very real possiblity.
Glad we have our own view of the race. I just find it funny that Ferrari swap out a driver who is slowest to battle someone who is really fast, in the sake of not crashing both cars . which really confuses me even more, if ferrari was that scared that one of the their cars will crash with an RB car, then it shouldn't have matter if Massa stayed in 1st. Both cars are painted red.
Old 07-26-2010, 03:03 PM
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Ferrari preferring Alonso is no real surprise

But we digress. On the other hand, of course, there are the defenders of Ferrari’s actions. F1 is, despite sometimes looking different, a team sport. Teams shell out vast amounts of money travelling around the world to bring home two prizes – the drivers’ championship and the teams’ one. This has a number of consequences for their conduct during the race. It means the maximum amount of points must always be scored; it means whichever of the drivers appears most likely to win the championship is preferred, if only in a de facto way. It means they have to keep their ‘star’ driver happy. In this case, few would contest that Fernando Alonso is more of a star than Felipe Massa. Ferrari’s management obviously believe that they are doing better to back the Spanish horse than the Brazilian one. And that, sadly enough for those who want to see a fair fight between team-mates, is the teams’ prerogative. A fair fight between team-mates is a rarer thing in F1 than most people believe.

That situation exists in other teams as well. It was a little galling today to see Red Bull team principal Christian Horner mock Ferrari for the ‘most obvious team order’ he had ever seen, when his team preferred one of their drivers over the other at Silverstone. It is not a difficult thing to understand, the idea, and so it gets a little wearing when team principals pretend it doesn’t happen. It might not be so ‘obvious’, but whether it is options on parts, access to set-up information, human relationships or the perception of his pace, one driver will always be a step ahead of the other.

Ferrari today pretended that they were not preferring a driver. They specifically told Massa not to move over, which would have been blatantly illegal, but merely that Alonso was faster than him. Massa hung himself, goes the argument, by letting Alonso by. The line, then, between ‘a team organising itself in the optimal way for the race result’ and a ‘team order’ is a very fine one. That they were simply doing the former is presumably what Ferrari will be arguing if and when they appear in front of the WMSC.

But no-one believes that they were simply defending themselves from Vettel. Everyone knows that Alonso is the man Ferrari want to win more races for them. That shouldn’t really be a surprise to anyone.
http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-...real-surprise/




My friend Aln does.

Last edited by alfy28; 07-26-2010 at 03:05 PM.
Old 07-26-2010, 05:36 PM
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Am I the only ferrari enthusiast left wth some brain?
Old 07-26-2010, 07:38 PM
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see alnielsen.. "Oh ****, Ferrari's on pole." lol.
Old 07-26-2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bse50
Am I the only ferrari enthusiast left wth some brain?
Nah dude. But you and the other Tifosi here are the only ones I can stomach for any amount of time.
Old 07-27-2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
Whitmarsh probably forgot that in 2008, in about the same corner as Alonso passed Massa yesterday, Lewis Hamilton overtook Heikki Kovalainen quite easily as it was Hamilton who had more points in the championship than his team mate.
If I remember correctly Kovaleinen and Hamilton were on different strategies at that point. Hamilton had changed tires and was battling for first place. Kovaleinen was on the end of his tires and was driving slowly and not in a position where he was competing with Hamilton.

There is no reason to block your team mate if you are not competing with him. And considering that Kova was 20 seconds behind (one pit stop) they surely weren't competing. Then it is the right thing to do to let your team mate pass.

However Alonso and Massa were both going for no 1. That is quite the big difference in my book, when you ask a driver to surrender the 1st place. And that is why there was no scream about it in 2008 when Hamilton passed Heikki, but there is a lot of outrage now.

As for all the people hating Alonso. I agree with Aln that it was not his fault. Granted Alonso has been making noises "This is ridiculous", "I am faster, let me pass" for team order. But it was still the team who gave the order who must take responsibility.

I for one like team orders and I find driving with tactics as a team fascinating. However, it is forbidden and then there should be a penalty for it. More than a $100k pocket money fine.

I also believe Alonso deserved to win that weekend. He had been driving like the devil himself the entire weekend (that is praise from me). I believe he would have pushed past Massa on his own given 10 more laps after stressing Massa to pieces. However at that point Vettel would also pass Massa so I understand why Ferrari did what they did for the sake of securing a 1-2 and 25 points for Alonso.

Only problem is that it is forbidden and I hope Alonso gets disqualified for this. Not because he did something wrong, but to take those 25 points away that Ferrari wanted him to have. It is the only way to penalize Ferrari.


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