9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hey vukovi, why don't you start your own thread and stop thread crapping?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

exactly, start your own freaking thread.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

yea sorry man, I am trying to work through this situation and I think your interjections will just confuse people.

can you delete that post please? once you start a new thread feel free to post a link to your thread in mine. I am ok with that

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

I was looking around at 3mm seals (as it is not somehting I previously considered) and on Goopy website he mentioned race applications only but street soon to come? ( will email him I guess).

who are other suppliers (reputable) for 3mm seals?

and what about 1 peice vs 2? and what about corners?

damn the NRS are $715 a set at pineapple...ugh....almost want to go there

bse50

I wouldn't consider anything other than Mazda or Iannetti seals. NRS should be ok but still, there's Iannetti

For your application i'd see stock rx8 seals. Don't waste your money.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

hey NYCGPS....did you mean Chips MS or Chris MS?...couldnt find a "rotary" website.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

even with a plan for boost in the next year to year and a half?....dont get me wrong I like cheaper

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

After much thought and research I went with OEM Mazda seals even though Rob was trying to talk me into ceramics When this one blows I'll go ceramic.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

yea that is just not going to be in the books (not spending another 2k now) ....but milling the rotors to 3mm is kind of "on the table"....I need a week to mull this over (and after I figure out if the e-shaft, housings or Apex's are my problem then I can think more clearly

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Let me know man, we can have a charity BBQ or something to help out with all of our builds

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

think of it this way

3mm seals can handle more boost and detonation better, but sealing will not be as good as 2mm.

1 piece vs 2 piece and even stock 3 pieces(NLA right now) is that

1 piece will be stronger for mid/higher rpm, but it sucks at idle and start up.

2 pieces is like a balance between both

3 pieces is actually good for both, but sometimes it will create some problems in the groove. Mazda is actually thinking about using 3 piece seals again. but right now 2 piece is what they use and that works well.

1 piece is always cheaper (ceramic) cuz it's just 1 piece, no cutting no milling.



I'm using NRS, it has not seen any miles, but it starts on the first try and Sven knows his stuff, he is working on re-chroming the rotor housings right now, things are looking good, when it's ready it will be another option for those with 12A to give their housings a fresh new start, and cheaper option than buying another new 13B housing from Mazda (some 13B housings are NLA already)

No doubt about Dr. Iannetti's seals, my next build will be using Iannetti's seals, either FD or my Rx-8. Mazda did ask for Dr. Iannetti's help to develop this seal.

Chips MS. my bad

chipsmotorsports

OEM Mazda works fairly well for almost all applications, good thing about Ceramic is that it's very easy on the chrome housing and have better sealing than cast iron Mazda seals (cuz it has some self lubricate ability, so the springs are stronger = better sealing)

but when it breaks, both iron and ceramic will pretty much destroy your whole engine.

some softer seals like Groopy does not break apart, it will warp. a lot of 7 guys swear by it. but I am just gonna sit back and watch, cuz that's what the 7 guys said about RA Super seals when it first came out. look what happen now.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

I didnt even see this post.....I am sure that I can whip up something people would buy

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

this may help--i am running the rx7 mazda turbo seals--almost twice as tall but remains 2 mm wide
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=diffe...9,r:0,s:0,i:77

now think of a post in the ground--which one is easier to move back and forth--the post that is 1 foot in the ground or the post that is 2 foot into the ground?.
2mm tall apex seals--thats the ones I am sold on.
Do not get 3 mm seals for a street driven car--is what I have been told by many a rotary builder

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

yea I'm not, sticking with OEM more than likely. interesting going with the taller seals....damn you with the options

I think my primary focus is to figure out why I didnt have compression and I just dont beleive that the Atkins cryo treated seals are really the whole issue

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

well after cleaning up my housings I am going to have to say they are screwed! there are a few spots with strange wear....hard to photo but check it out

also I left the dark staining on for the first photos but after that they are all cleaned with acetone













and on a side note +1 for Charles...too bad it wasnt my problem!!!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Those chatter marks don't look good bro. So that has to be an apex seal issue right?

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

I am not convenced they wernt screwed to begin with but I am going to "try" to withhold judgement until after I measure the e-shaft

and you know the chatter marks are really only a small part of my concerns.....you can see strange "spot" wear on the edge of both housings.....why would that happen if the housings or e-shaft wernt "off center/canted"

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

most of the compression isapex and side seals and housing surface......Strange thing is the Atkins seals usually wear in and provide good initial compression...I would be suspicious of your old housing surface. What did the irons look like?

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

irons look good with no crazy wear, I will get them wiped down and photo'd tomorrow (hopefully with rotors and e-shaft as well)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

If you need help cleaning or anything let me know.

vukovi

As I recall my initial post asked about that, but folks just said I needed to crack it open b4 they could help assess... well I did, and I would be happy to start my own thread, as opposed to ... 'crapping' ... whatever that is... sounds fabulous though, thanks for being empathetic to the newbie nature I am clearly exhibiting.

I need yall's help. However it is best to request I am happy to do so... Although I request your sympathy as I adjust to the culture of the forum.

Thanks,

Vuk

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Goopy may be able to save those housings--I think they can probably can. That sure would save some money and you would have a true flat surface for the new seals.
If those chatter marks developed at such a low rpm/low load as you where doing then that indeed would be strange.
Note of interest--those clean areas on your rotors is a testament to how good the omp works for the side seals!
Many builders dont like changing the rotors main bearings unless absolutely required. They tell me they "mate " to each other. I do wonder if the front bearing wear could have been caused by the difference between the e shaft wear and a new bearing in the rotor? IDK for sure --just a thought.

Glad to give you another option concerning the seals. I cant tell you how many times Cam at Pettit Racing and RickE/Paul at Mazmart have talked me out of using anything other than a mazda seal and to NOT use ceramics for my street car. They tell me to get a set of X seals--put them under a microscope and see for myself if I dont believe them. You also have to be careful about the wear ratio--seals and housings are made to have comparable wear ratios --aftermarket ones ( excluding the ceramics) dont. Be smart --use Mazdas seals

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

Vuk, not trying to be a dick just working through some tough stuff and as you will learn its hard to get a straight answer sometimes so as little confusion as possible helps simplify what you have to weed through

ify ou want to post a link to your thread in mine go for it you will get some good visibility but honestly the best way is to put a little time into your thread so you wont get flamed

let me know if you need anything.

houstonrx8er

iTrader: (8)

yea, OEM it is.....to much of the same feedback to ignore

the bearings in my last motor were shot...actually showing bronze (or copper cant remember) these new bearing are starting to show the same wear....on just 1 edge of the bearing....something is just and I just need more machinist tools

at this point esp if I have to get a new e-shaft.....I might as well get brand new housings to go with my brand new irons (assuming they are not fubard...more to come tonight).

9k you are more than welcome to come help (I am out of town this weekend though ), I still have 2 rotors and all of the seals, springs and a final inspection of the irons to go, then another order that I am sure my wife will love me for.....just paid off the last build (with out inccuring interest and I got a hell of a lot of CC point (ps...thats how I am selling it ot the wife...vacation ))

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Just a little fun fact...

Chatter marks, compression, bearing wear, wear on the irons. All are most likely steaming from an unbalanced assembly. I am coming to the conclusion that the original reman's assembly was not matched right and overtime warped the eshaft.

My theory is the new bearings were placed in and the now the previosuly warped eshaft has caused even more damage in less time. This is due to the fact that it no longer has its seat and needs to make a new one in the bearings.

It's a long shot but I know of at least 3 people running Atkins seals with no issues. This is a reoccurring problem and the only pieces we have no taken out of the equation is the assembly.

Austin in the spirit of saving money I suggest you send off your rotating assembly for balancing. reuse an old housing from your previous engine versus getting a Goopy coating. The folks at Goopy knows their stuff and I had a very long chat with them at sevenstock.

At this point I feel slightly responsible as well and want to get this thing back online ASAP.