an RX8er's rebuild thread
07-07-2012, 11:02 PM
#1202
na...same engine same thread 
Here are some photos and comments...... hopefully I get a good response. Thanks again SARX you guys rock....started at 9ish and by 9 everything is disassembled and all the Irons and Housings are cleaned and sitting on my table
Initial things are:
1) Wear seems VERY similar in the bearing and irons leading me to believe the e-shaft (that I had checked by a machinist) was not properly measured.
2) there was a good amount of oil in the LIM….what does that mean??? (picture is more of a technicality)
3) Significant amount of carbon for only 1500miles and note the very odd “carbon free” area on every rotor face? I assume this a "clean spot where the "leak" was occuring?......probably the answer the compression issue?????
4) Some very strange wear on the housings it almost appears to be rust?(housings were slightly used Atkins)
5) oil in the housing/chamber……Shady seemed concerned about this but I just chalked it up to spinning the motor and we made a mess but better safe than sorry.
6) 1 of the Apex seals was most certainly still glued but I cannot confirm that was the case with all of them
Overall pretty tired and going to call it a night, I will post pictures of the rotors, seals and springs tomorrow
Oh and just because I like the foam
Here are some photos and comments...... hopefully I get a good response. Thanks again SARX you guys rock....started at 9ish and by 9 everything is disassembled and all the Irons and Housings are cleaned and sitting on my table
Initial things are:
1) Wear seems VERY similar in the bearing and irons leading me to believe the e-shaft (that I had checked by a machinist) was not properly measured.
2) there was a good amount of oil in the LIM….what does that mean??? (picture is more of a technicality)
3) Significant amount of carbon for only 1500miles and note the very odd “carbon free” area on every rotor face? I assume this a "clean spot where the "leak" was occuring?......probably the answer the compression issue?????
4) Some very strange wear on the housings it almost appears to be rust?(housings were slightly used Atkins)
5) oil in the housing/chamber……Shady seemed concerned about this but I just chalked it up to spinning the motor and we made a mess but better safe than sorry.
6) 1 of the Apex seals was most certainly still glued but I cannot confirm that was the case with all of them
Overall pretty tired and going to call it a night, I will post pictures of the rotors, seals and springs tomorrow
Oh and just because I like the foam
Last edited by houstonrx8er; 07-08-2012 at 11:19 AM.
07-08-2012, 08:21 AM
#1206
mans thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Good job on the speed of the removal and teardown
Many questions:
1- that bearing wear occurred in 1500 miles????
2- chadder marks on the housing?
3-what the heck are the circular "stains" on that one housing?
4- you definitively had different leaks going on.
5- oil control ring/scrapper rings not doing their jobs? the oil is very very clean too. do you still have the pellet in the e shaft?
6- are the irons ok?
7: why are the lim secondary's so clean?
Many questions:
1- that bearing wear occurred in 1500 miles????
2- chadder marks on the housing?
3-what the heck are the circular "stains" on that one housing?
4- you definitively had different leaks going on.
5- oil control ring/scrapper rings not doing their jobs? the oil is very very clean too. do you still have the pellet in the e shaft?
6- are the irons ok?
7: why are the lim secondary's so clean?
07-08-2012, 09:24 AM
#1207
mans thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Good job on the speed of the removal and teardown
Many questions:
1- that bearing wear occurred in 1500 miles???? my concer ....balance issue?
2- chadder marks on the housing? not sure here either...it almost looks like rust
3-what the heck are the circular "stains" on that one housing? again rust
4- you definitively had different leaks going on.....yea big ones
5- oil control ring/scrapper rings not doing their jobs? the oil is very very clean too. do you still have the pellet in the e shaft? something to loon at and yes to the pellet
6- are the irons ok? they look good
7: why are the lim secondary's so clean? not sure here either....lots of oil in places I wouldnt expect it
Many questions:
1- that bearing wear occurred in 1500 miles???? my concer ....balance issue?
2- chadder marks on the housing? not sure here either...it almost looks like rust
3-what the heck are the circular "stains" on that one housing? again rust
4- you definitively had different leaks going on.....yea big ones
5- oil control ring/scrapper rings not doing their jobs? the oil is very very clean too. do you still have the pellet in the e shaft? something to loon at and yes to the pellet
6- are the irons ok? they look good
7: why are the lim secondary's so clean? not sure here either....lots of oil in places I wouldnt expect it
Last edited by houstonrx8er; 07-08-2012 at 09:36 AM.
07-08-2012, 09:32 AM
#1208
here is a better photo of the rotor....all the faces look pretty much the same
also most of the side seals had this same discoloration on the end that lines up to what I beleive is the trailing edge of the apex (the 2 clean corners on the rotors). there didnt seem to be any odd wear on the edges of the side seals (for whatever thats worth)
also most of the side seals had this same discoloration on the end that lines up to what I beleive is the trailing edge of the apex (the 2 clean corners on the rotors). there didnt seem to be any odd wear on the edges of the side seals (for whatever thats worth)
Last edited by houstonrx8er; 07-08-2012 at 09:38 AM.
07-08-2012, 01:26 PM
#1210
somewhat but I am not convincenced that "balance" is the whole problem. I am wondering if the thing is bent. I will order a new dial indicator and do my own test......I am seriously considering sending it off to get balanced though.
07-08-2012, 01:50 PM
#1212
yep and I measured the journals for consistency and tolerance .....they are good to go in that aspect. I do not have v-blocks and the appropriate dial indicator so I asked Bowman to spec out of round for me....I think he put it in his lathe.
07-08-2012, 06:19 PM
#1218
it is interesting that the markings on the rotor faces are more or less equal on both sides.
That plus that bearing wear........ how high have to revved that e shaft before? Maybe it has flexed on you?
Remember that post of mine about balancing?? Sorry--couldnt help myself--i will now slap myself in the face..
I think I saw an image of baby Jesus in the carbon on that rotor face!!
That plus that bearing wear........ how high have to revved that e shaft before? Maybe it has flexed on you?
Remember that post of mine about balancing?? Sorry--couldnt help myself--i will now slap myself in the face..
I think I saw an image of baby Jesus in the carbon on that rotor face!!
07-08-2012, 06:31 PM
#1219
Those "clean" marks are from the oil injection...
There is definitely something wrong with the e-shaft or the stationary gears. Or one of the irons is warped enough that the bore isn't straight anymore
As for the Aitkins seals...I know of a significant problem with there seals in full height 13B applications...and I would expect with similar metal and finishing they would be even worse in an RX-8 application. If you are going to do a build for "stock" type power outputs you can't go wrong with Mazda seals.
There is definitely something wrong with the e-shaft or the stationary gears. Or one of the irons is warped enough that the bore isn't straight anymore
As for the Aitkins seals...I know of a significant problem with there seals in full height 13B applications...and I would expect with similar metal and finishing they would be even worse in an RX-8 application. If you are going to do a build for "stock" type power outputs you can't go wrong with Mazda seals.
07-08-2012, 07:40 PM
#1220
it is interesting that the markings on the rotor faces are more or less equal on both sides.
That plus that bearing wear........ how high have to revved that e shaft before? Maybe it has flexed on you?
Remember that post of mine about balancing?? Sorry--couldnt help myself--i will now slap myself in the face..
I think I saw an image of baby Jesus in the carbon on that rotor face!!
That plus that bearing wear........ how high have to revved that e shaft before? Maybe it has flexed on you?
Remember that post of mine about balancing?? Sorry--couldnt help myself--i will now slap myself in the face..
I think I saw an image of baby Jesus in the carbon on that rotor face!!
and I have rev'd to redline several times throuhout the last motor and the 1500 miles of this oneThose "clean" marks are from the oil injection...
There is definitely something wrong with the e-shaft or the stationary gears. Or one of the irons is warped enough that the bore isn't straight anymore
As for the Aitkins seals...I know of a significant problem with there seals in full height 13B applications...and I would expect with similar metal and finishing they would be even worse in an RX-8 application. If you are going to do a build for "stock" type power outputs you can't go wrong with Mazda seals.
There is definitely something wrong with the e-shaft or the stationary gears. Or one of the irons is warped enough that the bore isn't straight anymore
As for the Aitkins seals...I know of a significant problem with there seals in full height 13B applications...and I would expect with similar metal and finishing they would be even worse in an RX-8 application. If you are going to do a build for "stock" type power outputs you can't go wrong with Mazda seals.
well the plan was to prepare for boost next year and 3mm or ceramics wernt in the cards
I guess I will look at rebuild seal kit and new apex's
Last edited by houstonrx8er; 07-08-2012 at 07:43 PM.
07-08-2012, 11:04 PM
#1224
do u see any marks on the e-shaft? it's pretty easy to measure the run outs. you can get some v-blocks for cheap. and a set of dial indicator is cheap too.
Balancing is not an issue here. and I don't think it's your E-shaft going bad.
even it is a brand new E-shaft is cheap (compare to any older Rotary E-shaft at least)
but don't buy it yet, if I were u I am gonna measure the runout on the e-shaft first, and press new stationary gear bearings in (also cheap)
You should really toss those Atkins out, I rather you use Groopy than Atkins, but if it's me again, I just gonna either use Mazda, cuz Mazda did explain why they don't harden the whole seal, just the tips.
or use Ceramics (Dr.I or NRS)
if you are going boost next year, you might as well mill the Rotors now. Chrismotorsports can do it cheaply and easily. check them out.
Balancing is not an issue here. and I don't think it's your E-shaft going bad.
even it is a brand new E-shaft is cheap (compare to any older Rotary E-shaft at least)
but don't buy it yet, if I were u I am gonna measure the runout on the e-shaft first, and press new stationary gear bearings in (also cheap)
You should really toss those Atkins out, I rather you use Groopy than Atkins, but if it's me again, I just gonna either use Mazda, cuz Mazda did explain why they don't harden the whole seal, just the tips.
or use Ceramics (Dr.I or NRS)
if you are going boost next year, you might as well mill the Rotors now. Chrismotorsports can do it cheaply and easily. check them out.
Last edited by nycgps; 07-08-2012 at 11:07 PM.
07-09-2012, 07:58 AM
#1225
do u see any marks on the e-shaft? it's pretty easy to measure the run outs. you can get some v-blocks for cheap. and a set of dial indicator is cheap too.
Balancing is not an issue here. and I don't think it's your E-shaft going bad.
even it is a brand new E-shaft is cheap (compare to any older Rotary E-shaft at least)
but don't buy it yet, if I were u I am gonna measure the runout on the e-shaft first, and press new stationary gear bearings in (also cheap)
You should really toss those Atkins out, I rather you use Groopy than Atkins, but if it's me again, I just gonna either use Mazda, cuz Mazda did explain why they don't harden the whole seal, just the tips.
or use Ceramics (Dr.I or NRS)
if you are going boost next year, you might as well mill the Rotors now. Chrismotorsports can do it cheaply and easily. check them out.
Balancing is not an issue here. and I don't think it's your E-shaft going bad.
even it is a brand new E-shaft is cheap (compare to any older Rotary E-shaft at least)
but don't buy it yet, if I were u I am gonna measure the runout on the e-shaft first, and press new stationary gear bearings in (also cheap)
You should really toss those Atkins out, I rather you use Groopy than Atkins, but if it's me again, I just gonna either use Mazda, cuz Mazda did explain why they don't harden the whole seal, just the tips.
or use Ceramics (Dr.I or NRS)
if you are going boost next year, you might as well mill the Rotors now. Chrismotorsports can do it cheaply and easily. check them out.
maybe I will look into 3mm seals...I am here again I might as well right?