Rotarygod's rotary oil tech blog
09-11-2006, 02:02 AM
#251
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Originally Posted by New Yorker
only Mazda recommends "non-synthetic" oil—and for only one of their cars: the RX-8.
09-11-2006, 02:06 AM
#252
Originally Posted by New Yorker
Nice try, but… no. While every manufacturer recommends their own dealers for service, only Mazda recommends "non-synthetic" oil—and for only one of their cars: the RX-8.
where does mazda state that for cars in na?
and that little inseret does not count..
beers
09-11-2006, 07:03 AM
#253
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
That's a very closed minded way of thinking. You are assuming that I am going to take what I see and base solid conclusions on it. That's just as bad as believing a TSB for no other reason than the fact that Mazda released it without knowing why. What I really want to do is to see all the info that I can get on each oil, and then analyze the data. It doesn't mean I will come to any conclusions but at the very least I will learn what approaches different companies take towards oil formulation. There is still something worthwhile out of it. The pursuit of knowledge on a topic doesn't neccessarily mean the end result will be a solid conclusion. If it leads there then great. If not, hopefully I will come away with something that I didn't know before.
The thing that even the best most thorough oil analysis can't tell anyone is how any of the oil base stocks were formulated. In other words, we can't tell whether or not one is synthetic or not. It would take a long time to understand why this is so. It would be nice to see if there were any additives or other components that could be common to oils that seem to cause issues. Maybe or maybe not but to say that "you're not going to learn anything" is a pretty inaccurate statement. I learn because I want to. Others don't learn even though the information is right in front of them in big letters and they are actually reading it. To each his own though. I and many others will get something good out of it. The good I've already gotten out of my research is that I found an oil that I feel is best for my use. That made it all worth it.
The thing that even the best most thorough oil analysis can't tell anyone is how any of the oil base stocks were formulated. In other words, we can't tell whether or not one is synthetic or not. It would take a long time to understand why this is so. It would be nice to see if there were any additives or other components that could be common to oils that seem to cause issues. Maybe or maybe not but to say that "you're not going to learn anything" is a pretty inaccurate statement. I learn because I want to. Others don't learn even though the information is right in front of them in big letters and they are actually reading it. To each his own though. I and many others will get something good out of it. The good I've already gotten out of my research is that I found an oil that I feel is best for my use. That made it all worth it.
09-11-2006, 01:04 PM
#255
Originally Posted by CarAndDriver
Does anyone know who makes the Mazda USA oil filters? It's FRAM (blech) for Canada, but not so in the US.
it's a solid piece
09-11-2006, 01:19 PM
#256
Originally Posted by CarAndDriver
Does anyone know who makes the Mazda USA oil filters? It's FRAM (blech) for Canada, but not so in the US.
Now I only use WiX(RG recommeneded) and K&N, no issues.
09-11-2006, 01:23 PM
#257
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I did some checking on different synthetics. Not all Amsoil oils are straight synthetics! Some are synthetic blends. Even their true synthetics are blends of Group III and Group IV base stocks. I had been mentioning that they were all Group V oils but this is wrong.
09-11-2006, 02:10 PM
#258
2005 Black RX-8 GT 6M
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH
made by Mahle, an European OEM parts supplier for many Euro brands. It even says 'Mazda Europe' on the oil filter
it's a solid piece
it's a solid piece
09-12-2006, 08:45 AM
#259
Ayrton Senna Forever
Great topic! Unbeliavable, that there are always so many new things to learn about oils and lubrication.
A liitle off topic but I just have to say, I'm on Mobil-1 0w-30 (in europe) and everything is fine after 15000miles with the car, never flooded. I change the oil after every 3000 miles. I'm courius why Yamamoto-san said those words about Mobil-1 products.
A liitle off topic but I just have to say, I'm on Mobil-1 0w-30 (in europe) and everything is fine after 15000miles with the car, never flooded. I change the oil after every 3000 miles. I'm courius why Yamamoto-san said those words about Mobil-1 products.
09-12-2006, 11:26 AM
#261
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I've known people to run Mobil 1 in rotaries before with no issues. Even if it potentially leaves more deposits than some other oils (maybe), if the engine is driven sufficiently it shouldn't be an issue. Nevertheless that is one that Mazda found to be an issue for some reason. I suspect that it is more an issue on the engines that people drive too easily and never rev up high. My RX-7 had nothing but conventional in it before I owned it but due to being babied it's whole life, it had massive carbon inside it.
09-13-2006, 07:18 AM
#267
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I've been using Castrol GTX for quite a long time now. My RX-8 is getting Castrol GTX 5-20 from my dealership (I'm a pre-order enjoying the free maintenance deal), or so they say on the paperwork anyway, which is great because that's what I will be using in it when I have to change it myself (1 year to go on the free stuff). Unless I decide to go synthetic, of course, which would no doubt be Royal Purple.
09-13-2006, 07:51 AM
#268
Ayrton Senna Forever
[QUOTE=nycgps]Or maybe Yamamoto-san just hate mobil cuz they dont sponsor Mazda !!!!
Maybe.
more thoughts: 1.Mobil-1 products is changing frequently, usually after every second year. 2. The newest Mobil-1 prospectus proudly says, that there are swelling additives in these oils for better sealing. Is it time to worry about our side seal's O-rings, or are these additives in every oils?
Maybe.
more thoughts: 1.Mobil-1 products is changing frequently, usually after every second year. 2. The newest Mobil-1 prospectus proudly says, that there are swelling additives in these oils for better sealing. Is it time to worry about our side seal's O-rings, or are these additives in every oils?
09-13-2006, 08:13 AM
#269
Originally Posted by ayrton012
Maybe.
more thoughts: 1.Mobil-1 products is changing frequently, usually after every second year. 2. The newest Mobil-1 prospectus proudly says, that there are swelling additives in these oils for better sealing. Is it time to worry about our side seal's O-rings, or are these additives in every oils?
more thoughts: 1.Mobil-1 products is changing frequently, usually after every second year. 2. The newest Mobil-1 prospectus proudly says, that there are swelling additives in these oils for better sealing. Is it time to worry about our side seal's O-rings, or are these additives in every oils?
Im pretty sure to say the mobil 1 we see nowdays is NOT the same as the mobil1 from 5 years ago.
09-13-2006, 10:15 AM
#270
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Each manufacturer recommends a certain oil for use in their cars. A lot of outside money comes in from oil companies. Mazda would prefer that you use nothing but "their" oil. I guarantee Mobil 1 isn't paying them anything. Neither are most other oil companies.
Oil is constantly changing. The classifications keep changing. The API has actually lowered their standards on occassion. Case in point is our current oils. We actually have fewer detergents in them now than we did several years ago! Believe me this isn't a good thing. If you look at a can of oil and see what classification in meets, if it doesn't meet the current level, don't be disappointed. I have always stated that API standards are minimum standards but they also have maximum standards which is silly. Race oils do not meet API requirements because they have too much of a good thing.
Oil is constantly changing. The classifications keep changing. The API has actually lowered their standards on occassion. Case in point is our current oils. We actually have fewer detergents in them now than we did several years ago! Believe me this isn't a good thing. If you look at a can of oil and see what classification in meets, if it doesn't meet the current level, don't be disappointed. I have always stated that API standards are minimum standards but they also have maximum standards which is silly. Race oils do not meet API requirements because they have too much of a good thing.
09-13-2006, 10:32 AM
#271
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
.... If you look at a can of oil ...
(how old are you RG?)
09-13-2006, 11:00 AM
#273
Well, I just did my first fill with Royal Purple 5w-30 and I must say I am disapointed.
There was no noticible increase in power or fuel efficiency and the "cool" purple color did not bling out my engine bay the way I expected!
Then again, it is just oil and, in this case, what is doesn't do is more important than what it does do.
There was no noticible increase in power or fuel efficiency and the "cool" purple color did not bling out my engine bay the way I expected!
Then again, it is just oil and, in this case, what is doesn't do is more important than what it does do.
09-13-2006, 11:24 AM
#274
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Can, bottle, whatever. You know what I mean.
Don't expect any oil to give you a noticable amount of power gain. It takes about 10% more just to feel it with any accuracy and even the best oils will give you only a 2-3% increase over the worst ones.
Don't expect any oil to give you a noticable amount of power gain. It takes about 10% more just to feel it with any accuracy and even the best oils will give you only a 2-3% increase over the worst ones.
09-13-2006, 11:32 AM
#275
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
I've known people to run Mobil 1 in rotaries before with no issues. Even if it potentially leaves more deposits than some other oils (maybe), if the engine is driven sufficiently it shouldn't be an issue. Nevertheless that is one that Mazda found to be an issue for some reason. I suspect that it is more an issue on the engines that people drive too easily and never rev up high. My RX-7 had nothing but conventional in it before I owned it but due to being babied it's whole life, it had massive carbon inside it.
I would also hazard a guess that if Yamamoto-san did specifically single out Mobil 1 as being bad for the RENESIS, I should think that Mazda has conducted a LITTLE more research into this than they're willing to acknowledge officially.
I also suspect that the bearing-loads in a rotary engine are not as high as in a conventional piston engine, and that the shear force that a synthetic would be required to handle is just not there. Heat, moisture, or combustion by-product contamination would be the main enemy of our rotarys' oil, and for that a regular high-quality oil serviced at regular intervals should suffice.
I do think that RG and others have posted enough real-world evidence to support the believe that SOME synthetics work just fine in the rotary engines. I'm just not certain that it's necessary to use a synthetic in a rotary street car.
As I say this though, realize that I write from a position of practically zero rotary experience, and I live in a friggin' HOT desert climate with only 5W-20 oil in my Renesis. Until the OMP-reconfiguring reflash is done on my car, I worry constantly about cruising across the desert, but worry more that a thicker oil might actually flow less easily through the OMP if I were to try it. The "20" or "30" is actually what the oil THICKENs up to when heated. A thicker oil will flow less easily at temperature so would my engine be MORE at risk of damage, pre-recall flash, in this desert, with a 5W-30?
I know the rest of the world receives a 5W-30 oil recommendation but... don't they also receive a different OMP flash too? Different smog standards to adhere to? I don't think it's fair to simply second-guess Mazda on this because, until someone cracks the ECM 100%, Mazda's the one in control of the engine tuning and OMP flow in all markets. Not saying they've got it right, just that they're a little ahead of everyone else in what they know.