olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Ash you know I have always appreciated your input mate. Please dont stop!

As to the wedge shaped side seal--what I am thinking, and I may be wrong, is that the wedge shape does transmit forces in a different way to the side seal springs? The seals/rotor do move so does, if it does, affect the springs?
As to why Mazda changed the design, from what I have read , its because they knew (from 1995) that the side port exhaust would cause trouble with carbon deposits in the SS and they came up with a new design to fix that problem.
You know what will be interesting? A couple guys on this forum are running the lower cr rotors. It will be interesting to see what their old style SS will do with the side port exhaust.

On a different note, but relavant?, i removed the passenger side oil cooler thermostat last night.
I wanted to see at what temperature mine was opening. So I did the old boiling water /candy thermometer test. At 212F it still wasnt functioning!!!!!!!
Did it go bad? I dont know, must have, but I will be shimming that sucker now.
If I have to deal with overcooling I guess this I will just block the cooler from the airflow. That has worked for me before.
I still would like to see what others , if anyone, are seeing for temps of the oil when it leaves the engine? Anyone?
OD

ayrton012

Absolute misunderstanding.
The only thing that sees atmospheric pres is the air intake side of the MOP's nozzles. The oil pipes from the MOP to the nozzles (banjoed to the nozzles) gets the oil by the MOP's week oil pressure which is generated by the MOP itself. The engine oil get in the MOP from the engine, by the engine's oil pressure, but it has almost nothing effect on how much is the metered oil amount by the MOP. The oil from the MOP's nozzles get in the chamber by the engine's vacuum, and by the air from the nozzle's air pipe (atmo pres) which helps to travel (and spray) the oil in to the chambers. Like I said earlier, the nozzles same like little carburators but travel air/oil mix, instead air/gasoline. Think about the TSB of the wrong intake hose replacement parts, when the nozzles air pipe was blanked. What was the effect? More oil consumption, because without air the engine sucks out more oil from the MOP, than that is metered by it.

Otherwise when we talk about better rotor's cooling by higher oil pres, it is mean that the excentric shaft's oil nozzles - inside the rotors - travel/spray more oil amount, that cools better the rotors and it's parts.

ayrton012

Did it not move?
You know that the oil line into the cooler's rows are always open, but under 195F the bypass line is opened too, so the oil will choose the less restrictive bypass passage line. When the thermostat closes the bypass line of the cooler, the oil most have to flow across the rows of the cooler. But the thermostat valve must have to move when you take it to boiling waters, so it is failed.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks for the pics Doc but I am looking for a comparison of the new design to the old. ASH8, thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I would not know about a lot of the changes if it were not for you.

OD, that sucks, time for the RB lines and a real oil thermostat worked into the system somehow. Or you could ditch the factory coolers and go with a big single cooler How about one big oil cooler on the drivers side and move your secondary radiator to the passenger side oil cooler location?

I got a great deal on my 28" Fluidyne oil cooler so you don't have to spend a grip.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I tried the same trick years ago with the same result . Just ended up deciding that it didn't work that way

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

my thermostat didnt move at all when the water was boiling and my passenger side cooler was alway a good bit cooler to the laser thermometer than the drivers side. Call me paranoid, but Im thinking my oil coming from out of the engine is higher than I think it is.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

later on I will work on a pic of the old design

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

WOW..you really took exception to that comment

I was just commenting that you were simplifiying things by giving us Mazda's diluted tech speek that went in the 2009 Highlights manual

I would hope you have some more info that you could/would share..even privately.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

9K I am looking for but can't find a diagram for the 12A motor, but the 13B thats in the RX7. Are we sure it has different side seals? I know it was a 135HP motor.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I have very limited time here. I'm skimming through Eric's comments and Jeff's and agreeing with what I've had time to read. We have taken apart a couple dozen higher mileage units including some with well over 100k not to mention having built them for racing as well. There are all sorts of interesting findings although Mr Engman does not find the process as entertaining and enlightening as I . He was walking by yesterday and I showed him the pictures of the metering nozzles. He commented that there 'could be' some spitting taking place at the metering orifice (Housing) due to an apex seal not sealing properly and did not think the picture showed any evidence of metering failure necessarily. He glanced in passing so no need for panic.

As Eric said, these engines create a bunch of carbon which impairs proper function in more than one way. Apart from apex seal wear we also have apex seal sag due to temperature and material. We have seen premature main bearing wear and failure but this is not the reason Renesis engines usually end up needing replacement on the street driven cars.

Hopefully next week I will have time to comment further and pick the old man's brain as well.

Quickly, I am a fan of the Sohn adapter from what little I know about it. I wish Mazda was using a separate source for metering with a capacity that would match the longest recommended oil change interval. A level light would be perfect as well.

P

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

about time slacker
Hopefully I will be calling you this week Paul.
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks Paul, I was getting a little worried

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Renesis side seals have a keystone cutout

This will help allot

http://www.rebuildingrotaryengines.c...renesis-rotors

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

^ Thanks bro, that's great!

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Yea man I actually referenced pineapples videos, the rebuild dvd and the engine rebuild book.

I needed all of them.

There are some quirky things that aren't covered in the book and the rebuild dvd is for older 13b's. So I really needed all info from all sides to complete it.

I'd like to get my hands on another 6port that needs rebuilding though... I got the itch.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

ok but we are talking about RX7 vs RX8. I already noted the keystone side seal on the RX8 motor. What I am saying is that are we certain that the RX7 13B doesn't have the same seal? I believe it does.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It does not.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

If you watch the video he states "they have changed the design completely"

when I ordered my cut to fit seals Mazdatrix had tons of regular seals but only 12 of the of the renesis seals. I botched one up and had to get a precut seal, which had a massive gap compared to what we were cutting down to size with.

But according to the guy who posted earlier His team didn't notice a reliability change in race engines with different side seal gap.

Anyways so yes there is a difference.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I sure wish someone would come out with a Renesis rebuild DVD and a Tuning DVD. I would pay for that in a heart beat.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks, I thought there were some differences, I'm just trying to understand why the change and what changed exactly.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I dont think anyone actually knows that but the Mazda R&D department.

Most of us will just speculate, it obviously serves a point becuase they went to allot of trouble designing that.

Not only is the seal cut that way but the rotor itself is, you cant put this things in upside down they go in one way only. It might be a structural thing due to the fact that they are now closer to the edge.

Again just speculation.

Or maybe the R&D team wanted even more triangular shapes on the car then there already are!!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It is actually pretty straight-forward mechanics as to why they are wedge-shaped now.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Im not gonna quote that so you can fix it. lol.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I build things and fix them I don't design.

Can you throw any layman's term explanation my way?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

the new shape as I have stated before was to decrease the amount of carbon buildup on the side seals etc due to the side port configuation. That is what I have read per Mazda papers.
OD