Jax_RX8

I suspect so as well

Jax_RX8

Not seen anything at BITOG on this - not too much car specific details there.

I intend to continue premixing as well.

Jax_RX8

1. I have measured my OMP injection rate very closely since I have a separate tank (Sohn Adapter) - and I am using 3.2oz per 12 gallons of gas, which is a 1:480 mix ratio. Idemitsu is designed to lubricated very well at a 1:300 ratio, so by adding 2 oz more per tank, that gets me there. I also use 2oz of the FP3000, mostly for the cleaning, but the additional lubricity doesn't hurt either.

2. Rotaries generate a lot of carbon from the rich fuel mixture - thus the need for excellent cleaning. FP60/FP3000 are both excellent products, but they are both cleaners first and lubricants second. FP3000 has good lubricity, but no where near the lubricity of a specifically designed 2-cycle oil/premix (which is designed for lubrication first and cleaning second) - so FP cannot be a 2 cycle replacement in my oil feed tank for primary lubrication.

3. FP (both) and Idemitsu premix mix very well, I have seen no issues. If you want some data on Idemitsu's Premix, read the link below from their patent. This patent application is for all their 2-cycle formulas and has several blends listed with various properties - Item 1 is the Rotary Premix as best as I can tell (based on published specs)

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5308524-fulltext.html

Key things in design, beyond the obvious lubrication needs, are begin very miscible (mixing well with gas) and very good deposit control.


If you want to get additional lubrication without warranty issues, premix (without the Sohn adapter). Use Idemitsu or Amsoil Saber Pro - my 2 cents.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

not to quibble, but Idemitsu recommends 1/2 oz per gal; 1:256

http://www.apolloamerica.com/images/specsheetpremix.pdf

Jax_RX8

Team - you're right.

I got the 1:300 from another source I read that had performed some testing of IRP stating it protected well at 1:400, but was very, very good up to 1:300 - hence the 1:256 recommendation, I suspect to be a little on the safe side, and easier to calculate.

Even so, I might do an extra ounce of IRP just to be sure

LionZoo

Thinking over the cat issues, I don't think normal engine oil is too good for the cat either. Would it be any worse for premix?

Jax_RX8

Very good point - normal motor oil contains Zinc and Phosphorous for Barrier Protection, which are both detrimental to cats, just like some 2-cycles do.

SL spec'd oil can range from 200-2000 Parts Per Million (PPM) of each depending on the specific formula and other components. Most of this is in the oil in a form called Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates (ZDDP)

The latest SM spec, greatly reduces the amounts of Zinc and Phosphorous to about 750 PPM limit each to meet the spec and better protect cats. Blenders have added other components to counteract the barrier protection loss with such ingredients as Boron and some/more Moly.

Net though for those with a normal OMP, is that SM oils will be easier on the cat.

Back to the original point - normal 4-cycle oil can be just as hard on cats as 2-cycle oils, depending on the type of 4-cycle oil used (SL versus SM) and the ingredients used for barrier protection in the 2-cycle oil of choice.

LionZoo

Which makes any thinking about effects on the cat even harder to figure out! However, life would be no fun if it wasn't complicated.

Targatheory

Was just about to start premixing my high mileage 8 until I skimmed through this whole thread. Now what would be bad about getting some Valvoline 2 Stroke oil, and putting 4oz in a full tank of 91 octane gas? Is this considered "dirty motor oil" or do I really have to order special product online. All I'm looking for is engine longevity and maybe better mileage. Everything is stock too, haven't messed with anything, and currently using Castrol GTX 5W20

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Just don't add any bean oil derivatives

Jax_RX8

Sounds like a good plan.

Best option for "Premixing" IMHO, is to get a Full Synthetic, No Ash, 2-cycle oil that is NOT made with any Castor (Bean ) ingredients. Some Synthetic Blends are very good as well though.

There are many to choose from all the major blenders/manufacturers. You don't have to mail order, but some of the better options are mail order only - your choice though.

Here are a few favorites:

Idemitsu Rotary Premix
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_214.htm

Amsoil Saber Professional
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx

Royal Purple (Normal and Racing)
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/tcwiiia.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/tcwiiirac.html

Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...nth2cycle.html

Valvoline Marine 2-cycle
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=61


I personally think it is important to mix in some cleaners with it as well to help in keeping things clean - some do this every tank like I do, some just do it every once in a while, depending on the product of choice.

map

I've been using Lucas UCL with good results so far, although I will be trying FP3000 as soon as I can get some. Lucas UCL is meant to go in the gas tank, so it should play nice with the fuel pump, and is readily available at auto parts stores. It's about $10 for 32oz so not much initial investment if you're just curious and want to try it.

Maybe my reasoning is silly, but with some of the gunking issues people have had the fact that UCL is made to be used as a gas additive gives me piece of mind.

WRXtoRX8

+1 on that

I usually mix a 1.5 oz packet of amsoil saber pro with Lucas UCL into a 5.25 oz lucas container to put in for the fuelup. I usually try and do it every time but have done it every other time with good results still I think

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

There is some suspiscion that mixing UCL with premix may cause the clogging of the fuel pump map mentioned ......

danielk015

iTrader: (1)

For the last 7K miles, i have been using the fully synthetic RedLine 2stroke racing oil and everything seems to be fine. Like someone mentioned, there was immediately less soot on the tailpipes when i started using this.

Targatheory

Hey Jax, I did a search on Valvoline and a member here said something about Marine oil isn't good for the cat. Have anything to say about this since you recomended that marine outboard oil. Or would I be better off getting two stroke (or two cycle) motorbike oil or motorbike injector oil? Basically all I have available is Valvoline...

swoope

iTrader: (5)

synthetic 2 stroke oil... that is what you need..

beers

Cromax

I actually found that using a mineral 2 stroke was better, as the synthetic I was using (the one from Shell) was causing my fuel pump to make wierd noises.

Targatheory

How about Castrol 2Stroke? Its good for lawnmowers...

Jax_RX8

Marine oil basically just meets a different spec, TCW3, nothing unique that is any more harmful than any other 2-cycle for cats.

I personally like the JASO FC/FD and ISO EGC/EGD spec'd oils better as they are harder specs to meet as they are designed more for air cooled (hotter running) engines like motorcycles, mowers, trimmers, etc.

TCW3 oils, while good, are designed for water cooled (cooler running) boat motors and will not stand up as well to extreme heat/protection scenarios.

Also, "Injector" 2-cycle oil is not required or desired for premixing. This oil is generally thinner so it can be direct injected into the intake runners or combustion chamber and is not designed to be "pre-mixed" in with fuel.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

i just started premixing Idemitsu- 8oz per fullup. I started after noticing my oil level on my dipstick isn't moving, I am suspect to if the OMP is even injecting oil at this point- or it going like 800:1 or something ridiculously lean so I don't notice any changes on the dipstick.

I'm about to get the Sohn OMP adaptor and a custom polished aluminum tank to hold the Idemitsu and see if the level drops in that.

savedsol

If it doesn't inject oil now the story wouldn't change with the Sohn. You would have a bigger issue. Talk to MazdaManiac he was having similar issues.

Jax_RX8

I think part of MM's issue is that his engine is turbo'd and the pressure may be slowing or hindering the OMP oil injection.

It is somewhat unknown at this point if the OMP actually pumps or acts as a limiter for the oil drawn being drawn in via engine vacuum. If the oil is actually vacuum drawn with the OMP acting as a limiter, all FI engines would see reduced to no OMP feeding due to the positive pressure and would need to premix even more to cover the total seal lubrication need.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, the pump definitely pumps. That is for sure. It is not just a regulator for existing oil pressure.
However, my concern is that it is calibrated to push oil at a certain pressure relative to normal ambient pressure. What happens to the amount of oil when this isn't the case?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

wonder how it works on an FD RX7 turbo - same as Renesis ?