New Yorker

No prob, actually I don't think I ever asked the question!

KimiFelipe

Actually, you did - I was responding directly to your post:

[QUOTE=You guys make it amazingly difficult to get an answer to a simple question: should I premix… or not? Especially when we have "dueling" petrochemical engineers. Even if I could understand it—which I can't—who the hell am I supposed to believe??[/QUOTE]

So that's why I said just ignore us.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

but the cool thing is you ended up agreeing? right?

if so could you two go debate the syn oil vs dino, in another thread?

beers

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I owned one of the first rotaries, a 1972 RX-3 with a 12A engine, and subsequently got a new engine from Mazda (free!).....From the first time I saw a rotary, I couldn't see how it would get enough lubrication without using two-stroke type mixed oil.

I didn't use any premix in that car, but I've used it faithfully with my '8. I drive a lot of highway miles, and I want the car to last a seriously long time - this is my best-guess as to what I can do to help.

I find it telling that Mazda has recalled all the cars to "up" the amount of oil injected, and engines are being replaced en-masse due to poor sealing inside.
I'm sure mine is sealing just fine after 40k miles.

The only possible downside I see is maybe more carbon could accumulate on the rotor faces, I try to minimize this in the traditional (redline-a-day!) way, and use Lucas UCL as part of my mix as a further effort.

I don't say "everyone should pre-mix", but I will tell you in great detail what I do, and my reasons - you are all grown up now and can hold whatever opinions you like about the issue.

S

swoope

iTrader: (5)

just started using my second qt of it... no problems have not noticed any changes..

beers

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i would do 6 oz in you first tank and see how it goes... with the new motor i am only using ~3 just as a safety measure..

when you use up the qt let me know and i will give you a link for the rp stuff...

beers

hoosier

I too had a 72 RX-3. My first new car. Never thought about adding oil at that time and I ran it hard to about 96K when I think I might have had a warpage problem since I started using a lot of water. Other than that, I never had any problems except the usual battery or tires.

Many moons later, I faithfully premix and believe there is a benefit. I couldn't prove it, but like upper cylinder lubrication in piston engines, it just can't hurt. At the mix ratio we are using I think you are more apt to have more carbon problems with gas, instead of the oil.

mysql101

http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Semi-Syn...8&s=automotive

Just finished up my box of premix, going to get some lucas oil next.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

keep us posted. btw i am pm you a link..

beers

mysql101

they make full synthetic version too. I doubt it you'll be able to tell the difference between the two.

you can also get a gallon of rp syn for $25.

Celronx

iTrader: (1)

I've got 68k on the odo, and I've been using Lucas UCL as premix for about 45k miles. I use about 4.5 oz with every fill up(about 10-12 gallons). I love the stuff. I bought 3 of the little 5oz bottles and just keep refilling them with the big bottles. I even got a extra thick freezer bag, put the bottles in it, and keep the bottle in the bag in the door pocket, so it's right there when I fill up.

For what is worth

Cel

Endgame

O.K. I am slow at work and just spent the last hour reading this thread. New to the rotary and definitely new to premixing; but I am interested. My question is if I start premixing, then decide I want to stop, will that hurt anything? After doing all of this reading, I do not think so as premixing is a preventative measure. Will someone confirm??

RX8Maine

If you were to decide to stop, nothing should be hurt. The MOP will still be doing everything it does now.

Endgame

Cool. THX!!

Jax_RX8

I continue to be surprised that so many seem to emphasize additional lubrication for these engines, while ignoring the much more needed cleaning (besides occasional redlining for carbon blowout).

Deposit/carbon buildup is what is causing prematurely wear/death for some of our engines by clogging the exhaust ports and gumming up and sticking the rotary seals (killing compression). This is possible in every engine (e.g. piston rings), but it is much more of an issue in a rotary because of the less complete combustion and oil addition to the burn mixture.

Clean lubrication is what is needed - that is why I did the Sohn adapter with Idemitsu Premix for a cleaner burning lubricant. For EXCEPTIONAL cleaning on top of that (with some lubrication abilities), I use Lube Control's FP60 in the gas. I think this is helping my rotary get more than enough lubrication without adding more oil (which BTW causes MORE carbon generation, exacerbating the problem).

I am not only using FP60 in my 8, but in two other cars (a diesel and a gas V8) and it has made all three run and idle much sooooooo much smoother and actually has made the engines quieter running as well. Read BITOG for many industry expert glowing opinions.

I think we need a few more "cleaning" threads and it's impact for long rotary engine life rather than all these discussions on more lubrication. Just my 2 cents - flame away.

expo1

I agree, myself and others have noticed how much better our cars run in town after a weekend at the track. But that goes away in a week or two.
Long Live the Italian Tune Up

N10S

The cleaning benefits was one of the big motivators in prompting me to want to use the Idemitsu synthetic pre-mix. This is based on the outline that Idemitsu provides on the various benefits which are listed on the Mazdatix website. I think your commitment to making the wholesale changeover to modify the OMP to use nothing but the Idemitsu is an excellent solution, but there are going to be a majority of folks who will not want to alter the factory OMP set-up.

Based on my discussion with the folks at Madzatrix and pouring through lots of past threads/posts, it appears that using the synthetic pre-mix in small amounts per tank-fill as a supplement to the OMP can still be beneficial for both added lubrication, and for keeping things cleaner. I don't think this is counter to what you are saying, and I do agree that keeping the engine clean, and the seals well lubricated seem to both be critical to the rotary engines lifespan and overall performance longterm. I guess the point is that I think the benefits can be recognized at some level with or without the full-on OMP modification.

Jax_RX8

Don't get me wrong on Idemitsu Premix, it is a great product. But it is a lubricant first and foremost with a few cleaners in the additive package like most other oils (with maybe a little more). It is not really designed for or focused on cleaning, it is focused on lubrication.

I am suggesting that our emphasis should be more on specifically designed cleaning products (FP60, BG44k, Techron. etc) and their benefits as I feel the cleaning need for this engine is much, much more important than any additional lubrication needs.

CURED RX8

I think your both right!

Lubrication is what's definitely important for the engine! Additional lubrication and cleaning is a good thing, but a personal preference as to what to use, how much, how often, and so on.

I personally like the Sohn Adapter idea with Idemitsu. As soon as i can locate a dual container to mount where the windshield resevior is now (so I can also keep the wipers), I'm probably going to get the Sohn. It should be much better than Reg. oil (that's deteriorating daily between changes) running through the OMP.

I also plan to continue premix in the gas tank, because of what has been reported by those who have taken the rotary engine apart and seen the parts that don't get lubricated because of how/where the OMP pumps the oil in. Plus the pump could fail. Extra lube, extra parts being lubed, extra protection...three good reasons anyone should premix.

RX8Maine

I used the Lucas UCL for its cleaning properties. I think there may be some people using only the UCL, which is probably (but no-one knows) based on a synthetic oil in the first place. I am using the Lucas UCL at their recommended 3oz/10gal ratio and then adding another 1-2oz/10gal of a traditional synthetic 2-stroke oil which should put things at a total ratio of 1:300-1:400.

Bindon

WOW, I was late on this one, hahaha

We sell premix here at Pettit, in 4 oz bottles, and gallon jugs.

The main advantage is that our protek is forumulated specifically for rotary engines, from years of racing experience.

Check it out here...

http://pettitracing.com/rx8/index_faq_protek.htm

Jax_RX8

Lucas UCL is a pretty good product - half cleaner, half lubricant. Better cleaner than 2-cycle oils, but not as good as a dedicated cleaner. Compared to FP60, Lucas is probably a better lubricant while FP60 is a much better cleaner.

If you intend to continue using 2-cycle oil, I would go with a more potent cleaner as the other half of your "mix". Recommend FP60, 44K, or a PEA-based cleaner (e.g. Redline SI-1, Techron, Gumout Regane) with every tank. These are the ones that work - most of the the others are "Snake Oil" and are just kerosene with some very weak solvents.

RX8Maine

Thanks . . . Maybe someone who has been using UCL alone can weight in on this. I am very open to suggestion and am not yet committed to one way of doing this.

SmokeyTheBalrog

I was just wandering around the web and came across the motorcycle website that mentions:

That modern un-leaded pump gas, "Reacts poorly to the presence of oil, as in a two-stroke pre- mix situation."

http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbik....jsp?id=331518


As I am considering starting to pre-mix is this something I should be concerned about?

tmak26b

Huh? You do know carbon comes from oil right? Look in a two stroke motor, they will tell you "decarbonizing" is something you should do every 1000 miles due to the oil burning up and turning into carbon. Look in your HC level on your emission report

200K rotary miles without premix. Why are you adding oil onto a car that already has an oil pump? It makes no sense, it's the placibo effect again. It's all in the head.