Brettus

iTrader: (2)

300ml per 55L tank - whatever that is in oz. That is with factory MOP on.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

So I started premixing a couple of weeks ago, and this week I took an 888-mile (I kid you not) road trip, so it was a perfect opportunity to test out the effects of the premix.

Ratio
I am mixing approximately 7oz of UCL per 14g fillup, so about a 1:256 ratio.

Mileage

I've been keeping track of every fillup since I got this car (11 months / 13300 miles), so I think I have a pretty damn good handle on what my mileage is normally. 13-14 city (got a heavy foot). 19.96 was my all-time best highway mileage. Normally highway mileage tends to hover around 19. By "highway mileage" I mean - cruise control set at 78 the whole way. Also, I use Exxon/Mobil almost exclusively, so differences in gas shouldn't factor into the numbers.

Since I started premixing, the worst tank I got was 14.6 (all city). The next worst was a 19.4 with a mix of about 30% city - 70% highway on a tank. Two more tanks were at 21.2 and 21.7 which is an 8.7% increase directly attributable to premix. By the way, this was on I-81 going through NY and PA, so pretty hilly country...

Feel

The engine seems to run alot smoother (and quieter!!). It idles smoother and even masks the idle issues I am having due to a bad passenger side motor mount. It seems to rev easier and without the slightly raspy tone that bothered me before. Can't comment on power, but I would not be surprised to find a measureable increase in that department as well.

Full disclosure
At the half-way mark of the road trip I mentioned earlier, I noticed a strange sound coming from the engine bay. It's a very pronounced "click" that seems to happen once per engine revolution. I can hear it at idle, but once I rev up, either the engine noise drowns it out or it disappears altogether. My current theory is that since the engine overall idles quieter, a noise that wasn't very pronounced before has become more noticeable. Working on tracking it down...

Conclusions

Personally, I am sold. Anything that gives you almost a 10% increase in gas mileage has got to pay off in decreased wear and tear as well. Premix FTW!! I will have to play around with the ratio and see what effect it has on mileage. Will also play with the numbers to see what the effect on $/mile is...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

curious as to why you went with UCL at high concentration rather than premix oil ?

Delmeister

Just finished reading through this whole thread. Wow!

CnnmnSchnpps: Thanks for that comprehensive summary of your experience with pre-mixing. It's an important topic that needs the kind of quantitative evidence that you are supplying. May I suggest a couple of things to help confirm your findings? The first is to stop pre=mixing for a while to see if things revert to their original state and then plot the data to see if the 'spike' is really noticeable. The second is to try and get a decibel meter to record the noise change if you revert back, since in your case the levels must have changed significantly if you think the click could have possibly been masked. I think I read somewhere back that someone else experienced a click. Even if you decide not to go back, a plot of your data would be an interesting part of your analysis.

Olddragger - Since you claim that vacuum is improved with pre-mixing, you obviously must have measured it. So why don't you publish the numbers?

Brettus: It was refreshing to see your initial questioning on the value of pre-mixing in the face of overwhelming but largely unsubstantiated support for it. Looking forward to further reports on your findings.

StealthTL: Good to hear that pre-mixing doesn't appear to affect starting and operating in cold weather.

Zephyrzone

Is there any evidence yet that mixing the FP60 with premix can cause a fuel filter failure? OD and others think mixing UCL and 2-stroke has been detrimental. Why do we think the chemical makeup of FP60 won't have the same effect as UCL when mixed?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have been using UCL for ages and premix at the track . The only real questioning I've done is in regards to the performance gains some have been claiming . It now seems clear that at high concentrations there is something to gain but not so much that you should be able to actually notice it.

Jax_RX8

It is very hard to "disprove" something.

That said, FP Plus and FP60 are VERY different formulations than Lucas UCL.

Lube Control (LC) products (FP Plus/FP60) are more of a "lubricious solvent" product/formula while Lucas UCL is more of an traditional oil/lubricant much like other 2-cycles - thus any potential additive "clash" is much less likely with Lube Control Products as they use totally different formulas.

Also, LC's LC20 product uses a very similar chemistry, tweaked to be an oil additive - so it is going to be designed to work with pretty much any oil additive pack - adding to the probability that FP Plus/60 will work fine with all 2-cycle oils.

Personally, I think the fuel filter clogging issues are from poor gas anyways (flame away!)- caused almost totally by oxidized and dirty gas, with premix just exacerbating the problem, but not the actual cause. My 2 cents.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I just finished mixing the Mobil1 Racing Full Synthetic 2-Stroke oil.

Hmm, didnt felt any different

go back to Idemitsu premix. 8 oz every tank.

Zephyrzone

Thanks for the clarity Jax.

Yeah. I know you can't prove a negative, that's why I worded the question the way I did.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Brettus - I went with UCL because that was the only thing I could find over the counter in time to run my test. I will order some of the other "approved" oils (though it's hard to find one everyone agrees one)

Delmeister - I will stop premixing in the next month to take the car to the dealer for service (for the motor mounts). Since I'm at 59k miles I'm going to pay for them to do a compression test and I figure I would get worse numbers without premix... I definitely agree that this thread needs a little bit more hard evidence. I want to play around with some different oils and record my findings - perhaps set up a double-blind test for the skeptics. As far as decibel meters go - I would love to do that, just don't own one. Can a decently accurate one be gotten for cheap?

gnj152

Someone knows about Marvel mystery oil for premix!!!!

danielk015

iTrader: (1)

I just ran out of my last bottle of Red line full synthetic 2 stroke oil as my premix... i have used 4-5oz per tank for the last year and it has been great IMO... The place I buy from dont sell the red line anymore, so i am using Bel Ray Si 7 Full Synthetic now, and i hear that is a great oil too... I think i read that Pettit started their formula with the Bel Ray...

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Actually I tried a tank of half and half MMO / UCL, and a tank of pure MMO, but it seemed less effective than pure UCL. Seeing how thin it is (almost like water) I don't see how it can lubricate anything...

gundarx

^ Hey fellow Jersey City-premixer =) I'm on my first tank of UCL (just 3oz) but haven't felt any difference except for some unusually clean exhaust tips.. there's still some carbon that comes out (could be b/c I'm still on mineral-based engine oil) but relatively minimal.. I've checked 3 pep boys places and an RS Strauss but no good synthetic 2-stroke oil found.. I'll be continuing UCL til then. But as someone suggested here, I don't think you should use UCL with another premix at the same time. When I get a good "real" premix oil, I'll put just UCL every now and then to clean the injectors and maybe the cat(?).

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

vacumn without premix with a new gauge and taken from the lower intake manifold site ,
at normal idle---15.8
at 2k--17.6
with premix of 1/2 per gallon
idle---16.2
at 2k--17.8--to 18
There
read racing beats findings also
OD

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i know that idle vacumn is suppose to be about the same as at 2K on a recip engine.
maybe i have a small vacuum leak I dont know---i idle well.
also read Pettit racing findings
OD

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

but are you often idle ? heh

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

hehe
absolutely not!
Hey Kenny---yea ,I know i am low, but Charlie and i figure something else is going on at idle rather than a compression issue.
OD

Ploppity Drown

OD - You mention Racing Beat's and Pettit Racing's findings on vacuum/premix. Can you post a link to these findings? I couldn't find them in the usual places.

Delmeister

There now, was that so hard? Numbers beat talk too!

shaunv74

I posted racing beat's findings in this thread a few pages back. Read through and you'll find it. Pettit is...www.pettitracing.com. Pretty straightforward really.

DOMINION

Hey guys I'm new to all this pre mix. But I just want to add what I have experinced. I went to SSX a 600mile round trip and ran with a premix bottle from RB. After I got back to the Vegas heat, my car no longer pings like before. I don't think it was the gas being better out there then where I'm at. After all I filled up before the trip and when I got home. Up to now its nolonger doing it. I'm sold.

Jax_RX8

MMO is a controversial gasoline additive lubricant - some swear by it, others hate it.

Personally, I think it is OK, but way down on my list of preferred premixes because it's lubricity is not actually that good and it is very old chemistry. See link on lubricity test results for some common adds (happens to be a diesel ad test).

BYW, the best lubricity add was bio-diesel at 2% ratio, and this is one of the key new ingredients for FP Plus and the big reason for the UCL gain it has over FP60 - for those with inquiring minds.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

This study is a little misleading - the fuel they used was raw ULSD, with no additives, which is impossible to obtain at retail. I understand they used it to provide an unbiased baseline, but it is still a bit theoretical.

The refiners use potent additives to restore the fuel's lubricity, and you can't buy anything that would test as 'bad' as that baseline.

One of the additives used can bring the lubricity of raw fuel up to meet the spec at a recommended ratio of around 4000:1 !

Unfortunately it is unavailable to the public........

S

Jax_RX8

^^ Don't disagree with the base fuel comments other than it was the same base fuel for each additive tested to see how it helped (or did not) lubricity via the HFRR test. I think the "raw" ULSD diesel used for this test was chosen on purpose to specifically see just how much lubricity the tested additives really provide without the lubricity being disguised by other additives in normal pump diesel.

It appears the test was conducted properly by an independent company.

What I was trying to point out is that while MMO (and Lucas UCL for that matter) are oil/cleaner fuel additives, they do not appear to be able to add any more lubricity than the base diesel already provides.

However, I am sure MMO and Lucas will add lubricity to gas as it has basically none to start with while diesel (even raw diesel) has some, but some of these additives did not have enough lubricity to improve the overall lubricity of the base diesel.