KimiFelipe

I hate to disagree with you, and I dont know what the feedstock is for these oils, but you are wrong on a couple things so you may be wrong on others, so I'll ask.

First, neither polyisobutylene nor isobutylene are long chain olefins. isobutylene contains 4 carbons and is an olefin. When an olefin is polymerized the product is referred to as a poly(olefin), meaning that it's an olefin which has been polymerized, and the double bonds are now gone, so the product is actually a parafin, it's saturated.

Secondly, I didn't think that PIB is such a good material for an oil - I'm going to have to look it up tomorrow but I thought this was a gummy substance not oily. Depends on molecular weight sure but isobutylene is not the nicest thing to polymerize to low molecular weight, which would give you the right viscosity for a motor oil.

Usually if you want something greasy you want something with a lot less branching in the backbone - PIB is very highly branched! Now, oil technology is VERY complex, and maybe PIB is a small component. If I have time I'll check Lucas' patents and see if I can add anything to the conversation. NO promises, tho.

I dont know what "too" biodegradable means, but there is no reason that biodegradability and combustability have anything at all to do with one another. In a very very broad sense, the more oxygen in a compound the less combustible it is, and for bugs to eat something generally it is nice if you have functional groups in them, which tend to contain oxygen. But from there, there is no connection whatever between biodegradability and combustability.

Example: Ethanol is biodegradable (drink beer??) and very combustible.

N10S

I have been pouring through a lot of info on different forums and have called a few vendors as well on the pre-mixing issue, and there are various positions on the matter some very contradictory to others. At the end of the day though folks working at a mazda dealership will be unlikely to support the idea of you premixing because it doesn't follow their "book" position.

Alternatively many folks with years of rotary engine tuning experience (not at a dealership) seem to support the idea as a supplemental way to provide more uniform lubrication than the OMP may be able to provide at all times. I personally ordered some Idemitsu synthetic pre-mix oil from the guys at Mazdatrix, and am going to start using it soon in small mix quantities with each tank of gas. The page with the Idemitsu info can be found here:

http://www.mazdatrix.com/q-supply.htm

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

You are right, when we make it, it's an olefin, but as used, it would be reffered to as simply a polymer.

I wouldn't waste my time looking up the qualities of PIB, if you think it wouldn't make a good oil component - just try and find a modern ISO-EGD spec synthetic two-stroke that DOESN'T contain it. They would be rare.
"our company" uses 45% PIB, with a little PIB-succinimide as a dispersant.

I never said that TCW-3 is any more "deposit forming or smoking" just because it is bio-degradable, it is just more "jello and slime forming", due to it's vastly different priorities. In order to cut down on the metallic additives, they use hydrazine compounds as detergents, these contain a lot of nitrogen and slime-bugs just love nitrogen.

S

RX8Maine

If that is the ony way you can interpret the results, then I suggest you NOT try it.

Recall done with no probs . . . 8600 miles on the car.

Read the threads. There are a lot of reasons why this would help, even on a healthy engine. Better lubrication helps any engie, and this engine's two biggest moving parts are only lubricated well by finding ways to consistently get adequate lubrication into the combustion chamber.

RX8Maine

That's interesting. I briefly considered using only the Lucas UCL but then decided to do both. The synthetic JASO-FC oil I bought was much darker and thicker than the lucas UCL. There is an auto parts store right near me that also carries MMO, so I may give that a try.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Idemitsu for almost 10K miles no problems ! Pass Recall and everything. Engine is happy !

I dont know what others are thinking, but I think Premix are cool and will continue to do so.

I use Royal Purple Full Synthetic Engine Oil too ! Does that help also ? :P (I dont want to start another Synth vs Dino war!)

KimiFelipe

So you work for Infineum International Ltd. then? (US 6455477) Here it calls for a butene or isobutene feedstock, so the branching must not be very important. The molecular weights in these patents are very small, less than 1000, average number of monomers 13-22? Its been a while since I did polyolefins, but this is pretty interesting. Thanks for mentioning the succinimide dispersant.

Rhythmic

Never too late to start pre-mixing? I've got 34k mi. now, but am wanting to give it a try.

>side note: I was the first at my dealer to get the recall. I've recently lost some trust in the mechanics at this dealer. Would it be overkill to have my ECU software version verified? Is there a possiblity that they didn't flash the correct version? (sorry for the hijack)

expo1

I started around 70,000 I now have over 81,000 miles.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have read the threads & I have tried it . I also did some actual testing with scanalyser which showed no performance gain whatsoever. As far as whether it increases the life of the engine - no one has really proved that but it certainly is more likely to do more good than harm.
My comment was just suggesting that premix can improve the performance if you have other issues . If your engine is fine - it will not .

dynamho

How does one use a premix -- just pour the measured amount into the gas tank before filling up so it gets mixed by the filling action?

RX8Maine

"If your engine is fine - it will not."

That's a pretty empirical statement.

Why would Mazda use it in racing applications?

I haven't driven anyone else's 8, but I don't have any reason to believe mine was troubled before doing this. Even the "rough idle" is probably a non-issue. The car idles more smoothly than any other car I have owned, but it seems like everyone else claims they can't tell theirs is running without looking at the tach.

What we need is for someone with a brand new 8 to do this as soon as they complete their break-in, possibly even with pre- and post- dyno runs. I'd be willing to contribute toward the cost. I think a lot of people are curious about this.

expo1

I carry around some Idemitsu Premix in bottles and add it after it's full. Some add it before. In New Jersey you can't pump your own gas so after works out for me.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that's what I do, just pour my little bottle in, but I usually wait until I have two gallons in - then dump it in. The reason I do it that way, is that twice I put the oil in and there was a pump problem (once it was out of gas, once the computer that ran the pumps was broken) so I had a really rich mixture in there as I drove to another gas station.

So now I make sure the gas is actually going IN before I add, probably just another little bit of paranoia....

S

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

That Happened to me once. The pump I was on was broken, the screen shows everything fine but nothing happens when I click .... I went in try to pay cash but the dude said that pump is broken (Great, is it that hard to put a fuxking Out of Order sign?) I dump the premix in already .... I tried to push the car in Neutral but I dont think I can move a 3000 lbs car even its on wheels so I drove it to the second pump and it works.

Too much premix wouldnt hurt the engine, Its just gonna waste your money. (Im not asking you to dump JUST premix into the tank !)

dynamho

Thanks for that little advice about making sure that gas is coming in before using premix -- much appreciated. This is what forums are for.

KimiFelipe

I'm almost finished breaking mine in - I have just under 1400 mi and am revving as high as 7500, say once per 50 mi on average.

If there is enough interest from the board to fund the testing, I'd be willing to submit my car as a test mule, as long as this is just dino runs. Know a shop in the area? Maybe KTR performance in Ayer?

danielk015

iTrader: (1)

i started pre mixing a few months ago and bought the castrol non synthetic 2 stroke oil as that was the only thing i could find at the time. I thought it worked good for me, smoother idle and seems like better throttle response.. got through a bottle of that and located a motorcycle parts store near me and bought 2 bottles of red line synthetic 2 stroke oil.. works evern better and smoother... I can definitely recommend the red line... there, it sold normally for 6.50, but got it for 5 bucks on sale

RX8Maine

But a good idea. I hadn't thought of that, but I have stopped at non-functional gas stations a couple times.

Butch Brown

I got rid of my KX250 4 years ago, I ain't premixin no mo!

encorez

So can good premix do any harm? any harm ????????

Thanks.

New Yorker

Hey, I appreciate the wealth of information—like this—available on forums like this one. That's one of the good things about the internet.

But… make believe, for a second, that I'm just an average Joe who doesn't happen to be a petrochemical engineer. You guys make it amazingly difficult to get an answer to a simple question: should I premix… or not? Especially when we have "dueling" petrochemical engineers. Even if I could understand it—which I can't—who the hell am I supposed to believe??

swoope

iTrader: (5)

this is very correct,, as i used premix to mask my motor problems for 25k miles..

beers

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I would be curious to see what a dyno would show also but if I was a betting man I'd certainly take the "no difference" side.
I have done mods to my car that the dyno shows as a 10hp + improvement but really struggle to feel a difference on the road .

KimiFelipe

Neither one of us were addressing the question you are asking, so just ignore us.