marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

Nicez! Err, you forgot to mention that we love to drink the Kool-Aid

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

Well, I figure you must be talking about a Propeller Cap since you are an Air Force Zummy. Right?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

you'll have to dig much deeper than that to get at me. you are correct though, but fwiw you couldnt offend me in that entire spectrum as i'm not patriotic in any way, shape, or form. its just a job.

and for the record, the Kool Aid is simply social engineering, and damn near everyone active on this forum drinks one flavor or another. some of it is good and some is bad, and some is why there are ppl like you, or me.

(and i just got the best laugh i've had in a while when someone pointed out to me the 1/4 time in your sig. now thats funny, i owe you for that one)

dillsrotary

I find MM's posts, though aggressive, with good nature towards the kits and subject. Paul on the other hand just seems to idealize MM and gears his posts in what he seems he would like. Its pretty annoying lol.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

thats an interesting thought i guess. i've only had direct interaction with MM a handfull of times and since i dont know him personally, could give 2 ***** what he thinks about my personality. hell, he may even know that i think he's a *****(i dont know him personally and couldnt say what others do about the guy he is in person/real life) what i respect of MM is the same as any of the others i respect on the forum, knowledge.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Damn Paul---pretty strong there.
And i am not every talking about the car.
Its the fact that you are in our country's military, you view it as "just a job" and you have no patriotic feelings what so ever.
Glad you said that--now we know more about the person posting.

Hey Juan--- I like cherry---- Kool--Aid--!
Kool aid, Kool aid tastes Great
kool aid , kool aid --cant wait!
Damn I will be humming that all day now!
OD

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

yep it is. its a shame that thats the way i feel, but it is what it is. there are certainly a lot of things i like about the country, especially when compared to others. but really, as long as its viable, i wont ever live permanently again or retire in the states.

now i do have some pride i my job, i signed onto it and agreed to the terms. and i'll do my job as i should until my time is done. but that comes from principle, not much else

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

No man is an island dude.
Not that I agree but kudos for being open and honest.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i've never had any reason to be anything but. not sure what you mean about the island though? but if you would care to discuss it, i dont mind a bit but it should prolly go to PM. since this is getting off topic for even the off-topicness of the thread lol

WingleBeast

I'm no expert but but I would put myself under the knowledgeable. I've been wrong before. But from what I have gathered the greddy stops producing power because its reaching the turbos flow limit, and the aux ports opening, not the engine. In fact the engine is almost asking for more air that the greddy can't provide. The engine flows enough to produce crazy horsepower (ask fd guys) you won't hit flow issues before you hit others like seals and plates separating. The reason the sc max is so wide is because that is its top operating range for those rpms. A turbo can continue to spin faster, a super cannot.

That's not to say the turbo is better, just that your comparing an early spooling turbo to an undersized compressor (sc)

That is why I got mad for you getting Hung up on stock ergonomics powerband. That doesn't matter. At all. Just choose your kit with the right facts. I'm selling my greddy and putting in a pettit just to do something different, Ive had turbo rotaries before, and I love my greddy, I just want to expand my experience. So once again, check both out first before making a choice

And by all means if that is a little wrong someone correct me.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

to this thread ...................................wow

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

Finally some deserved recognition. From the bottom of our (Pettit SC owners) hearts and with teary eyes. Thank You!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

May I contribute, Robbie?

Rocketman1976

Thanks for being on topic. This thread is turning into PaulMasoner vs the world and vice versa.

When things are put that way then it kind of seems like the SC was a good design for the motors characteristics. The supercharger hit's its max flow right at the redline so it is designed to match up well with our motor. It does not over or under shooting the motor's boundaries. Some of the turbo's, like the Greddy, are really not able to produce enough flow for the top end of our motor, and if we did have one that could flow enough, then our seals could break. So it kind of sounds like if you want to go turbo you should get a rebuild and go with a bigger turbo, maybe something along the lines of what Esmeril uses. If you are going to stay with stock internals go with the Pettit, because it will be less strain on your internals but not make as much power as the turbo's. Please feel free to correct me on any of this.

From what I thought I understood, even if we did have a larger turbo our exhaust ports weren't adequate. I know we have 6 intake ports and in actuality only 3 exhaust ports, since the middle one is shared.

I look at it like a motor is basically a pump that moves air/fuel, the more you move the more power you make. Is part of the problem more air can come in than can be let out?
If anyone wants to talk about the Pettit SC please chime in.

california style

You are always welcome Ray!

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

Getting ready to install wideband and other monitors on the new car. I was going to go with the PLX display when I saw this on the www.plxdevices website:

http://www.plxdevices.com/datalogger.html

I decided to opt for this. Also PLX has adapters that will allow wired or wireless data feed directly into a laptop or iPhone/Android.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Not exactly, because the power output is tied to the RPM of the motor it doesn't alter the power curve any, just moves it up. That is just the mechanical reality of a SC.

Seal failure on a turbo vs sc is the same, tuning would be the number one cause. The compressor falling off (Greddy) is due to the compressor size, not the motor.

Not really, since the engine doesn't care where the air comes from, mo' earlier is better from a power production standpoint...the trick is getting it to flow all the way to redline (if your a small turbo guy).

Same strain....same flow (assuming same power output). Just style points.

While this can be an issue - both the SC and the turbo-ed car have the same size ports, and thus the same mass flow...the issue with smaller turbo's boosting way outside their eff range is they may cause backpressure (but that isn't the exhaust ports fault). That resistance to flow called backpressure seems to be the issue Pettit talks about in their little turbo failure article.

Yes and no - we all have the same problem.... moving air in and out of the engine. The type of compressor really makes no difference (with the exception of a too small turbo choking exhaust flow). Why would an SC motor making 330WHP move any less or more air than a turbo motor making 330WHP, ignoring the power curve. Just from a static standpoint.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

good post Kane---how the heck are ya anyway? Butt staying low? I hope your unit can stay safe man. Thats a nightmare--give me the jungle/swamps/mountains etc any day.

From the lack of a better word the "back pressure: discussion was some time ago and it was during the earlier stages of tuning in which the exhaust port heat was observed to affect the side seals? I think most of that has been worked out with mods to the exhaust port to increase its cooling and better understanding of tuning issues?
From what I understand this engine is still not ready to take 15-20lbs of boost?
All are right--air is air, air flow on a fixed volume pump is directly related to rpm--just like kane said.
Heck half the fun of running FI on this one of a kind car is the learning experience it brings.
OD

Kane

iTrader: (1)

It's hot...tomorrow; it will be hot....hehe

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

You definitely found a sticking point. In piston engines, not only does exhaust volume play a role, but also exhaust runner length vs. firing order; equal length exhaust runners can send reversion back to cylinders that are in intake/filling phase, producing postive pressure that the intake charge has to fight, decreasing volumetric efficiency. I always wondered about the exotically intertwined headers until it was pointed out to me the unequal lengths are designed to limit reversion to filling or emptying cylinders and use negative pressure/venturi to assist intake filling and exhaust scavenging. The efficiency of these designs is rpm dependent.

I'd think that such a design would be easier on the Renesis; since it's a two stroke design, you know every time a rotor passes an exhaust port it's trying to get rid of combustion gases; on intake, it's trying to fill. I don't think there's a lot of overlap (3 degrees?) between exhaust and intake ports; doesn't seem like exhaust tuning would facilitate intake filling, but maybe exhaust scavenging. And since there are only two exhaust ports for a fixed rotor timing, there would be a sweet spot for best scavenging. On two stroke motorcycles the exhaust valve area could be varied with rpm to facilitate better scavenging throughout the rpm range. I've always wondered what it would be like if the Renesis could be designed with a variable area exhaust port and some manner of transferring exhaust vacuum to assist intake filling; a sliding shutter across the exhaust port coupled with a solenoid controlled circuit to open a valve to the intake face at appropriate rpm and manifold pressure.

Using a supercharger (or any other F/I) increases MAF; asssuming the tune is right, exhaust volume will jump proportionally (?); so getting back to your question about exhaust restriction, it seems as that the limiting factor in how much exhaust gases can be moved in a given dwell time will be the port size and duration first, then exhaust manifold volume and design second. I'm guessing this is why there is no real increase in performance by changing from the stock exhaust manifold to an aftermarket part; without bridgeporting the engine, larger manifold pipes won't give any extra flow advantage.

Back to your point about talking about the Pettit, I'll be glad to share what little I know; I love mine, and am still amazed and pleased at how well it runs right from the start. Right now I'm running an ExoticSpeed header, only because when I got the car the previous owner had an OBX header on the motor. Not only am I not a fan of the OBX design, the installation was...sketchy. As soon as I get th 110V powerhead on my scissors lift, the stock midpipe is coming off and I'll be going to a non-cat midpipe.

Heat soak is a problem that Denny (OldDragger) has found on his car; he's come up with a secondary radiator system to help shed the head. Pettit has a secondary radiator system that fits on the undertray. S/C owners in hot climates have to be careful of heat buildup in traffic; don't know if turbo users have a similar problem or not. The airflow under the hood of the '8 is pretty poor, especially in traffic. Meth injection is recommended to cool intake charge as well.
Those things considered, whatever else you do is up to you. Pettit has a boost kit with a larger S/C drive pulley and larger injectors; I installed this on my first car, but before I could enjoy it, the fuel line popped off the injector rail and I burned it up (ouch).

The Pettit kit is a lot of fun and dead reliable. I've spent most of the last 25 years on motorcycles; the '8 is my first venture into serious car modding. I also have a Nissan Xterra with a Stillen blower, but in my garage, my RX8 with the Pettit S/C is the queen of the cages.

Ona, huh? I did my residency in Charleston longer ago than I care to remember, and I'm from Philippi. I love my home state and the people.

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

You said a mouthful Kane. I don't know if it's as hot or hotter on the coast, but in the middle of the state, it's just freakin unbearable. Planning on spending the weekend inside my garage cleaning things up. I would absolutely melt in the heat that you guys are in...respect.

102F today. In the shade. And no, its definitely not a dry heat...more like a Jacuzzi with out the chicks in bikinis.

JMKuco

Cam (from Pettit) sent me the quotation for the boost up kit.
As it is not cheap, who have this kit and is there a huge difference ?

thanks !

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

Juan (marsredr) is the only one I know running the boost kit. He'd be the one to give you information and insight.

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

In regards to help my RX8 airflow and maybe others I considering modifying my front bumper bar by replacing the huge square OEM piece for something round and smaller. I don’t have the issues that some of you have with the stop and go/heavy traffic since my RX8 is mostly driven on the highway. I also have a BHR aluminum radiator, which has worked flawlessly for over two years and the Mazmart water pump/thermostat combo. I’m also running the Racing Beat front bumper that provides a bigger front bumper air intake area like many other aftermarket bumpers.

Yes, I could eliminate the front bumper bar since all the other attachments, to include the OEM intake hose components, were removed when I installed the SC/Racing Beat bumper. But I read somewhere that the front bumper bar is vital for maintaining structure integrity of the front end. I believe it was on a Mazda RX8 information brochure but I cannot recall at the moment. That is why that heavy and very air flow obstructed bar has stayed in my RX8. BTW, I don’t really care about the “benefits” that can provide in case of an accident since the entire foam/OEM front bumper safety component were removed. Besides, I don’t think I will do much if I get involve on a front-end collision at highway speeds.

I have attached a rough sketch diagram of what I would like to do. Please let me know if someone knows an aftermarket vendor that is currently selling or maybe BHR would like to take a stab at it.

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

I’m not the only one running the bigger pulley. There are others out there too. Before you take that next step you will have to address other components upgrade/changes.

Here is the list.

1. If you don’t have a water/methanol kit then get one. If you do then used a 50/50 mixture of VP Racing M-5.

2. Make sure your ignition coils/wires are in great condition. However, I highly recommend an aftermarket ignition kit like the one BHR offers or look at my MSD ignition do-it-yourself thread for information of how to make your own along with a set of MSD Superconductor wires.

3. Make sure that your OEM fuel pump is in good shape or replace it with a new one or an aftermarket like BHR. I’m running a fairly new OEM pump.

4. You need to get rid of your OEM exhaust manifold and install a header. Racing Beat or Exotic Speed quality where the exhaust runners run independently up to the rear collector. DO NOT buy a cheap heather like an OBX.

5. You would have to change the upper fuel rail fuel injectors (the yellow ones) for a set of 2009/10 RX8 injectors. The 6 port 2009/10 RX8 only comes with 4 injectors instead of 6 injectors. The 2009/10 P1 injectors will go in the center of the fuel rail and the 2009/10 P2 injectors will go at both ends of the fuel rail.

6. Grounding and Plugs. I have several aftermarket ground wires to include one directly from the negative post of the battery to the car body and from there to a bolt located in the middle plate (iron) right between the front and rear rotor housing spark plugs. Change your spark plugs to NGK R6725-11.5 spark plug leading and trailing.

Note: The flash will stay the same.

As you can see there are many issues that need to be address ($$$) before you take the next step. Not doing so will result in catastrophic engine failure.