rotarenvy

it probably wont help you since they would cost too much to import one.
but, I have noticed that the .au and .jp front crash bar is a different design to the US version.

just look at your drawing then compare to the US. the US version seems to extend down another 1-2" compared to the .au version.

the main attachment posts would also provide crumple zones which some of your sketches eliminate. I would just use a large diameter alloy tube mandrel bent to form a large U. weld some plates to it and bolt it on. cheep and simple to fabricate.

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

I have neever seen the .au/.jp crash bar. Could you provide me with the mazda part number.

The mandrell U tube/plates sounds like a great idea too but I do not have the equipment to do it myself.

Thanks for the feedback.

rotarenvy

US


.au


the US one is flat where as the .au one is pressed.

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I got a great laugh reading your sig. "back with a ******* vengance"

At least Juan can spell.

"vengance"

Thanks for that!

And on that note, I'll see you guys in a couple of months.

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

Wow, great stuff.

I just measured mine (US) and it is 120mm wide (4.75 inches). It looks like the (AU) is about 40mm (1.5 inches) thinner and towards the bottom. The US “Reinforcement Bumper” part number is FE01-50-070D / FE01-50-070E

Can someone get the AU part number? I might be able to order it via my account with Mazdamotorsports.

Rocketman1976

Thanks for all your input, it is very helpful.

One thing with this part. I kind of see that the turbo will be making the 330 hp sooner, like around 7400 rpms and the SC makes it at just about the car's stock peak of 8200-8400. This kind of tells me that the turbo, yes does make more power, but by hitting it's limit too early it loses out on the power the motor makes. If it was adequate, it would peak at 8400 and utilize the greatest gain from the motors power, maybe making 370 rwhp. The SC, like you said, hits its limit at the top of the rpm range, which is right at the motors peak. Basically it's not having to add as much hp, because at 8400 rpms the motor is making more power ,and at 7400 it is making less(in NA form).

Would it be best to have a really big turbo and run less PSI because at least the turbo could handle the higher RPM's? I guess we would have more lag, but it would match up better. I would guess? Or does it not work that way?


The SC is adding less HP and using more of what the motor has to offer which seems like it would be less of a strain on internals.

It just sounds like the turbo is something that takes a lot more work to be a good match to the stock motor. The SC is just a weaker power adder when you look at the entire range of rpms, so therefore it doesn't put as much strain on the motor.

I don't mean to offend anyone, if that is a reaction, but it sounds like the SC is just the safer route if you looking for some more power but not wanting to go ***** out. However if your experienced in working with Rotarys and turbo, then you can get the greatest gain when going with turbo.

I also think the greater amount of freedom in adjusting and making more power with a turbo ends to be the downfall of most of the turbo'd RX-8's out there. With the Pettit, once it's setup with a pulley and a tune it just stays that way, most of the time.

I agree with you, reliable. That's pretty much the point I've been looking for with all my above comments and questions.


I actually just moved up here from the "Melt My Skin State" or some might call it the "Sunshine State" back in February. Man I am so glad I moved up here. You are so right about the people, they are a much more laid back crowd then what I spent 32 years around down south. I love all he colors the trees have up here, Florida has nothing but green leaves and palm trees. Hell, I even love the snow, slipping and sliding in the 8 is an adventure!

I don't know if it was around when you were here, but down in Charleston Mama Rosa's Pizza is one of my favorites.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Well, that is an oversimplification. I was just trying to make an example to point out where the systems differ and where they are the same. In reality a properly sized turbo would peak at or about 7500-7000 or so, but the "falloff" accounted for it would still be very close to a SC peak HP, that is where the whole are under the curve thing comes from.

Simply put, you want the most power in the widest rpm range for a fast car, a properly sized turbo does it better today than a SC. Is it worth the other draw backs mentioned? Plumbing, tuning, boost controllers, yada yada. Well the is up to the individual to judge.

Rocketman1976

You are helping to make my decision even harder...

SC = a little easier and safer (IMO) because pulley controlled boost level.
Turbo = faster but more elaborate of an install. Also the driver will need the ability to find a safe level of power and be happy at that point, that would help in keeping it reliable.

For those that don't think the turbo is faster. I have watched many 1/4 mile runs and with similar peak hp, and in some cases less peak hp in the turbo car, but the turbo car primarily gets the higher trap speed and faster time.

The 'right' turbo will make power earlier on our the RX-8.

I am sure they are both a lot of fun and a big, big difference over NA.

I think I am going to end up going turbo. I do so much miss the sound of spooling in my Supra, but one of the main reason's is also price. If I can divide the cost up over I time, I find it much easier to bring myself to spend so much on HP. I like to do things in steps and it will be easier to buy a Greddy base kit, leave that in the garage, then buy the upgrade, then over time buy any extras I might need here and there (BHR Ignition, radiator, blow off, oil pan, guages, etc...), and then finally get it all installed at once.

I'll probably not go nuts and have it tuned to 280 hp until I decide to do a rebuild, and then see if I can push 350.

BTW are you back to running turbo? I thought I read a while back that you went NA with a rebuild and I see your 220 hp quote. Unless that's sarcasm

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Not all turbo's make power earlier... look at SC top fuel cars.....just style points based on the motor and application.

The turbo quandary for most is exactly that, finding the right power level and leaving it alone.... it is very easy to push a button.

I have always been turbo - I have never even driven my car NA. The 220hp was from a dyno before I deployed, the results are somewhat suspect as I was pulling 4.8volts on the MAF at the time....hahahahah, still it's funny.

Rocketman1976

I edited my above.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Good discussion and yall are exactly right.
if 1/4 miles times are what you seek (or that type of hard kick--then yep turbo could be your thing. Turbos can also be set up for smooth delivery throughout the rpm range.
Turbos are a good thing.
Now the reason I choose the s.c. is, to me, its simpler, more oem type power delivery (which I really like on the road course) out of the box and less issues with engine bay heat.

Ray/Phil that cai yall fabbed ? What kind of IAT's reduction did you see?

Off to vacation yall---!
OD

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, Juan, much appreciated. Whether our BHR/Griffin or the Mazmart/Davis radiator, both are good units. BHR just happened to show Rick and Paul our version about a year before they released theirs.

MM and I have discussed a lighter bumper-bar and the reason Mazda did theirs the way they did was largely because it was less expensive. BHR can probably do a lighter, but equally strong, version in chrome-moly but we have something else we will do, first (that you regular track-guys will LOVE), then we can visit this idea. My biggest concern is that it is one thing to play around with emissions modifications but quite another to play around with safety systems, so I am quite cautious about it.

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

Here's the reason I went with S/C. Kitschy, yes, fake blower, yes, but it always stuck with me. No apologies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiNZbcEzogU&feature=fvst

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Having installed both the GReddy and Pettit kits, and all the related ancillaries and hardware with their kits as delivered, I can tell you that neither installation is easier than the other one. With the turbo kit, you are under the car. With the s/c kit you are bending over the fenders all day. Both kits increase the underhood temps, both kits have intake inlets located under the hood, and the main difference with heat-management may simply be that most people use the OEM exhaust manifold on their s/c installations. Those of you with aftermarket headers and header-wrap installed on your s/c kits probably have the same underhood heat issues as the turbo guys who use headerwrap on their manifolds, as well.

In my experience, there is no "superior" way to stuff more air in your Renesis. The difference, as I have said for a LONG time (and has been mentioned ad nauseaum around here) is the delivery of the torque curve across the RPM band.

Some people want immediate torque delivery down low and some want a factory-like delivery of the torque curve. To each their own.

Basically, turbo systems make their power via engine load while superchargers make their power via engine RPM. When I receive calls/e-mails on this matter, this point is where I start the discussion and people tell me that I have helped them to better understand the ramifications of each method of F/I.

As for the intake temp delta when using the "super-duper CAI" I did for both Phil and Dondo, you'd hafta ask Phil because I felt there was nothing to lose in doing it the way I did it and only Phil would know the specific numbers involved. He probably didn't bother to look, though, because he is always yelling at me about something.......

marsredr100

iTrader: (1)

Did you noticed the exhaust pipes on the side right before the rear tires. Humm! Hope BHR watched the youtube video too.

zoom44

thats a real roots Weiand 6-71 Blower



http://www.jegs.com/p/Weiand/Weiand-...49014/10002/-1

Rocketman1976

Yeah this eventually ended up being very educational for me (after all the bickering cleared). I want to thank everyone that contributed.

Like you I was thinking about the Pettit because it would be a little easier and quicker self install. I was worried about down time and figured the Pettit would be a quicker turn around for me to do over a weekend. Well that has changed, just this week I got a company vehicle, so that problem is out the window.

I'm glad I heard about the heat soak because I will definitely use a water/meth injection no matter what kit I use. The shop I am going to use said $300 to add the kit.

In my muscle car days I was always told it was not good to use heat wrap because it keeps more heat in the headers or turbo and doesn't allow airflow to cool them off, so then the heat goes back up into the block. It's almost like putting covers on a heat sink on a PC video card. That to me still seems like it would be true. Do you think it would be better to just cover the things near the exhaust that you don't want the heat getting into, at least wherever it is possible?

Do you think it would hurt cooling properties if I was to anodize an intercooler black? I don't like advertising that my 1.3 has a helper

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I could not care less how a person decides to stuff more air in their engine as I am simply envious that they have chosen to do so and I am still N/A.

Nitrous is cool and all but it ain't F/I.

If they are a customer, regardless of which F/I system they have chosen, they get our 100% best effort with whatever it is they need from us.

WingleBeast

firstly, headers and exhaust parts in general aren't designed to cool with airflow, or else they would have fins and other sorts of cooling additions; however it would be stupid to say it is a null point. header wrap is kind of a poor mans solution, you want to keep the heat in the exhaust gases themselves, and wrap is basically the first spot you can put a barrier.

the real answer here is high temp ceramic coating, like the 2200 degree stuff. get a good company that will spray the insides of the pipes, and it can keep heat out of the walls of the exhaust header. works wonders for spool time too.


PS most of the gripe from header wrap is that it will corrode the metal because it retains moisture, and people have often blamed it on other things based on assumptions.

dondo

iTrader: (7)

mine are now 3-7 degrees over ambient

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Keeping hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold is always the bane of internal combustion engines. I think ceramic coating is the way to go, I went header wrap due to being in HI and there are no ceramic shops there. Now that I am back on the mainland, next time the turbo is out I will probably send it for coating.

As for IC, I went with a VERRRRRRRRY light coat of black paint, just enough to knock the shine off of it, works wonders for stealthiness. There are several IC vendors who will sell you an anodized one, I have no idea what it would take to anodize an existing one.

Mawnee

I have my manifold and downpipe wrapped. Never had any heat issues. Even if I go out and beat on it in the middle of Florida summer with my Paris Hilton tune(rich and retarded)

JMKuco

Hi all,

After LOTS of Mod (move the battery to the back of the car for exemple)
I am going to buy the Pettit boost up kit (to increase the S/C PSI).

I know some of you did this mod, do you feel a TRUE difference ?

thanks !

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

A black radiator will shed heat faster than a shiny one, all other things equal - "black body effect". I don't know if it will be significant enough to notice, but it won't hurt anything but your wallet.

Anodizing? Hadn't thought of that. Do you have a shop that can do that? I have some large parts I'd like anodized instead of just painted, and I don't want to put them through the head cycle to cerakote them.

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

Assume the whole radiator is aluminum. Degrease and wash; soak in lye for a minute to get a matte finish. Immerse in anodizing solution (15% sulfuric acid and water); a large (1/3 of the surface area of the radiator) lead or 6061 aluminum cathode, the radiator becomes the anode. Time in anodizing bath dependent on surface area and current, generally 1 hour, maintaining optimal 70 degree temp. Rinse in cold water; dye in 180 degree dye bath for 15 minutes, rinse, seal in 180 degree sealant bath.

Easy for little pieces, not so easy for the home brewer for a radiator.