Bschwemer's Custom Turbo Build
04-10-2010, 09:12 PM
#129
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yeah, no kidding....
I've been screwing around with the Cobb some (since I'm runing stock primary's/ secondaries and 840cc P2's now). No matter how much I read I can't for the life of me figure out some of this stuff. It's driving me nuts. I did however get the idle set perfect.
STFT are at 0% and AFR's are at 14.8. Cruising at 50ish mph, it just pulls 25%+. I've tried adjusting maf, and it helped a little but it's still way to rich. Tomorrow I'll look into the latencies for sec/aux injectors. I may call KG parts to see if they record them when they clean/modify/flow test. MAF scaling/injector latency is really screwing with me. I'll play with it a bit more tomorrow.
What a learning curve compared to piston motors.
I've been screwing around with the Cobb some (since I'm runing stock primary's/ secondaries and 840cc P2's now). No matter how much I read I can't for the life of me figure out some of this stuff. It's driving me nuts. I did however get the idle set perfect.
STFT are at 0% and AFR's are at 14.8. Cruising at 50ish mph, it just pulls 25%+. I've tried adjusting maf, and it helped a little but it's still way to rich. Tomorrow I'll look into the latencies for sec/aux injectors. I may call KG parts to see if they record them when they clean/modify/flow test. MAF scaling/injector latency is really screwing with me. I'll play with it a bit more tomorrow. What a learning curve compared to piston motors.
04-10-2010, 10:19 PM
#131
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I know my issues are in the maf scaling, I just havent gotten a grasp on how to scale it properly yet.
Edit: I'm a dumbass... just saw I need to do it in open loop... I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens.
04-10-2010, 10:54 PM
#132
Maf scaling the easy way :
you have three LTFT points for clarity I'll call them :
idle up to 8g/s approx
cruise 8g/s-18g/s approx
load 18g/s + (but adjusted in closed loop up to around 40g/s )
if your LTFT has settled down all you need to do is adjust each of those areas by whatever LTFT is reported in that flow range .
EDIT : The P1s are the only injectors that operate in any of those ranges .....
you have three LTFT points for clarity I'll call them :
idle up to 8g/s approx
cruise 8g/s-18g/s approx
load 18g/s + (but adjusted in closed loop up to around 40g/s )
if your LTFT has settled down all you need to do is adjust each of those areas by whatever LTFT is reported in that flow range .
EDIT : The P1s are the only injectors that operate in any of those ranges .....
Last edited by Brettus; 04-10-2010 at 11:10 PM.
04-10-2010, 11:13 PM
#134
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WB02 reads pig rich if I give it much gas while cruising... it pegs at 10.1 as soon as pressure hits atmosphere. If I drive just to drive, very carefully cruising, it runs in the high 13's - mid 14's. Not bad until you give it a little gas to get up a hill or something. Could be a bit leaner while crusing of course, but its a start.
I don't know how this map was created, so I'm shooting in the dark on adjusting it properly. The guy I use to work for made it for me. If I knew more about "tuning" I'd create my own base map. Tons of info here, just trying to dig through it all and figure little bits out. I'd like to atleast get it setup myself before taking it to a tuner or buying the MM tune for fine adjustments. I'd actually like to learn how it works. Maybe it's time for me to join one of the web sessions on how to play with this gadget.
I'll post a log tomorrow.
Last edited by BSchwemer; 04-10-2010 at 11:27 PM.
04-12-2010, 01:48 AM
#136
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Got the low load cells scaled today. Cruising much better, and relativly close to 14.7. Gonna start working on the WOT/BOOST scaling tomorrow. Which tables in Cobb represent "throttle enrichment?" Is it the "throttle fuel gear maps?" The help says that has to deal with closed loop, so I'm a bit skeptical about messing with them since I'm running in OL right now. Trying to follow the "how to scale your maf" thread, so bear with me! Thanks guys!
Oh, how I wish the Live Tuner would work for our cars. It would make things MUCH easier!
Oh, how I wish the Live Tuner would work for our cars. It would make things MUCH easier!
04-15-2010, 07:03 AM
#137
Because there are only two kinds of detonation - damaging and catastrophic.
The stock seals don't "take" detonation - they let some get by into the next chamber.
If anything, you would want a softer seal that would take minor detonation without breaking.
But it would still fail under typical detonation and the wear would be unacceptable in a street car. Remember, the apex seal is, essentially, a dry seal.
A harder seal would just break at even lower levels of detonation.
Its hard to conceive of a "better" material than the stock seals. Mazda's seals are made out of an extremely exotic, low yield material and are borne out of decades of research.
The stock seals don't "take" detonation - they let some get by into the next chamber.
If anything, you would want a softer seal that would take minor detonation without breaking.
But it would still fail under typical detonation and the wear would be unacceptable in a street car. Remember, the apex seal is, essentially, a dry seal.
A harder seal would just break at even lower levels of detonation.
Its hard to conceive of a "better" material than the stock seals. Mazda's seals are made out of an extremely exotic, low yield material and are borne out of decades of research.
I really think a softer seal has got to be better in an FI engine - increased wear accepted .
04-15-2010, 03:39 PM
#139
I'm guessing that Mazda made them that way because they had their warranty in mind and were less concerned about detonation than wear .
In an FI application the reverse is applicable . I don't expect my engine to last 100,000 miles but would like that the seals don't snap in two should detonation occur under boost .
So , as long as the Esmeril seals don't totally bend out of shape and jump out of the groove I think they have potential to be a superior choice for FI engines .
You must be getting sick of pulling your engines out every 6 months by now so why don't you give them a shot ? Pretty sure they are much the same price as Mazda seals (in my case they were ).
04-15-2010, 04:38 PM
#142
Last two have been blown coolant seals. The first was from sudden overheating on the track (Firebird West last May) from loss of coolant through a blown hose. No cloud, no warning and nearly instant 260°F engine temp. The second just un-sandwiched at the track (Arroyo Seco in New Mexico in January) after more than 90 straight minutes (and a full tank of gas) of nearly constant WOT.
I'm studding the next motor and converting to a top-mount IC to combat this issue.
The third back was something that passed through the motor (last "What Happens in Vegas meet) leaving all the seals intact, but destroyed an iron and a housing (and the turbine of the turbo). Probably a piece of debris caught in the IC or cold-side plumbing. Never found it, just the massive gouges.
I reused those apex seals since they were still in good condition.
Detonation is a tuning problem. I don't have those.
I'm studding the next motor and converting to a top-mount IC to combat this issue.
The third back was something that passed through the motor (last "What Happens in Vegas meet) leaving all the seals intact, but destroyed an iron and a housing (and the turbine of the turbo). Probably a piece of debris caught in the IC or cold-side plumbing. Never found it, just the massive gouges.
I reused those apex seals since they were still in good condition.
Detonation is a tuning problem. I don't have those.
04-15-2010, 04:57 PM
#144
Here in the desert, driving 10/10 in 90°+ for hours on end at 400g/sec+ can be a bit problematic.
Hanging the IC out front isn't helping. I'm also going for fully-lined and steel-braided hoses for everything for which I can't make a hard-line.
BTW - both coolant seal issues happened on the combustion-side (not at the exhaust ports). So much for the Pettit theory on turbo rotary failures.
04-15-2010, 05:08 PM
#145
Did you read my intercooler comparison test ? I have run with both the Greddy and an oversize 12" deep intercooler and ended up going back to the Greddy because of cooling issues . Pretty sure you could still run a front mount 9"deep X 4" wide without compromising airflow to the rad.
Any sign of the burning around the exhaust port that they claim ?
Any sign of the burning around the exhaust port that they claim ?
04-15-2010, 05:28 PM
#147
Did you read my intercooler comparison test ? I have run with both the Greddy and an oversize 12" deep intercooler and ended up going back to the Greddy because of cooling issues . Pretty sure you could still run a front mount 9"deep X 4" wide without compromising airflow to the rad.
Even with the IC out of the way it might not be enough.
BTW - my IC outlet temps are near ambient when speed is elevated.
Not any more than a stock motor, which shows "burning" there.
"Burning" is normal for the side port exhaust and has nothing to do with the turbo. As long as the irons don't warp, they can turn purple with no ill effect.
On the track, they immediately saturate.
They are also heavy and have plumbing concerns and still need a heat exchanger as big as an FMIC to work, anyway.
I'm making a modified "V-mount" setup for my car. Best of both worlds.
04-16-2010, 01:24 AM
#150
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I knew Air to water exchange is efficient but I didnt know it was very suseptable to heat soak but it makes sense. Actually I would like to see a V mount too. In what way is your design modified? I assume it has to do with placement and angle.