Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Some people will blame anyone but themselves!

I didn't say that. LOL. It was the keyboards fault

Cheers,
Hymee.

MadDog

yep.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I disagree, and now it's in the trunk.

You can argue if you like, but guess who gets to say or

Everyone is missing the point, you keep thinking in one user terms.
It doesn't ******* matter to me if any of you can make it work.
It's to much trouble and to much money for me to sell with a straight face.

My goal is to sell the top of the line high tech unit. The requirment for that isn't just a high price. Don't ever think because it costs more that it's better. Not so. If we all bought that we'd all drive MB'z.
Sure, always expect to pay for what you get, just be smart enough to get what intended to buy.

Now, can you guys read between the lines of those two statments?

As you all know I'm no diplomat, I speak what I think no matter
how it hurts me in the end.

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

Too bad a person can't just reflash the stock ECU...

That would make any kit less expensive...

8 is enough

Hey RP it looks like Racing beat can reflash the ecm see below from thier website

- ECU/PCM Reprogramming - (Update 6/06) - Good news, Bad news. The good news is that we finally developed a flash for the RX-8 that offers improved power and performance! We have undertaken several successful test reflashes on 2004 RX-8's, but the bad news is that we are currently limited to only the 2004 model. We are currently researching this limitation and will post more information in the near future.

Is there any way to leverage thier work??

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

like I have said before-- When RP does something and offers it for sale it is done right to HIS standards(which I accept). I will wait.
olddragger

SC-ed

I believe if someone go that way, he know what is he up to
and wont blame anyone but himself.
But what if Xguy buy the kit, go to a shop and say "Hey, I want you to install this SC for me, but I don't like the power it makes. Can you make it do more?". And they " Sure, No problem." and put some cheap EMB and blow the engine. Then say to Xguy "Ummmh, this SC kit was bad..."
You know what's next...
Just some thoughts.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

what he said, and i have a bottle of adult beverage invested in this project...

i hope it helps rp!!!! or is it all gone??

beers

Japan8

Actually I do know exactly what you mean. And you'll also know from my posts that I have had the same opinion... which is why I am always pushing for people to stop wasting time with this old technology and get a ECU flash tuner out. I can bet that some people will say... hey it's one more solution out there and it's there now. My response is yeah it is... and the development, etc. of it is also resources that could have been devoted to a flash tuner, but weren't and will never be. In other words... one less chance for a flash tuner to be developed.

Any ideas why I always mention Saleen and Kenne Bell in relation to FI and flash tuning? Not just because I am more familiar with them, but because they have some economy of scale... they have a pretty big market and a very successful product. Hell... Saleen's stuff is sold/installed at dealers and retains the factory warranty. Both makers' kits simply bolt-on, flash the ECU and you are ready to go. Their kits require no tuning, no dyno time, no blown up engines... no worries. If run within specified parameters... it's as good as factory OEM. From a business standpoint (which is what Richard HAS to look at)... this setup is easier for people to install, easier for him to support and leaves little to no liability of people blowing up their engines. Seeing their popularity and such... this is what people want (the average consumer in this market). I know that this is what I want in a FI kit.

Japan8

If the S/C comes with it's own pre-programmed engine management (flash, piggyback, or whatever) and it's clearly written (as it is on Kenne Bell's site) that you do not need to and should not dyno tune the kit. Even if you add exhaust or whatever later... the system is programmed to always run optimally (sensor feedback). Changing the tune yourself = void warranty

Not everyone who buys a "kit" without engine mangement knows what they are doing... or is employing a good shop that actually knows what they are doing.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i watched a procharger mustang on a dyno that they were working on the ecu flash for it... it was the first 06 they had tested... the ecu was totally different that the 05. what they did was amazing...

the problem is that what are the mustang sales... audi sales the ford truck sales... the people that are doing this stuff are in it for the money. and that is fine.

just not enough #s in the rx8...

beers

guitarjunkie28

rich, i wasn't trying to sell you on using it. it's too expensive and doesn't have the right features for your kit. all i said is i made it work.

Japan8

It is amazing isn't it? A different ECu in the 2006 than the 2005? Why change it after 1 year?! Or did you mean 2004 and 2005? The ECU used in the new Mustang is really advanced according what I've read.

Oh... I understand about the difference in sales, but... what about the Subaru's... STi, WRX, Forrester, Legacy... what about the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution? What about VAG cars? BMW's?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

it was an 05 and 06. the ecu was not different the coding was...

the subies are all linked together. same or simalar ecu... so you get one you get them all.... the rx8 ecu is different from them all... and is compatable with nothing...

we are doomed by are #s... thank you to racing beat... hope a deal can be struck...

beers

BaronVonBigmeat

You can't just look at total cars sold with a particular ECU, you have to look at how many owners of a given brand car are interested in modifying their car and/or voiding the warranty. Most people who wanted power didn't buy an RX-8 to begin with, they bought WRX's, evo's, and so forth. Limited production + different owner demographics = not very big potential sales.

It's sort of the opposite for the GTO guys from what I understand. Loads of engine performance enhancers, and not nearly as much in the way of suspension mods and bodykits. People interested primarily in handling and looks didn't buy a GTO to begin with.

I tend to think that the 8's engine aftermarket will not truly take off until there are large numbers of 8's on the road with enough years/miles on them to have voided warranties. Or until they have depreciated enough to be an affordable alternative project car to a FD.

sstricker

im feeling lazy right now...... when is this kit SUPPOSED to be completed? is there an ETA yet?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

when it is done.

and likely two days after you buy something else.

beers

sstricker

haha, swoope! not funny! that's exactly what i'm afraid of!!! I would much rather have this kit then a turbo kit... but.... i will take what I can get when funding is available!!!

patrick_andraste

I figure I still have a wait, so I went and blew my wad on carbon fiber bodywork for the Ducati.

so, now I get to stash away again. Amazing how a lack of toy money can give you patience.

Razz1

Yes, and that time is comming soon, so don't spend your money.

See yaww at Seven Stock

toxin440

Well it's a good thing it might take a BIT longer to roll out with a commercially available FI system (Axial Flow, Petit, etc) that gives me a little bit of time to take care of some basic mods and save as well.

I've never owned a boosted car and am very cautious as well as very consumer conscious... like any normal person, if I were to drop $5,000+ dollars for parts and even more for installation and tuning and in the end have something thats not at LEAST as drivable as what I have now... I would be quite pissed. right now I'm putting about 185 horses to the wheels (conservative estimate) as the only mod I have right now is a high flow CAT/midpipe from RX7.com

what would make me super happy would be a supercharging system that would put 280-300 to the wheels, not cost over $7,000 installed and tuned and retain all the creature comforts/drivability of my stock RX8. hmmm am i living in a dream world?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i think if you take out installed it could happen...

beers

Japan8

G35, 350Z, S2000, Miata... How many BMW's are modded out of the total sold? I'm not saying that you're entirely wrong... just that there is enough of a market to warrant ECU flash development. Particularly if your company already makes one for other brands. You have the basic hardware and know-how that reduces the amount of investment necessary to make it happen. It just seems more like no one cares. It's not just the RX-8... but ALMOST all Mazdas... even though there are a number of Mazda3 and Mazda6 on the road... and plenty of modded ones. It can also be a chicken and egg situation... no one mods them much because there are few products available besides exhaust and intake. Since few are modded, no one wants to invest in building a flash tuner. In this situation... it doesn't work for every model and make, but in the case of the RX-8... build it and they will come. Once good affordable FI kits are widely available more people who want power will pickup a used RX-8 for cheap and bolt-on FI.

The GTO is in a bit of a different boat though. It has either the LS1 or LS2 engine... which is used in other cars already. That helped to make for not only more units sold, but also gave the engine a head start on the aftermarket.

I don't think it's the warranty thing so much. I think it has to do with costs first (needs to depreciate more) and second lack of straight line performance in stock form combined with a lack of an aftermarket remedy.

bripab007

I can tell you with assurance that, despite many people's hopes/dreams in the Miata/MX-5 community, we've never had flash capability either. And the Miata's been around for 16+ years and sold a helluva lot more units than the RX-8; we should be so lucky!

Our option used to be stand-alone ECU for $1,500+ or nothing. Now at least we have the e-Manage for $250-500, although, of course, it's far less capable. People are now getting into the Megasquirt in the Miata community because they don't feel like spending $1,500-3,000 to have full control over their fuel, timing and boost control.

Japan8

yep... it seriously looks like it's a Mazda thing. The only question is why...