9krpmrx8's Boost Build Thread
06-19-2011, 05:15 PM
#354
My car is down for a motor change and some other stuff and while I have the intercooler and my fluidyne oil cooler out I am going to have them coated with a heat dissipation coating that claims to increase heat transfer by 35-40% If I get an increase of 10% I will be happy. Infact, depending on the results of the intercooler and oil cooler I might have my BHR radiator treated and see if I can ditch my secondary radiator.
http://www.nicindustries.com/heat_dissipation.php
I have not read every page of your thread, so i apologize if it has already been mentioned, but what injectors are you going to go with? I tried running stock with modified p2's (yellows). I was making 300-325 RWHP (with the supercharger power loss and drivetrain loss, thats like 425 flywheel) and running very lean (likely caused a side seal spring failure).
I am upgrading to the green S2 (primary) for the primary injectors, and modified yellows for secondary and P2. Finding a set of used greens might be hard. I had to go with new ones from mazda part #N3r1-13-250. Should flow about 400 CC's and have better fuel atomization. So in all I added about 600-800 cc's or around 30% more fuel from my previous set up.
06-20-2011, 01:51 AM
#355
Highway,
I am not sure what all 9k is having coated on his set up but 9k is also bringing in my IC and SC outlet pipes to be coated. I have herd the same #s on the heat dissipation coating we will be using. Like you if I get even 10% Ill be happy.... + then my intercooler will be more "stealth".
On my SC outlet pipe I will be have a thermal barrier coating to try and help keep heat out of my engine bay as it has been a problem with at least one other with my kit.
I believe the plan for now is to use stock balanced and blueprinted injectors. We will be turning in a minimum of two full sets for the balancing session.
I am not sure what all 9k is having coated on his set up but 9k is also bringing in my IC and SC outlet pipes to be coated. I have herd the same #s on the heat dissipation coating we will be using. Like you if I get even 10% Ill be happy.... + then my intercooler will be more "stealth".
On my SC outlet pipe I will be have a thermal barrier coating to try and help keep heat out of my engine bay as it has been a problem with at least one other with my kit.
I believe the plan for now is to use stock balanced and blueprinted injectors. We will be turning in a minimum of two full sets for the balancing session.
06-20-2011, 03:52 AM
#356
I have not read every page of your thread, so i apologize if it has already been mentioned, but what injectors are you going to go with? I tried running stock with modified p2's (yellows). I was making 300-325 RWHP (with the supercharger power loss and drivetrain loss, thats like 425 flywheel) and running very lean (likely caused a side seal spring failure).
I am upgrading to the green S2 (primary) for the primary injectors, and modified yellows for secondary and P2. Finding a set of used greens might be hard. I had to go with new ones from mazda part #N3r1-13-250. Should flow about 400 CC's and have better fuel atomization. So in all I added about 600-800 cc's or around 30% more fuel from my previous set up.
I am upgrading to the green S2 (primary) for the primary injectors, and modified yellows for secondary and P2. Finding a set of used greens might be hard. I had to go with new ones from mazda part #N3r1-13-250. Should flow about 400 CC's and have better fuel atomization. So in all I added about 600-800 cc's or around 30% more fuel from my previous set up.
The modded yellows flow a **** load less than what we have been led to believe . Around about the same as blues by my reckoning . Not surprising that you ran out of injector if your flywheel HP was as you say .
06-20-2011, 11:17 AM
#358
I dynoed 300 RWHP but then I upgraded my intake (cooler air and bigger filter) and my pulleys so it wouldnt slip and the boost increased. I was maxing out my maf from 8200 RPM all the way to redline. Maf scalled by MM. I never got close to maxing it when I made 300 RWHP. So 325 RWHP is a fair number. 17-20% drivetrain loss and add another 25-40 HP for the procharger. Puts me well over 400 BHP. Flywheel sees less, but the motor is making the power.
06-20-2011, 01:09 PM
#361
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
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What are you coating and with what?
My car is down for a motor change and some other stuff and while I have the intercooler and my fluidyne oil cooler out I am going to have them coated with a heat dissipation coating that claims to increase heat transfer by 35-40% If I get an increase of 10% I will be happy. Infact, depending on the results of the intercooler and oil cooler I might have my BHR radiator treated and see if I can ditch my secondary radiator.
http://www.nicindustries.com/heat_dissipation.php
I have not read every page of your thread, so i apologize if it has already been mentioned, but what injectors are you going to go with? I tried running stock with modified p2's (yellows). I was making 300-325 RWHP (with the supercharger power loss and drivetrain loss, thats like 425 flywheel) and running very lean (likely caused a side seal spring failure).
I am upgrading to the green S2 (primary) for the primary injectors, and modified yellows for secondary and P2. Finding a set of used greens might be hard. I had to go with new ones from mazda part #N3r1-13-250. Should flow about 400 CC's and have better fuel atomization. So in all I added about 600-800 cc's or around 30% more fuel from my previous set up.
My car is down for a motor change and some other stuff and while I have the intercooler and my fluidyne oil cooler out I am going to have them coated with a heat dissipation coating that claims to increase heat transfer by 35-40% If I get an increase of 10% I will be happy. Infact, depending on the results of the intercooler and oil cooler I might have my BHR radiator treated and see if I can ditch my secondary radiator.
http://www.nicindustries.com/heat_dissipation.php
I have not read every page of your thread, so i apologize if it has already been mentioned, but what injectors are you going to go with? I tried running stock with modified p2's (yellows). I was making 300-325 RWHP (with the supercharger power loss and drivetrain loss, thats like 425 flywheel) and running very lean (likely caused a side seal spring failure).
I am upgrading to the green S2 (primary) for the primary injectors, and modified yellows for secondary and P2. Finding a set of used greens might be hard. I had to go with new ones from mazda part #N3r1-13-250. Should flow about 400 CC's and have better fuel atomization. So in all I added about 600-800 cc's or around 30% more fuel from my previous set up.
We (Hoss-05 and I) will likely be going with the zirconium coatings even though they are not the prettiest color wise. He does the coatings for Corky Bell's stuff so he is well respected.
For my power levels, the stock injectors seem to be just fine from everything I have read. Hoss-05 got an extra set of stock injectors as well, so once I drop them all off, SARX will have a set of injectors available at all times in case we need them.
06-20-2011, 01:10 PM
#362
I do know that the Modified yellows flow more then the stock blues. Modified blues would be the highest flowing S1 injector. I am guessing you could get S2 secondary injectors to modify for even higher flow but with my new green s2 injectors in the primary and secondary/p2 both running modified yellows, I will have enough fuel.
06-20-2011, 01:25 PM
#364
I dont know the specs on the RC injectors, but I do not know that aftermarket injectors can create tunning issues, plus I already had 2 full sets of stock injectors. Modifying 2 sets of yellows cost me about $100. The green s2 injectors are the best choice for the primary injectors. They have an improved spray patter and the proper % increase over stock. Dropping in big P2 injectors and not changing p1 and secondary injectors makes tunning more difficult. Not impossible but just more difficult. Driveabilty can suffer too.
06-20-2011, 01:37 PM
#365
I am using a local coating place that Hoss-05 found. It's http://www.cradin.com/index.html
We (Hoss-05 and I) will likely be going with the zirconium coatings even though they are not the prettiest color wise. He does the coatings for Corky Bell's stuff so he is well respected.
For my power levels, the stock injectors seem to be just fine from everything I have read. Hoss-05 got an extra set of stock injectors as well, so once I drop them all off, SARX will have a set of injectors available at all times in case we need them.
We (Hoss-05 and I) will likely be going with the zirconium coatings even though they are not the prettiest color wise. He does the coatings for Corky Bell's stuff so he is well respected.
For my power levels, the stock injectors seem to be just fine from everything I have read. Hoss-05 got an extra set of stock injectors as well, so once I drop them all off, SARX will have a set of injectors available at all times in case we need them.
Regarding the coatings. I PM'd with Hoss-05 a little. I dont know what the purpose of the coating is (barrier or dispersant), so we might have the some or different opinions.
I think some people coat the wrong items or use the wrong type of coating. Barrier VS Disspersant. If you have a Hot pipe in a 200-225 degree underhood enviroment with air movment, why would you want to add a thermal barrier and trap the heat in the pipe? If you use a heat dissipation coating or leave it bare, the air in that pipe will be cooler and therefore you will have lower IAT's. The interooler to engine pipe is easy, you want that coated with a barrier to keep it cool.
Depending on the location and proximity of the hot turbo pipes to other engine components might make a barrier coating the best option, however the best option is to let the pipe disipate heat and use a barrier on those other items instead of the hot pipe.
06-20-2011, 02:02 PM
#366
why would you want to add a thermal barrier and trap the heat in the pipe?
You just getting your intercooler done for now Scott?
06-20-2011, 02:04 PM
#367
coatings will not help on track. the speed of the air going through that pipe at wot is about 120mph! it doesnt spent enough time there to absorb any heat.
Now around town and in traffic--yep it will help with that. If the air temps is strictly coming from boost--then maybe it also will help with that a little.
Now around town and in traffic--yep it will help with that. If the air temps is strictly coming from boost--then maybe it also will help with that a little.
06-20-2011, 02:16 PM
#368
SPOOLN8
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Just got through the first 10 pages so far... I can't believe you haven't even started the install yet 
I plan on running the boost gauge line from my GReddy EBC to my Jet Air Hose just before the TB. I am using the readings from this just to compare between Pre-TB to UIM pressures as my 52mm boost gauge to my UIM is the one that really matters. Any thoughts on the placement of the EBC boost line or would you recomend I tee it into my Turbo outlet where the EBC boost solenoid signal will be coming from? Again the reading on the EBC boost gauge is just for additional information and I do have a mechanical boost gauge mounted in my dash from the UIM.
I also bought at new front 02 sensor as there was no way in hell I was getting my original one out from the exhaust manifold.
You want a new front O2 sensor if for no other reason that they usually seize and gall the threads upon attempted removal from the OE exhaust manifold after that much use. So not only will you likely need an O2 sensor anyway, you won't end up needing to repair the OE exhaust manifold in the process by purchasing and installing a new one with the turbo install.
06-20-2011, 02:18 PM
#369
Different opinions ... neah.. not really. Different train of thought.. yes. The idea was to coat it to keep excess heat out of the engine bay as this was a problem with someone else in the past. I can see your point of view as well I just dont know if the pipe can shed enough heat to make an appreciable difference to the charge temp no matter the coating. You made me look at things from a different point of view and I thank you for that. I will think about this issue some more.
You just getting your intercooler done for now Scott?
You just getting your intercooler done for now Scott?
I might be wrong, but I will atleast make you think.
A smart man doesnt know everything, he just knows when to ask for help.
Last edited by Highway8; 06-20-2011 at 02:32 PM.
06-20-2011, 02:23 PM
#370
coatings will not help on track. the speed of the air going through that pipe at wot is about 120mph! it doesnt spent enough time there to absorb any heat.
Now around town and in traffic--yep it will help with that. If the air temps is strictly coming from boost--then maybe it also will help with that a little.
Now around town and in traffic--yep it will help with that. If the air temps is strictly coming from boost--then maybe it also will help with that a little.
My pipes are all scratched up anyways. I am a function or fashion guy, but if I can make something pretty and maybe improve performance then I will do it. Besides its just money.
06-20-2011, 03:22 PM
#371
I do not know the specification of your setup so I cant comment on why they work for you except maybe Less power/ less air flow or are you running stoc blues in both Secondary and P2, what about p1?
I do know that the Modified yellows flow more then the stock blues. Modified blues would be the highest flowing S1 injector. I am guessing you could get S2 secondary injectors to modify for even higher flow but with my new green s2 injectors in the primary and secondary/p2 both running modified yellows, I will have enough fuel.
I do know that the Modified yellows flow more then the stock blues. Modified blues would be the highest flowing S1 injector. I am guessing you could get S2 secondary injectors to modify for even higher flow but with my new green s2 injectors in the primary and secondary/p2 both running modified yellows, I will have enough fuel.
06-20-2011, 03:32 PM
#372
SPOOLN8
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Check out my build thread for installed pics from a bunch of angles...
Following on from the discussion of the last few days , this is how I would see the progression for hp using the base Greddy kit .
240-260whp - stock greddy turbo with the usual recommended upgrades
280-300 whp - Upgrade the compressor to BNR T04e 50 trim or equivalent . No other major changes required.
330-350 whp - Upgrade the compressor to BNR 60-1 , upgrade the suction piping to 21/2" min the compression piping to the I/C to 21/4" min , upgrade the I/C . Modify the turbo exit for better flow . Fit 3" exhaust . Upgrade fuel pump , injectors , ignition. Do the wastegate mod or upgrade the actuator. Then pray it all hangs together .
240-260whp - stock greddy turbo with the usual recommended upgrades
280-300 whp - Upgrade the compressor to BNR T04e 50 trim or equivalent . No other major changes required.
330-350 whp - Upgrade the compressor to BNR 60-1 , upgrade the suction piping to 21/2" min the compression piping to the I/C to 21/4" min , upgrade the I/C . Modify the turbo exit for better flow . Fit 3" exhaust . Upgrade fuel pump , injectors , ignition. Do the wastegate mod or upgrade the actuator. Then pray it all hangs together .
Great guide Brett....
9K don't take this the wrong way but I feel like for the number you are looking for you are going a bit excessive. The nice thing about this ***** out attitude though is that your are going to have a ton of room to go bigger.... and believe me you are going to eventually want to do that... its an addiction!!
06-20-2011, 03:57 PM
#374
When they get flow tested the bench flow numbers are higher then the actual numbers in the car. It has to do with pulse widths and fuel pressure (I think). However they do give you the pre and post numbers and because they are tested the same way, you can get a % increase off that, do the math and be pretty close the the actual in vehicle numbers. Keeping in mind that under full load the fuel pump (especialy stock) might not be able to maintain proper fuel pressure which results in less fuel flow. Attached is the numbers from the set of injectors I was running. Showed a 100% flow increase 420 to 840. The 420 is 10% high, so subtract 10% from 840 and you have 755 injectors. I think the issue might be that the fuel pressure drops under WOT around 6-8K RPM.
.
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What is important is what happens in the actual environment where you run the injector - not what it flows on the bench .
My own experience is that with blues in the P2 position (the others stock)the engine will start running lean at around the flywheel hp you mentioned or less - hence my comment about you running out of injector.
Last edited by Brettus; 06-20-2011 at 04:02 PM.
06-20-2011, 04:07 PM
#375
I dont know the specs on the RC injectors, but I do not know that aftermarket injectors can create tunning issues, plus I already had 2 full sets of stock injectors. Modifying 2 sets of yellows cost me about $100. The green s2 injectors are the best choice for the primary injectors. They have an improved spray patter and the proper % increase over stock. Dropping in big P2 injectors and not changing p1 and secondary injectors makes tunning more difficult. Not impossible but just more difficult. Driveabilty can suffer too.
I recently tuned a car with 1100cc P2s that only flowed 1/2 that on the stock table .