Something Every RX-8 owner should hear/watch(New Info)
08-07-2006, 01:30 PM
#351
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Originally Posted by RevTo9K
I would say that brake squeal is a problem; brakes suddenly not slowing you down is a catastrophic failure. Brake squeal is a TSB; brakes suddenly not slowing you down is a recall and a stop delivery.
I also think that for those of you worried about the perception of our cars affecting resale value, consider the fact that lots of RX-8's make a funny noise when coming to a stop!
This subject is only relevant to this thread in this sense: Some people seem to think that the action Mazda has taken here is the fault of the consumer, for complaining about things that they shouldn't. I find it hard to believe that we're somehow mystically whinier than owners of other cars. My issue is the response of the manufacturer.
Blaming the customer for overreacting to issues is not a good way for a company to increase market share. I want Mazda, the RX-8, and the rotary to be successful too - I just think Mazda's taking the wrong approach here.
I also think that for those of you worried about the perception of our cars affecting resale value, consider the fact that lots of RX-8's make a funny noise when coming to a stop!
This subject is only relevant to this thread in this sense: Some people seem to think that the action Mazda has taken here is the fault of the consumer, for complaining about things that they shouldn't. I find it hard to believe that we're somehow mystically whinier than owners of other cars. My issue is the response of the manufacturer.
Blaming the customer for overreacting to issues is not a good way for a company to increase market share. I want Mazda, the RX-8, and the rotary to be successful too - I just think Mazda's taking the wrong approach here.
crank pulley failure
transmision failure( some members have gone thru 3 trans before 35000 miles)
axle clicking
motor mounds failure
feathering tires ( need replacement before 9000 miles)
breack squeking
fuel line recall
etc
then I ask why is mazda worse than nissan? In fact most 350z parts are share with other cars rx-8's are not .
I have nothing agains the 350z just using it as an example
Last edited by rotary crazy; 08-07-2006 at 01:44 PM.
08-07-2006, 01:42 PM
#352
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Originally Posted by otherside
I think the thread should be closed. The issue has been addressed by Mazda Corp. Some are satisfied, some are not and never will be. All we can due is hope for the best at this point. Continuing to whine wont solve anything. I understand there is a saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", but now its is just annoying. I wish you guys (and gals) could spend a couple of days behind the desk of a service consultant or manager, it would be enlightening to say the least.
08-07-2006, 01:49 PM
#353
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Originally Posted by otherside
I think the thread should be closed. The issue has been addressed by Mazda Corp. Some are satisfied, some are not and never will be.
All we can due is hope for the best at this point. Continuing to whine wont solve anything.
All we can due is hope for the best at this point. Continuing to whine wont solve anything.
I wish you guys (and gals) could spend a couple of days behind the desk of a service consultant or manager, it would be enlightening to say the least.
By the way, otherside, I appreciate your input and enjoy your posts very much - thanks for spending time around here.
08-07-2006, 03:49 PM
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Autoblog's podcast is here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/07/autoblog-podcast-36/
They discuss the entire issue of the leaked video, as well as their analysis of Mr. Barnes' response.
They also incorrectly identified zoom44 as the poster of the video to Google video. I'm emailing them now about that.
Enjoy, listen, discuss.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/07/autoblog-podcast-36/
They discuss the entire issue of the leaked video, as well as their analysis of Mr. Barnes' response.
They also incorrectly identified zoom44 as the poster of the video to Google video. I'm emailing them now about that.
Enjoy, listen, discuss.
08-07-2006, 04:20 PM
#357
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by RevTo9K
Autoblog's podcast is here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/07/autoblog-podcast-36/
They discuss the entire issue of the leaked video, as well as their analysis of Mr. Barnes' response.
They also incorrectly identified zoom44 as the poster of the video to Google video. I'm emailing them now about that.
Enjoy, listen, discuss.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/07/autoblog-podcast-36/
They discuss the entire issue of the leaked video, as well as their analysis of Mr. Barnes' response.
They also incorrectly identified zoom44 as the poster of the video to Google video. I'm emailing them now about that.
Enjoy, listen, discuss.
It was also interesting to hear their opinions on the RX-8 in general. The described the rotary as being notoriously finicky and commented on the number of problems that result in TSB's as being high. This will probably start the whole "whiny customers" debate again, but I'm just reporting what they said.
08-07-2006, 04:24 PM
#358
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Originally Posted by otherside
I think the thread should be closed. The issue has been addressed by Mazda Corp. Some are satisfied, some are not and never will be. All we can due is hope for the best at this point. Continuing to whine wont solve anything. I understand there is a saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", but now its is just annoying. I wish you guys (and gals) could spend a couple of days behind the desk of a service consultant or manager, it would be enlightening to say the least.
I'm just joking. I'm actually happy to hear that some Mazda dealers do treat their customers with more respect than the ones I've been to. For me, this news doesn't really do much except confirm to me that the dealership near me which was lousy has no incentive to become not lousy. I'm not really afraid of service degrading; I'm just disappointed to know that I probably shouldn't expect service to improve.
08-07-2006, 04:47 PM
#359
While I think that the ire directed at Mazda Operations is valid for emotional reasons, I feel that most of the blame lies with the consumer who believes the automobile is a consumable.
All of this "I'll never buy another Mazda" is hilarious to me. I had to give up after 12 pages or so because my sides hurt. Maybe it was my head? In any event, I am pained by the attitude of that average owner.
When you buy your next car, base your decision on its engineering, not the quality of the dealership or the response of the corporate HQ.
There are plenty of boutique manufacturers that will sell you a car with an additional digit before the decimal point who will mop your brow and fix you herbal tea when you write the check, but try to get it fixed when a large, expensive piece of aluminum falls off and see what happens.
All big auto manufacturers take horrible engineering risks for the sake of profitability. Risks they try to mitigate with a warrantee. Imagine the position Mazda placed themselves in when they designed the RX-8 - a vehicle rife with one-off parts.
Though I know it is difficult to write a check for $30k and accept a mea culpa when parts break, it is unreasonable to expect a device like the RX-8 to live up to the same engineering standard as the Civic with so many risks built in to the design - a design executed with the same level of care as your underwear or a cappucino machine.
Manufacturers want you to belive the car is a consumable so that they can sell them with wild abandon. But, it is not.
Even in this "modrn" era, a complex machine is still that and you are fooling only yourself if you belive otherwise.
Every auto manufacturer has their own "riff" - Honda wants you to believe they are simple, Volvo wants you to believe they are safe, Ford wants you to belive they are tough and Chevy wants you to belive they are the embodiment of the American Way of Life.
In the end, all they care about is seperating you from your money.
Mazda uses "unique" design and an "attitude" to sell to those that perceive themselves as "different". In the end, they, too, just want your cash.
If all this back-room wrangling on the part of a manufacturer insults you, then you are not in a position to purchase a mass-produced vehicle.
Choose your vehicle based on what impresses you about the design, write the check for the full amount and expect to pay that amount several times over again over the life of the vehicle.
That would be the reasonable way to go about the purchase.
I doubt many of you are up to that challenge.
All of this "I'll never buy another Mazda" is hilarious to me. I had to give up after 12 pages or so because my sides hurt. Maybe it was my head? In any event, I am pained by the attitude of that average owner.
When you buy your next car, base your decision on its engineering, not the quality of the dealership or the response of the corporate HQ.
There are plenty of boutique manufacturers that will sell you a car with an additional digit before the decimal point who will mop your brow and fix you herbal tea when you write the check, but try to get it fixed when a large, expensive piece of aluminum falls off and see what happens.
All big auto manufacturers take horrible engineering risks for the sake of profitability. Risks they try to mitigate with a warrantee. Imagine the position Mazda placed themselves in when they designed the RX-8 - a vehicle rife with one-off parts.
Though I know it is difficult to write a check for $30k and accept a mea culpa when parts break, it is unreasonable to expect a device like the RX-8 to live up to the same engineering standard as the Civic with so many risks built in to the design - a design executed with the same level of care as your underwear or a cappucino machine.
Manufacturers want you to belive the car is a consumable so that they can sell them with wild abandon. But, it is not.
Even in this "modrn" era, a complex machine is still that and you are fooling only yourself if you belive otherwise.
Every auto manufacturer has their own "riff" - Honda wants you to believe they are simple, Volvo wants you to believe they are safe, Ford wants you to belive they are tough and Chevy wants you to belive they are the embodiment of the American Way of Life.
In the end, all they care about is seperating you from your money.
Mazda uses "unique" design and an "attitude" to sell to those that perceive themselves as "different". In the end, they, too, just want your cash.
If all this back-room wrangling on the part of a manufacturer insults you, then you are not in a position to purchase a mass-produced vehicle.
Choose your vehicle based on what impresses you about the design, write the check for the full amount and expect to pay that amount several times over again over the life of the vehicle.
That would be the reasonable way to go about the purchase.
I doubt many of you are up to that challenge.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 08-07-2006 at 04:49 PM.
08-07-2006, 05:06 PM
#360
Bummed, but bring on OU!
I'm not buying another Mazda on principle. This is a very shady move by the company, that directly affects marketing and sales. Turns out that this backfired on them, but 99% of Joe public doesn't even know that this discussion exists, so my not buying Mazda is like me not shopping at Walmart(which I don't). It's the principle of it, but has no real effect on the company. I won't do business with companies that pull **** like this.
Now maybe alot of companies do it, and they've managed to hide it successfully. If I find them, I'll stop doing business with them. Eventually, I may end up Amish
.
Now maybe alot of companies do it, and they've managed to hide it successfully. If I find them, I'll stop doing business with them. Eventually, I may end up Amish
.
08-07-2006, 05:32 PM
#361
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
While I think that the ire directed at Mazda Operations is valid for emotional reasons, I feel that most of the blame lies with the consumer who believes the automobile is a consumable.
All of this "I'll never buy another Mazda" is hilarious to me. I had to give up after 12 pages or so because my sides hurt. Maybe it was my head? In any event, I am pained by the attitude of that average owner.
When you buy your next car, base your decision on its engineering, not the quality of the dealership or the response of the corporate HQ.
There are plenty of boutique manufacturers that will sell you a car with an additional digit before the decimal point who will mop your brow and fix you herbal tea when you write the check, but try to get it fixed when a large, expensive piece of aluminum falls off and see what happens.
All big auto manufacturers take horrible engineering risks for the sake of profitability. Risks they try to mitigate with a warrantee. Imagine the position Mazda placed themselves in when they designed the RX-8 - a vehicle rife with one-off parts.
Though I know it is difficult to write a check for $30k and accept a mea culpa when parts break, it is unreasonable to expect a device like the RX-8 to live up to the same engineering standard as the Civic with so many risks built in to the design - a design executed with the same level of care as your underwear or a cappucino machine.
Manufacturers want you to belive the car is a consumable so that they can sell them with wild abandon. But, it is not.
Even in this "modrn" era, a complex machine is still that and you are fooling only yourself if you belive otherwise.
Every auto manufacturer has their own "riff" - Honda wants you to believe they are simple, Volvo wants you to believe they are safe, Ford wants you to belive they are tough and Chevy wants you to belive they are the embodiment of the American Way of Life.
In the end, all they care about is seperating you from your money.
Mazda uses "unique" design and an "attitude" to sell to those that perceive themselves as "different". In the end, they, too, just want your cash.
If all this back-room wrangling on the part of a manufacturer insults you, then you are not in a position to purchase a mass-produced vehicle.
Choose your vehicle based on what impresses you about the design, write the check for the full amount and expect to pay that amount several times over again over the life of the vehicle.
That would be the reasonable way to go about the purchase.
I doubt many of you are up to that challenge.
All of this "I'll never buy another Mazda" is hilarious to me. I had to give up after 12 pages or so because my sides hurt. Maybe it was my head? In any event, I am pained by the attitude of that average owner.
When you buy your next car, base your decision on its engineering, not the quality of the dealership or the response of the corporate HQ.
There are plenty of boutique manufacturers that will sell you a car with an additional digit before the decimal point who will mop your brow and fix you herbal tea when you write the check, but try to get it fixed when a large, expensive piece of aluminum falls off and see what happens.
All big auto manufacturers take horrible engineering risks for the sake of profitability. Risks they try to mitigate with a warrantee. Imagine the position Mazda placed themselves in when they designed the RX-8 - a vehicle rife with one-off parts.
Though I know it is difficult to write a check for $30k and accept a mea culpa when parts break, it is unreasonable to expect a device like the RX-8 to live up to the same engineering standard as the Civic with so many risks built in to the design - a design executed with the same level of care as your underwear or a cappucino machine.
Manufacturers want you to belive the car is a consumable so that they can sell them with wild abandon. But, it is not.
Even in this "modrn" era, a complex machine is still that and you are fooling only yourself if you belive otherwise.
Every auto manufacturer has their own "riff" - Honda wants you to believe they are simple, Volvo wants you to believe they are safe, Ford wants you to belive they are tough and Chevy wants you to belive they are the embodiment of the American Way of Life.
In the end, all they care about is seperating you from your money.
Mazda uses "unique" design and an "attitude" to sell to those that perceive themselves as "different". In the end, they, too, just want your cash.
If all this back-room wrangling on the part of a manufacturer insults you, then you are not in a position to purchase a mass-produced vehicle.
Choose your vehicle based on what impresses you about the design, write the check for the full amount and expect to pay that amount several times over again over the life of the vehicle.
That would be the reasonable way to go about the purchase.
I doubt many of you are up to that challenge.
08-07-2006, 05:39 PM
#362
jersey fresh
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Originally Posted by TALAN7
You're an idiot!
stop trying to cause trouble, adults are talking.
08-07-2006, 05:41 PM
#363
He's as bad as Can
Originally Posted by TALAN7
You're an idiot!
By not responding to MM points with well thought out rebuttals you’re only showing yourself to be a bigger idiot.
08-07-2006, 05:53 PM
#366
Originally Posted by TALAN7
You're an idiot!
Originally Posted by TALAN7
You're right, I apologize and take it back.
A well though out rebuttal like that is priceless and your towering intellect really shines in your response. Please continue!
Originally Posted by TALAN7
When people talk about intangibles they're mostly talking about perceptions.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 08-07-2006 at 06:12 PM.
08-07-2006, 07:19 PM
#367
Registered
Originally Posted by r0tor
have you EVER owned a sports car before?
I have a friend with a E46 M3 and know a couple people with Corvettes and all of their brakes squeal like crazy - especially after hard driving and they glaze over. Aggressive brake pads = tendancy to squeal.
I'd rather have something thats prone to squealing then a car that stops like a squeal free Hinda Accord... maybe your in the wrong kind of car
I have a friend with a E46 M3 and know a couple people with Corvettes and all of their brakes squeal like crazy - especially after hard driving and they glaze over. Aggressive brake pads = tendancy to squeal.
I'd rather have something thats prone to squealing then a car that stops like a squeal free Hinda Accord... maybe your in the wrong kind of car
I tracked down the anesthesiologist today in his on-call room (he wasn't too happy about it, LOL) and asked him if his Ferrari had squealing brakes and explained the debate here about noisy brakes. He kinda laughed and said his car braks squeal like a stuck pig, especially when it's been raining. He said every high-performance car he has owned has had squealing brakes. He said his "practical car" (a Honda Pilot for going up to the mountains) has VERY quiet brakes and also don't grab anywhere near as well.
08-07-2006, 07:32 PM
#368
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Originally Posted by BunnyGirl
I tracked down the anesthesiologist today in his on-call room (he wasn't too happy about it, LOL) and asked him if his Ferrari had squealing brakes and explained the debate here about noisy brakes. He kinda laughed and said his car braks squeal like a stuck pig, especially when it's been raining. He said every high-performance car he has owned has had squealing brakes. He said his "practical car" (a Honda Pilot for going up to the mountains) has VERY quiet brakes and also don't grab anywhere near as well.
08-07-2006, 07:37 PM
#369
RX8 and a Truk....
Anyone else get a reply email?
Dear Darin,
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns regarding Mazda?s
customer satisfaction process. I appreciate how deeply you care about
Mazda and about our vehicles.
As I understand, you learned of a change to Mazda?s CARE survey process
as it relates to RX-8 through a video posted ? without Mazda?s
permission ? on the Internet. Unfortunately, the video, which is only
one of many ongoing and privileged communications between Mazda, our
dealer council and our dealers, does not begin to explain our CARE
process or the fact that customer satisfaction is our number one
priority. In addition, that video is only one portion of the story
behind our CARE survey, and represents only one part of the internal
discussions that have surrounded the survey recently.
Because we consider this situation to be proprietary and confidential
between us and our dealer body, all I can do is assure you that we are
unwavering in our commitment to make owning a Mazda the best possible
experience. To that end, we have not stopped surveying RX-8 owners.
There will be no change in emphasis on the level of service customers
receive at dealers or the frequency of CARE surveys sent out by Mazda,
and we retain our ability to take action if our dealerships do not
deliver the service or satisfaction we expect and demand.
Our philosophy has been, and continues to be, that we will hold our
dealers accountable for situations that are within their control. As
such, Mazda?s goal is to ensure that our dealers provide all customers,
regardless of the vehicle they own, with the highest level of service
and customer satisfaction.
To assume after viewing a video posted on the Internet that Mazda would
do anything to compromise this is simply and unequivocally wrong.
Again, I thank you for bringing your concerns to us and giving us a
chance to respond.
Regards,
Daniel M.
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns regarding Mazda?s
customer satisfaction process. I appreciate how deeply you care about
Mazda and about our vehicles.
As I understand, you learned of a change to Mazda?s CARE survey process
as it relates to RX-8 through a video posted ? without Mazda?s
permission ? on the Internet. Unfortunately, the video, which is only
one of many ongoing and privileged communications between Mazda, our
dealer council and our dealers, does not begin to explain our CARE
process or the fact that customer satisfaction is our number one
priority. In addition, that video is only one portion of the story
behind our CARE survey, and represents only one part of the internal
discussions that have surrounded the survey recently.
Because we consider this situation to be proprietary and confidential
between us and our dealer body, all I can do is assure you that we are
unwavering in our commitment to make owning a Mazda the best possible
experience. To that end, we have not stopped surveying RX-8 owners.
There will be no change in emphasis on the level of service customers
receive at dealers or the frequency of CARE surveys sent out by Mazda,
and we retain our ability to take action if our dealerships do not
deliver the service or satisfaction we expect and demand.
Our philosophy has been, and continues to be, that we will hold our
dealers accountable for situations that are within their control. As
such, Mazda?s goal is to ensure that our dealers provide all customers,
regardless of the vehicle they own, with the highest level of service
and customer satisfaction.
To assume after viewing a video posted on the Internet that Mazda would
do anything to compromise this is simply and unequivocally wrong.
Again, I thank you for bringing your concerns to us and giving us a
chance to respond.
Regards,
Daniel M.
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
08-07-2006, 07:50 PM
#371
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While I didn't get to see the video (it was removed before I saw this thread), I admit that if it indeed says what is reported on here, it doesn't look very good. However, I will reserve judgement on MNAO until such time as I have a major problem with the car and have to get the dealer to resolve it.
If this video hadn't been leaked, I wonder if we would notice any difference in the level of service we have been experiencing(good or bad)? Now that the video is out there, I imagine that I and many others will find any issue, however 'small' it may seem, to be surely a result of this new policy.
At this point, I am fortunate and happy to say that my car has been as reliable as I expected and hoped it to be when I bought it three years ago. 61,000 miles later, I am still happy with it, it still makes me smile when I drive it. I am still proud of it, still keep it clean and shiny. Hopefully, it will give me lots more trouble-free miles.
The rest of my ownership experience will determine whether or not I purchase another Mazda. Whether or not this video is as important as many of us seem to think it is will become evident as time goes on.
If this video hadn't been leaked, I wonder if we would notice any difference in the level of service we have been experiencing(good or bad)? Now that the video is out there, I imagine that I and many others will find any issue, however 'small' it may seem, to be surely a result of this new policy.
At this point, I am fortunate and happy to say that my car has been as reliable as I expected and hoped it to be when I bought it three years ago. 61,000 miles later, I am still happy with it, it still makes me smile when I drive it. I am still proud of it, still keep it clean and shiny. Hopefully, it will give me lots more trouble-free miles.
The rest of my ownership experience will determine whether or not I purchase another Mazda. Whether or not this video is as important as many of us seem to think it is will become evident as time goes on.
08-07-2006, 08:32 PM
#372
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I did get to see the video. At first I was livid. Then just sad that some would look at this as a reason to avoid buying a new RX8. Now, after a few days I've calmed down a bit. I love my car and that's that. I did not buy my car because of a commercial or a nice letter from someone at MNAO. I bought it because the salesman was nuts enough let me test drive it without him. Best lunch break I've ever had! I like working on my own vehicles and now that my warranty is gone (over 53k) I'll just deal with anything I need to on my own and keep on loving my car.
08-07-2006, 09:20 PM
#373
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MazdaManiac, some may have made the complaint, but I don't believe that the majority here does. It hasn't been about a badly made product, but about bad service. one-off parts, corporate engineering shortucts, etc. have nothing to do with this. It's about customer service.
You do all your own wrenching on your car? Just because you like to, or is it because you know more and can do better than the dealer techs (as some members have said)? Since their job is repairing and maintenance work on Mazda vehicles, shouldn't they be expected to have a fair level of competency... if not even have more experience than you? This is both their job and warranty service is part of what Mazda is sellling... it comes with every new car. I don't think it unreasonable to ask that they do better than "so so" or "adequate" at diagnosing and repairing Mazda vehicles. This isn't a high dollar Lexus or BMW... gourmet coffee and bagels aren't necessary, but doing competant work, keeping the customer informed as to what is going on and curtesy will go a long way towards making your customers happy and creating repeat business.
You do all your own wrenching on your car? Just because you like to, or is it because you know more and can do better than the dealer techs (as some members have said)? Since their job is repairing and maintenance work on Mazda vehicles, shouldn't they be expected to have a fair level of competency... if not even have more experience than you? This is both their job and warranty service is part of what Mazda is sellling... it comes with every new car. I don't think it unreasonable to ask that they do better than "so so" or "adequate" at diagnosing and repairing Mazda vehicles. This isn't a high dollar Lexus or BMW... gourmet coffee and bagels aren't necessary, but doing competant work, keeping the customer informed as to what is going on and curtesy will go a long way towards making your customers happy and creating repeat business.