shaunv74

Ouch! Burn...

backroads

Competing with the Corvette may not be a good idea, but what about a low production, expensive, exotic, rotary "halo" car ala the Ford GT? They may take a hit on the car, but it would boost Mazda's brand recognition, bring people into the showrooms, and raise people's confidence in rotary engines.

p.s. it's my first post. hi forum..

shaunv74

Die Noob!! Just kidding.

Welcome to the forum. I think that would be pretty cool. Although I think they'd have to launch a new upper class line like Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura. I don't think people would go for the 80K-100K Mazda just due to brand niche. The Skyline GTR not withstanding. The American guys can get away over here but the Japaneese and Europeans have not been able to ala VW Phaeton.

DemonRX-8

They did almost try that - it was called Amati back in the 90's. I don't think Mazda is big enough o support the "halo" brand like Nissan/Toyota/Honda.

I'm with the people that say there's room for the 8 and a $40-45k 2-seat sports car (whether it's called a 7 or whatever) that goes like stink!

robrecht

Yeah, it would be a great halo car, and it's certainly a good idea to consider, but it's just not Mazda's style (I do remember the Millenia, though). Our best hope is a relatively low-cost 2-seater Kabura with the 16x, alongside the 4-seater RX-8 with the 16x. I would be so thrilled if Mazda had 3 sports cars (w MX-5)--I gave up on this a couple of years ago, but now with the 16x, I'm starting to get almost optimistic again.

Design1stCode2nd

Been a few days but to clarify my points. Every manufacturer wants their cars to be mass market; it means more money which is why they are in business to begin with. Why is the RX8 a 4 door coupe? It’s an attempt to have our cake and eat it too (which I think it does well otherwise why would I have bought it).

Oil level indicator: its the same as gasoline, we have a gas gauge to tell us to add fuel, why not an oil gauge to tell us we need oil?

Weights of other cars I’ve mentioned, the Camaro and Mustang will be heavier of course, I would think under 3,600 lbs however. The 135 is 3,200, BMW lists 75kg for driver and 7kg for luggage as well as 90% full tank and not everyone measures their cars in the same manor.

Unless Mazda makes a dedicated 2 seat rotary I don’t see them hitting 2,600lbs. They could have done this already with a rotary version of the MX-5.

If Mazda keeps the RX8 as a 4 place rotary (which I hope they do), and they want to sell more of them than they have then some changes will need to be made. There can be no risk of flooding in a car. The fact that oil will need to be added already is one strike against it (they can at least make it as easy as possible); not for an enthusiast but from your normal sports/sporty car buying public.

A rotary is completely different from every other engine manufactured today. That makes a lot people worry and a few people intrigued. The automotive public doesn’t go with an unknown they go with tried and true (see Toyota/Honda).

Manufacturers will make niche cars but only when they are off platforms that are in use for other purposes. Changing some body panels and making a few tweaks allows for economy of scale. You don’t build a niche car on a dedicated platform, its cost prohibitive unless you charge large sums of money.

rotarygod

I don't forsee 2600 lbs being hit but I do see 2800 lbs being possible as long as it's a 2 seater. It's not saying 2600 lbs isn't possible. I just don't see it.

If you want NO risk of flooding then you can't put a rotary in it. Period.

zoom44

your forgetting fred that the current MX-5 even in power retractable hard top trim only weighs 2610. it would be quite easy for them to make a true 2 seat hard top coupe come in at that weight on this chassis.

Endgame

[QUOTE=Design1stCode2nd;2090725]
Weights of other cars I’ve mentioned, the Camaro and Mustang will be heavier of course, I would think under 3,600 lbs however. The 135 is 3,200, BMW lists 75kg for driver and 7kg for luggage as well as 90% full tank and not everyone measures their cars in the same manor.QUOTE]

Correction, the 135i will weigh 3440. There have been numerous updates to the original thoughts that it would only weigh 3200.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Thats an awfully small car to have that kind of weight. I thought the current 3-series was in that type of weight class and the whole point of the 1-series was to go back to the smaller, lighter, more tossable car that BMW had when they first came over to the States?

Design1stCode2nd

[QUOTE=Endgame;2090877]As with the price I guess we will see soon enough.

Design1stCode2nd

Wouldn't an electric assist motor be enough to spin out extra fuel?

If Mazda can't remove flooding and having to have your car warmed and run at 3k RPM for X number of seconds then it will forever be a niche car.

When you have to provide specific instruction on how to properly run a car to anyone who uses it or any shop mechanic (average car user doesn't do their own work) then you are going to lose customers.

Keep in mind most anyone on this board would qualify as an enthusiast to one degree or another. Any owner knows the RX8 needs a little extra TLC but if you want to sell alot of something you can't have these caveats.

Now if Mazda was going to do 2-3 more cars off the platform with say a turbo 4, convertible, 2 door coupe, hatch/sportback then sure a niche low volume car wouldn’t be a problem as cost is spread among the models.

rotarygod

Isn't that called a starter?

rotarygod

It's THAT light? Damn! I didn't realize that. That's pretty cool.

Someone call Mitsubishi and make fun of them for building turbo econoboxes that weight 600 lbs more!

PoorCollegeKid

Here's something I found about the 135i. The UK website (www.bmw.co.uk) lists the unladen weight (EU) of the 135i coupe as 1560 kg [3439lbs]. It lists the the maximum permissible weight as 1925 kg [4244lbs], which is 365 kg more than the unladen (EU) weight. However, the maximum payload is listed as 440 kg. If you take 1925 kg, subtract off the 440 kg that BMW says the car can carry, and you end up at 1485 kg [3274lbs]. This is exactly 75 kg less than the listed unladen (EU) weight, as it should be according to EU weight standards. So, I'd say that the 135i is going to weigh around 3300lbs by US curb weight standards (no passengers, driver, or luggage). Still pretty heavy, but lighter than the 3600lb 335i. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

mac11

iTrader: (1)

where did you get the information that made you decide mazda plans on making their rotary cars more than niche cars?

and Mazda said they planned on at least 4 cars off the platform the RX-8 is built on

1) RX-8
2) MX-5

the only question is what is next.

My guess is they do the same as they just did. 1 rotary car and 1 piston car. but thats just a guess.

robrecht

Even cooler is my lightened 93 Miata, which is about 2100 lbs. 6.5 lbs wheels! But still I want a 16x RX-8.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

that would be a wicked machine with a NA renesis with aftermarket management making even 240bhp.

Phil_Hendrie_is_back

Fantastic first post, really! Welcome to the forum.

This is actually a very intriguing suggestion/idea that I'm not sure many of the people on this forum understand.

Such an exotic rotary halo car could be in the $60,000 to $80,000 to $100,000 range. It could change public perception into seeing the rotary engine as something upscale, exotic, and special. If in the more expensive range, Mazda could go 3 rotors. Ads would reference the RX8/new 2010 RX7 and the 787b, reiterating that the rotary is the only engine from a Japanese car company to ever win Lemans.

It could be so limited that it might be sold out or close to sold out from pre-orders alone. It would not need to make money in order for Mazda to benefit.

Floyd

With the new 3 rotor being a 24X instead of the 20B I wonder what kind of numbers we would be talking about even under mild boost

ASH8

I recall reading somewhere (maybe here from Charlie) that the Mazda (Domestic Only) MPV 2006~ is off the RX-8 Platform.

ASH8

Having said that I think the MPV is FWD?

Endgame

Go check out 1addicts.com.; they talk about it heavily there. It will be a 3400 pound + car. That is what lost points on the for me. But, really no one will know until it arrives here and can be tested.

Design1stCode2nd

Then why make a 4ish door 4 seater instead of a staright 2+2 or 2 seater. The RX8 configuration was made to appeal to a broader market and sell more units.

Granted I think Mazda will see anything they put a rotary in as a niche car. It doesn't mean it needs to be if you can work out the kinks.

Design1stCode2nd

Not really, I'm thinking a small hybrid to provide a small amount of low end power as well as spinning fuel out of the engine when it's shut off cold. This would be seperate from the starter in sequence. This could also enable start/stop of the engine when sitting at a light to improve city driving MPG.