Renesis 2
10-09-2007, 10:07 AM
#376
Registered
Thread Starter
Why? Your rotor housings are aluminum. Racing Beat has been making, selling, and racing aluminum housings for years. Many (but not all) of Mazda's race engines over the years were specially cast in aluminum. Aluminum dissipates heat at a faster rate than cast iron does. I just don't see the problem.
10-09-2007, 10:42 AM
#378
Senor Carnegrande
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They haven't done FI on the 8, but maybe that's because the current renesis presents some constraints that they can't overcome. At least not affordably, on a low-volume model. Like the difficulties involved in coming up with low compression rotors for the renesis. With an all-new clean sheet design, those constraints are gone. That doesn't mean they will ever use FI, it just means that there probably won't be some legacy design feature that prevents it.
10-09-2007, 10:44 AM
#379
Administrator
Or maybe the DI injectors are very small to promote fuel atomization at low power levels, and cannot keep up with the fuel demand at higher power levels.
Maybe, at full throttle, the port injectors are used to "dump" a lot of fuel in the chamber, with the DI injectors used to "correct" lean spots.
Just a thought.
Maybe, at full throttle, the port injectors are used to "dump" a lot of fuel in the chamber, with the DI injectors used to "correct" lean spots.
Just a thought.
yes yes yes.
!! the injection is staged! DI (HIGH Pressure) for low loads/cruising. but when you ask it for more power- high load/high rpm - other (normal) injectors come on line to make up for what the DI injector cant do. at least thats a pretty good guess from just a picture
10-09-2007, 10:51 AM
#380
Registered
Now, I have a question for the experts here.
Could someone try to check the photo to see whether the seals are ceramics or not? I mean, is there something, such as the colour of the seals themselves, that can be used to understand whether those depicted are standard metal seals or ceramics?
Could someone try to check the photo to see whether the seals are ceramics or not? I mean, is there something, such as the colour of the seals themselves, that can be used to understand whether those depicted are standard metal seals or ceramics?
10-09-2007, 10:57 AM
#381
Power!!
It's just a drawing so it may not be technically accurate in terms of the apex seals. I suspect they would try to stick with conventional seals for cost reasons. I'm hoping they move from chrome Nitride coating to Cermet with the new Al housings. That may help with some of the oil coverage concerns.
10-09-2007, 11:05 AM
#382
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now, I have a question for the experts here.
Could someone try to check the photo to see whether the seals are ceramics or not? I mean, is there something, such as the colour of the seals themselves, that can be used to understand whether those depicted are standard metal seals or ceramics?
Could someone try to check the photo to see whether the seals are ceramics or not? I mean, is there something, such as the colour of the seals themselves, that can be used to understand whether those depicted are standard metal seals or ceramics?
________
Beautycumm live
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 01:27 PM.
10-09-2007, 11:20 AM
#383
Perhaps it already is:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/pics-2010-rotary-prototype-engine-pics-124177/
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/pics-2010-rotary-prototype-engine-pics-124177/
10-09-2007, 12:18 PM
#384
Registered
Actually, these would be much more useful than titanium connecting rods, even in a not heavily tuned engine.
In fact, as I understand it, ceramic seals can reduce friction while needing less lubricating oil. It means more power, higher efficiency (lower fuel consumption), and lower oil consumption as well.
In my opinion, they are well worth the extra cost.
10-09-2007, 04:16 PM
#386
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Misinformation Director - Evolv Chicago
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, these would be much more useful than titanium connecting rods, even in a not heavily tuned engine.
In fact, as I understand it, ceramic seals can reduce friction while needing less lubricating oil. It means more power, higher efficiency (lower fuel consumption), and lower oil consumption as well.
In my opinion, they are well worth the extra cost.
In fact, as I understand it, ceramic seals can reduce friction while needing less lubricating oil. It means more power, higher efficiency (lower fuel consumption), and lower oil consumption as well.
In my opinion, they are well worth the extra cost.
10-09-2007, 04:21 PM
#387
Power!!
Well Pinapple racing sells 3mm Ceramic Apex seal kits at $2K per rotor. While I'm sure Mazda could get a volume discount you'd probably be tacking on $1.5K just for the apex seals. And we don't have any evidence that the current apex seals are a reliability problem. I'd rather they focus on side seal durability.
10-09-2007, 04:33 PM
#388
Registered
Thread Starter
Just remember that if it costs a car manufacturer $10 more dollars to build, it'll cost you $100 more in purchase price. Ceramic seals can cost up to $1500 a set. No it wouldn't cost them that much but it would still be quite a bit. Making a ceramic seal isn't as quick or easy a process as a standard apex seal.
10-09-2007, 07:13 PM
#389
RX-8 = Japanese MG
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A modestly boosted, MazdaSpeed 16x in a lightweight (2600-2700#) RX could spank the new M3.
Now, if Mazda also makes it as good looking or better than the current 8, they could sell it all day for $45k.
Please remind me again why Mazda wouldn't do this. Aren't they in the business of selling cars? If so, does it not behoove them to sell as many as possible? Wouldn't having the best bang-for-the-buck on the planet help in that regard?
Now, if Mazda also makes it as good looking or better than the current 8, they could sell it all day for $45k.
Please remind me again why Mazda wouldn't do this. Aren't they in the business of selling cars? If so, does it not behoove them to sell as many as possible? Wouldn't having the best bang-for-the-buck on the planet help in that regard?
10-09-2007, 07:49 PM
#390
A Torque-Free Zone
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now, if Mazda also makes it as good looking or better than the current 8, they could sell it all day for $45k.
Please remind me again why Mazda wouldn't do this. Aren't they in the business of selling cars? If so, does it not behoove them to sell as many as possible? Wouldn't having the best bang-for-the-buck on the planet help in that regard?
Please remind me again why Mazda wouldn't do this. Aren't they in the business of selling cars? If so, does it not behoove them to sell as many as possible? Wouldn't having the best bang-for-the-buck on the planet help in that regard?
10-09-2007, 11:29 PM
#392
Registered
Thread Starter
I'll bet it doesn't go far. As long as you keep this priced under $35K, it'll probably work. Under $30K would be best. If you top that, it won't sell well. At least not at first. You don't just come out with a new car and engine, turbo it, price it high and hope it sells. It's got to be out for a while to judge potential sales before you start pulling a Corvette like strategy. This is what happened with the RX-7. If you price it with a Corvette and make it perform like a Corvette, you'll lose all of your sales to Corvette. American cars are king in the U.S.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
10-09-2007, 11:37 PM
#393
always filling [the c]up
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alice, Texas
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll bet it doesn't go far. As long as you keep this priced under $35K, it'll probably work. Under $30K would be best. If you top that, it won't sell well. At least not at first. You don't just come out with a new car and engine, turbo it, price it high and hope it sells. It's got to be out for a while to judge potential sales before you start pulling a Corvette like strategy. This is what happened with the RX-7. If you price it with a Corvette and make it perform like a Corvette, you'll lose all of your sales to Corvette. American cars are king in the U.S.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
10-10-2007, 02:45 AM
#394
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe I arrived late to this thread, but being a nerdy startrek fan... this looks like my version of the USS defiant for the street, open up the rear wheels so I can see them and I am sold on this one, if it came out, I will be at the dealer same day
oh and about the new engine... I certainly hope it can get more torque and not fry coils
oh and about the new engine... I certainly hope it can get more torque and not fry coils
10-10-2007, 09:46 AM
#395
Drive Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Redmond
Posts: 1,670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with the 3rd gen 7 wasn't specifically price/performance. It was a more expensive, higher performance vehicle, with no little brother, so corners were cut to bring the price back down.
Keep building the 8. Now, increase engine production so you can give us second rotary sports car, make it go like stink, and charge us a premium.
I love both my 7 and my 8, but when I'm done paying for the 8, if there's not a proper, mind numbingly quick, 2 seater with a rotary under the hood, I'll be seriously looking at other options, a la Lotus.
Keep building the 8. Now, increase engine production so you can give us second rotary sports car, make it go like stink, and charge us a premium.
I love both my 7 and my 8, but when I'm done paying for the 8, if there's not a proper, mind numbingly quick, 2 seater with a rotary under the hood, I'll be seriously looking at other options, a la Lotus.
10-10-2007, 10:35 AM
#397
One correction please...
I'll bet it doesn't go far. As long as you keep this priced under $35K, it'll probably work. Under $30K would be best. If you top that, it won't sell well. At least not at first. You don't just come out with a new car and engine, turbo it, price it high and hope it sells. It's got to be out for a while to judge potential sales before you start pulling a Corvette like strategy. This is what happened with the RX-7. If you price it with a Corvette and make it perform like a Corvette, you'll lose all of your sales to Corvette. American cars are king in the U.S.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman S and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
The sad truth is that there are only a couple of Japanese cars that could pull that off and one is about to in the Nissan GTR. The other would be the return of the Supra. The rotary is really just a niche cult following type of engine and most people are scared of it. When you put it in something that costs alot, you aren't helping them to appreciate it. This needs to be a car that competes against the 350Z, S2000, and Cayman S and nothing more. Beat them in every way for less money. That's how you'll sell lots of them. Mazda doesn't ever need a supercar. That's what the aftermarket is for.
10-10-2007, 12:13 PM
#399
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
yeah, cus it'll take 2 of your A/T's to equal one of our M/T's. 
