Marklar

What, you can't do heel-and-toe with both feet at the same time?

skeeler

If he races Miatas then he's OK in my book.

M

Rotary Soul

Since we're talking about miatas... this question might make me sound like a noob, but I want to ask dammit. Why haven't they put a rotary in a miata? I mean it's compact enough (the engine that is)... I've heard of tuners putting turboII engines in miatas with no big issues. I mean just strap a renesis into a miata and it'll give serious competition to an elise no? Not to mention it'll help with gas mileage... they have the chassis and the engine already, why not do it? I can't imagine the renesis throwing off the balance of the car too much (i may be totally wrong about this).

so what's the issue? reliability? lack of a market? (i'd buy one...)

Marklar

"Why haven't they put a rotary in a miata?"

Well, that would basically be an RX-7.

Rotary Soul

So... my question still stands. why isn't it happening?

Marklar

I imagine that Mazda will make another 2-seat rotary again at some point, but it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.

One problem is cost. One of the reasons the Miata is so successful is because of the low price. Remember, the FD was a disaster for Mazda, while the 4-banger Miata was (and is) a huge success. Why break what's working?

MattMPS

Right.
But FD it's was an important car in Mazda History (it helped to sell the others models).

Mazda executives (almost here in Europe) have repeatly declared that Mazda needs to move upmarket..not necessary in "Luxury Market" ,tough...

Months ago (as Mazda customer) they send to me a survey with those kind of question on it.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

A N/A Miata would be like a convertible FB and nothing wrong with that! Or they could have a little coupe or sedan like the RX2/RX3/RX4

skeeler

I think, as Marklar said, cost is a big factor. The Miata was conceived as an inexpensive car, and it has remained so for 2 decades. Meanwhile, Mazda thinks of the rotary as it's flagship or premium engine. I don't know Mazda's costs, but I can't imagine that the Renesis, being hand assembled, is a cheap to make as the 2.0 MZR in the NC.

I think if Mazda wanted to drop a rotary into the MX-5 chassis, to create an RX-5 or RX-7, they'd feel compelled to make other changes to distinguish the car from the MX-5. I imagine that it would probably be a coupe/hatchback, and they'd want to change the styling. They might also want to put a more extensive aero undertray on the car, which I would like to see regardless of the powerplant. Oh, and of course they'd add little rotor-shaped widgets all over the car. All of these changes would drive up costs. The margin on each car would be small, and the total volume would be small, too, so the total profit would be small.

At least, that's my guess.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Just saying it has not always been that way for Mazda. They have put the rotary engine in a convertible, 2 seater, coupe, sedan, wagon and truck. What body style is left? They way I see it there is a diverse history with how Mazda uses the rotary engine and would not be surprised to see them put it in any other model type. I'm not sure why anyone would want to limit how the engine is used

zoom44

thats actually a road/ test track

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Really? I see the track inside the yellow outline.

Marklar

I don't think anyone does, at least not here. I'd love to see rotary engines across the Mazda line.

The problem is that Mazda has to make money to survive, and the fact is that they can make a lot more money by building piston cars. For the most part, rotaries just aren't money makers, as much as I'd love for that not to be the case.

zoom44

"A" not "the" there is the track that was a race track, plus the one through the forest. there is more than one test track/road there including big giant skid pad and one of those bumpy suspension testing runs etc etc.

delhi

One offs don't count. A convertible RX-7 <> a convertible MX-5 car. the MX5 is created right from the get go as a cheap drop top roadster. While the rx-7 convertible is a variant of the rx-7 coupe. History has shown that rotary is best used in a sports car owned by real enthusiasts then a mass marketed family sedan/wagon what have you. Due to the obvious attention a rotary engine requires that a typical person would complain.
As a trend, look at BMW removing dip sticks and make it even more Fisher-Price for its buyers. They are selling very well. People want maintenance free cars. Cars that require little attention is appealing to the general masses. Hence the Rotary car like the RX-series will only be appreciated by enthusiasts that don't mind rolling up their sleeves to check oil level, coolant level, brake fluid level etc.
Mark my words, there will be a day when the gauge pod will be replaced with a multi-functional entertainment interface.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Do not forget the cosmo vert

The rx2 and rx3 were coupes that did well on the race track! Both are still sought after due to their history and or swapping in a 13b into a small light car!

Icemark

well actually the NA Miata was conceived with a updated Fuel injected 10A and later a fuel injected 12A in it. There was even a single page Road and Track or Car and Driver article about it (I don't remember which... it was back in early 87 as I recall)

But when production time came around the first media versions of the Miata showed up with the DOHC inline 4 cyl.

And again cost was the issue. I have been told (rounded up numbers) $8000 to build a rotary long block (when tooling, parts and assembly are all considered), but only $2-3000 for DOHC a inline 4 cyl.

robrecht

Interesting about the early rotary Miata, Icemark!

m477

Regarding making the rotary engine higher production, Mazda is in a bit of a difficult spot here.

As was mentioned in earlier posts, the rotary is currently hand-built in small numbers in a small facility. In order for them to expand into a truly mass-production model, they would have to build a whole new factory, new tooling, develop new production processes, etc. This would be a significant investment for Mazda, totaling in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Unless they are absolutely certain to sell several orders of magnitude more rotaries than currently, the financial losses from this would destroy the future of the rotary and likely bankrupt Mazda itself.

On the other hand, they could just switch over to the 16X with minimal changes to the production line, and only require relatively low sales for the rotary to remain profitable. Since the price per unit is obviously higher this way, it is imperative to keep the weight of the cars down as much as possible in order for the completed product to compete in the marketplace. Meaning that a new RX-7 would cost about the same as the 370Z, but while it obviously won't have as much power/torque but could still get comparable straight-line speed and better handling if it the weight is much lower.

Spin9k

I like that "Fisher-Price" cars... I have a neighbor who has a 5 series. One day his battery went dead and me and another guy went over to help. HE COULDN'T FIND HIS BATTERY! BMW apparently 'hides' the battery so it's not visable to the casual observer.

Once we helped him locate it, he wouldn't let us jump it because he wasn't sure ... about something ... he didn't understand + and - on the battery...and was afraid we'd blow his BMW up! He called AAA lol...

Scariest thing is he a manager at a technology company...but he doesn't know a + from a - on a battery or even understand what they mean ....

Icemark

all BMW's have an underhood jumper spot for just that issue. The owner's manual is your freind.

MattMPS

In some BMW battery it's under rear seats or under rear trunk.

Icemark

but there still will be an underhood jumper connection

ferrocene

My 18 yr old Audi had the battery under the rear seat with a battery post under the hood.

It was still nose-heavy as hell though.

ASH8

None of this is news really...only about the tranny...the RX-9 thing was talked about 18 months ago or more.

Then the RX-7!!, what about a Cosmo?, heard it all before...boring!

Mazda are waiting to see what happens in the US and their economy..for any signs of improvement..and it still looks bad.

You all have to remember that Japan is now officially in a DEPRESSION, which includes a recession...Mazda will not be making any moves that exposes themselves to financial loss.

It just won't happen unless the world and US economy improves..