alfy28

mazda should do what Nissan does ,(especialy in japan) they can have 2 rotarys.
Look at nissan they have
20k car -S14 (discontinued)
30k car- z
40k+ - GTR.

and that is what mazda needs. they need a entry lvl rotary rwd and above entry lvl rotary rwd ccar . instead of only depending on ppl who can afford 30k+ car . they need to grab the 20 year old crowds also. which would be perfect for the entry lvl rotary rwd car. mazda needs the young to upgrade to the 30k+ car , instead of waiting for them to get out of college and hoping they buy the 30k car.. but that is what i think mazda should do.

Potentiated

Ok that German company is called Hansa and the owner of the car's forum name is elisemk1. The thread has been bumped and I've asked him how much his car weighs and what MPG he's getting. This information should help us out in this thread.

Chibana

This is all very interesting. I've been dying to hear more about the 16x and the upcoming car(s) that will use it. I'm hoping to order an R3 in a few months, so sooner is better. I think that the new car(s) will be too late for me, anyway. I need to get my toy in the next year or so to fit into my car replacement plans. I like the seating arrangement of the RX-8, anyway, so it may just be the best choice for me if they do a 2-seat RX-7 and a 4-seat RX-9. I'm also nervous about the style/design. I've been in hot, raging love with the looks of the RX-8 since day one. I would hate to wait it out for a new RX-7 only to find I don't like the looks much.

skeeler

The business case for 2 rotary-powered cars is a hard sell, but not an impossible one. I think the only way it can work is if the 2 RX cars (a) are as mechanically similar to each other---and to the ND MX-5 Miata---as possible, to reduce costs, but (b) are as functionally different as possible, to broaden the customer base and not cannibalize sales.

For (b), I mean the cars would be in different categories. The '7 should be a 2-seat sports car, in hard-top-only form.* The '9 would either be an RX-8-style 4-door, 4-seat "coupe" or a 4-seat sedan with 4 regular doors. I'm imagining something like the 350Z and G35 sedan, but if the Z had the bodywork of the G37 couple (or if the G37 coupe only had 2 seats). This way, you attract both people shopping for a 2-seater and those considering a sedan, but sales of one model wouldn't significantly cannibalize sales of the other.

For (a), I mean the cars should maximize the number of common parts. Everything from the front license-plate holder to the back of the front seats should be the same: all the front bodywork, the front suspension, the engine, cooling system, A/C, dashboard, steering systme, and front seats. In addition, all 4 wheels, the rear axle and its suspension, and the taillights should be the same. Only the read doors, roof, driveshaft, and rear bodywork would have to be different. The chassis of the '9 should be a stretched version of the'7s chassis, which should be an enlarged version of the MX-5's. Speaking of the MX-5, a lot of the internal parts of the '7 and '9 could be used in the Miata, as well.

Of course, all of this would only work if the 16X offers the increased power, torque, and efficiency it promises. And probably only if the weight of the '9 could be kept below about 2850 lb for a 4-door "coupe" or 2950 lb for a sedan.

Michael

* To distinguish it from the MX-5, which would only be available as soft-top and hard-top convertibles.

DailyDriver2k5

This is great news! Keeping the 8 so now if the 7 seems as promising as Mazda says it will be, I'll just pick up that and hold off from getting another car next year.

2600 lbs and change with 270HP sounds like a very , very fast car.
People are not happy that its not going to be 300HP.Just think if our rotaries had a solid 38HP more and didn't weigh a pound more, our cars would be a serious track car with its already razor sharp handeling.

And these cars suppose to weigh less, good GOD , where do I sign up!?

RXPLODE

i think they should keep the 8 how it is, sporty with nice features. however the 7 should be a raw sports car, 2 seater with as much reliable power they can get from the 16x.

i dont really see a spot for the 9 tho, it would be too hard to market. it wouldnt fit into the RX family if it had 4 doors or was a sedan. i know if i had a sedan i wouldnt want to keep checking the oil after every other fill up. the 9 would overlap with the 8 in terms of features, how many new features can you come up with to justify a whole new car?

7 for enthusiast, 8 for a more family oriented ride. no room for a 9 in the line up.

lucifuge

1. A easy solution to produce a lighter car is simply removing the rear seating, so I would expect a two-seater far more likely than not.

2.*If* the new variant car is more powerful and more economical, then the value of the Rx8 will almost certainly take a hit.

3. Sales of the Rx8 are way too low for Mazda to consider having an Rx7 AND Rx9 simultaneously, it's poor economics.

skeeler

In the article under discussion, the RX-9 is described as a replacement for the RX-8, not an addition to the line-up.

JRichter

Any rotary car news is exiting to me and it turns my Mazda enthusiasm **** up a few notches to see some press but I only see one new rotary car coming initially when taking the current economic situation into consideration. If this is the case just give me the RX-7 replacement with 2 seats, small sexy body style, power/weight ratio to rival the competition, $30K price tag, conventional 6sp and I'm good to go. When times are good and latest rotary engine perfected, I could see a case for multiple rotary cars in the line-up but probably not anytime soon. This sounds like planning/thinking that was going on maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Either way, I'm still excited to see anything.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

rx 8 without the doors and no back seats +hatchback (new design of course) and then a lot of components could be shared.
a low boost supercharged version(seems to be the way folks are going).
Just think if you could buy a new R3 with a factory s.c. laying down around 300 to the wheels AND the torque of the 16X---would you buy it----you damn right I would.
They would fly off the floor.
olddragger

robrecht

That's certainly true for me as well at this point in my life with two little buddyboys. But I have no illusions about how much better the rotary would be showcased in its ideal format. Personally, I'm just hoping that there will be one last true RX-7 for me to buy once my kids are in college and before the ultimate demise of the ICE.

JRichter

Even if an all new car (7, 8, or 9) isn't ready yet for some time it would be nice to see Mazda drop the 16x in the current 8 before it's replaced or axed.

robrecht

But is it ready? There was a rumor floating around here last summer that the engine wasn't perorming well in hot climate testing. And if it is ready for prime time, I doubt the retooling expense could ever be justified for the current poor sales of the 8. Would sales pick up enough?

JRichter

I'm curious how far along anything is. Mazda is so tight lipped. I'm sure there's still some development/refinement work to do and I don't see Mazda taking a chance with new engine until it performs exactly how they want it to. True, it wouldn't be worth rushing to retool/certify/emissions test just to squeeze it in for 1 or 2 years at the end of the 8's product cycle - just wishful thinking, lol. I'm curious how the public would react if say the 2011 RX-8 had a finished version of 16x and a significant bump in power and efficiency before an all new car launched. That would be interesting and who knows what would happen w/ sales.

CyberPitz

The only thing that would scare me there is something happening like the FD3S. Extreme heating issues mixed with problems here and there made the car pretty unreliable. They ended up axing the car over here in the US. I wouldn't want the 16x to hit the same failures...

Then again, if they are 100% complete with it......GIMME GIMME

Design1stCode2nd

I don’t think you’ll see FI on any rotary in the near future; more likely a mild hybrid system for additional torque off the line.

I just don’t see the need of 2 rotary cars in the lineup. Why put a rotary in a four door sedan when a turbo 4/6 or NA 6 would do. Plus they have a 4 door sedans already in small and medium sizes.

Just put the 16x in the RX8 and offer the Miata as a MX5 or RX5. You already have a small lightweight 2 seat platform why make another? Now if you go mid-engine then that’s different. Or if you want to go Lotus and be sub 2,000 or 2,100lbs as a hard core sports car then fine too.

If they want to expand their line-up better to make a large car perhaps like the VW CC but sportier.

delhi

Rotary engine in a body but a sports car segment = instant FAIL. Regular sedan owners are not the enthusiast type despite the many Camryforum.org or Jettaunited.com or AccordtypeJDM.com...
You've seen it yourself on this forum and other 'enthusiast' forums where people would criticise the need the chore of checking and topping engine oil! Good Lord! Does anyone check tire pressure anymore oh wait... TPMS. I even check the coolant, brake/clutch, power steering and windshield washer fluid. So anything but a sports car will spell DOOM for the gasoline rotary engine.

RufusVonStorm

RX-9 will be:

3,152lbs base with integrated iPod adapter
270hp 16X 2-rotor naturally aspirated: 215rwhp, 220whp with full bolt-ons
Saturn freestyle on passenger side only, hatch with latches that break
Sun visors will break at 5k
16mpg no matter how you drive it
8,000rpm redline, ignition system has enough spark until 7,000rpm

And yes I will still buy one

Rx-7 will be released in 3rd quarter 2018 in Japan as hydrogen only

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

[f they dont up the power the rx 8 is dead.
olddragger

77mjd

...and gas mileage.

rotarygod

If it's over 3000 lbs, it's going to be too heavy. Mazda has pledged to lose at least 200 lbs to the next generation of cars.

If it does 270hp, it'll be about 230-235 at the wheels. That's about all you lose.

If it's 20% more efficient than the current engine which is a goal, it should do 20/30 mpg assuming you guys can keep your foot out of it! I can get 21 mpg in an RX-7 that should only be getting 18.

Hydrogen would be a huge money waster, poor performer and an overall waste of time and effort when hydrogen isn't a fuel of the future anyways.

zoom44

except RG is wrong about H

Rotary Soul

lol man gotta love how consistent these arguments are. We should make a drinking game for whenever RG hates on hydrogen, and whenever someone responds with a pro-hydrogen message and a smiley face.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that Mazda will work their *** off on weight reduction because it's one surefire way they can up the performance to keep up with the other car manufacturers. 16x will help out in the power department, but it will still be lower than the pistons of the future, so mazda will make their move with the chassis (like they've always done).

You know, I used to get all butt hurt when ppl told me how rx8s are falling behind, how it doesn't have power, and how rotaries are dead... but after actually racing the **** talkers (well, at least at go karts... not at the track), I realized that most of those ppl can't drive worth crap. How do they expect to push a 330+ hp car to its limit if they can't handle a frickin kart? Most ppl don't even go to the track... they'll never get near pulling out the full potential from their cars.

That being said... maybe i should strap a SC to my 8... if only it didn't cost so much...

rotarygod

Time to take a drink!

Hydrogen isn't the future. Electricity is. Hydrogen would be nothing more than an interim fuel but it wouldn't make sense. Why? It's less efficient by a longshot and gasoline which we all know works perfectly fine will easily last us the short time until electrics take over. Using hydrogen in a fuel cell as a sort of battery decreases total efficiency even more than just straight injecting it so that too isn't going to go anywhere. We'll see photovoltaic car skins, power generating shocks, and lighter weight materials go a long way to making an electric car have a usable range for daily driving. Not to mention the fact that they are very simple. Battery technology improves everyday. I'd love too see what they come up with 25 years from now. For the rest, a small series range extender will take care of things. Hydrogen just doesn't fit into that mix anywhere yet this is absolutely the way cars will ultimately be in the not to distant future. Gasoline and diesel are going to tide us over just fine until then.

I don't think it's going to be long until we see more and more hybrid sports cars starting to appear which is the first step in seeing pure electric sports cars. The Tesla is the first but they've got to stay in business before we worry about seeing more of them. Imagine an electric RX with a rotary as nothing more than a range extender. I don't think that's too far fetched of a possibility in the future. Prices on the technology will have to come down but that will happen with time. Just look what happened to DVD players and TV's over the past 10 years! Enjoy the technology we have right now and what it looks like. In 50 years our current cars will be ancient, antiquated technology that still relied on prehistoric internal combustion. School kids everywhere will laugh about our current cars! Every neat new car you see is just one closer to the end of them as we currently know them.

robrecht

Hi, rg. Do you agree with those who say a rotary ICE (don't want to say RICE) can be more efficient as a generator than a piston ICE when both are running at their sweet spot? I've also heard both sides about the eventual efficiency of on-board microturbine generators as range extenders. Thanks!