Edmunds IL News on Next RX7 and RX9
03-30-2009, 04:40 PM
#251
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My hope isn't that a new RX-7 arrives. My hope is that when it does, we won't have any crybabies complaining about what it's not. I'll tell you right now that there will still be a more powerful car in it's catagory, that it still won't get a catagory best in fuel economy, even if it is improved, and it may not even be the cheapest in it's catagory. What it will be though is fun and balanced which is what Mazda is good at. So here's hoping we see one and that people won't cry about it when we get it.
Sorta like the FC... when it came out and people said, great, but we would like 175-200 HP... then Mazda gives them that with the Turbo.. then they bitch and say they want 250 HP, and Mazda gives them the FD with 255HP... and they don't buy it.
Instead they buy the 112-120 HP Miata.
So they all will bitch and cry.
BTW: heard this weekend from a source inside Mazda North America. ND Miata is due as a 2012 model year, meaning the RX-8 replacement (be it a RX-8 or RX-9) will be here around that same time. The ND Miata is supposed to be closer in size to the NA and 200 lbs lighter. I suspect the FF (or SF in japan) will be the same way.
03-30-2009, 04:48 PM
#252
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BTW: heard this weekend from a source inside Mazda North America. ND Miata is due as a 2012 model year, meaning the RX-8 replacement (be it a RX-8 or RX-9) will be here around that same time. The ND Miata is supposed to be closer in size to the NA and 200 lbs lighter. I suspect the FF (or SF in japan) will be the same way.
The next FF will be an RX-9
Maybe
03-30-2009, 04:50 PM
#253
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03-30-2009, 05:30 PM
#254
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Where do you get these numbers? Do you seriously believe that the back seat area amounts to 400lbs of the car's weight? That seems way off. It's a little sheet metal (some aluminum) with some foam seats inside. I would guess one or the other of those numbers (say 176lbs) would be closer to the actual weight saved, but not both added together 
Last edited by robrecht; 03-31-2009 at 06:51 PM.
03-30-2009, 06:08 PM
#255
Momentum Keeps Me Going
03-30-2009, 06:27 PM
#256
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Keep in mind that IF we see another RX-7 (or any other new rotary car for that matter), people are still going to complain that it's slower than the competition, doesn't make enough power, and isn't the cheapest option out there. It doesn't matter if the engine makes 300 hp, people will complain that it doesn't make 400. It doesn't matter if the engine gets 25 mpg. People will complain that it doesn't do 30 mpg. Think this won't happen? Take a look at the RX-8! It outhandles every generation of RX-7! It makes over 50 hp more than the last naturally aspirated RX-7. Don't compare it to a turbo engine. You can turbocharge a dog turd and make it fast. Take a look at an Evo or WRX if you don't believe me. Even though the RX-8 weighs more than every RX-7 and has a far more useless rear end ratio, it still gets comparable mileage to the RX-7's which means it is more efficient. It does this with less emissions too.
My hope isn't that a new RX-7 arrives. My hope is that when it does, we won't have any crybabies complaining about what it's not. I'll tell you right now that there will still be a more powerful car in it's catagory, that it still won't get a catagory best in fuel economy, even if it is improved, and it may not even be the cheapest in it's catagory. What it will be though is fun and balanced which is what Mazda is good at. So here's hoping we see one and that people won't cry about it when we get it.
My hope isn't that a new RX-7 arrives. My hope is that when it does, we won't have any crybabies complaining about what it's not. I'll tell you right now that there will still be a more powerful car in it's catagory, that it still won't get a catagory best in fuel economy, even if it is improved, and it may not even be the cheapest in it's catagory. What it will be though is fun and balanced which is what Mazda is good at. So here's hoping we see one and that people won't cry about it when we get it.
Most people don't get that there is much engineering involved to improve the engine over the last generation, especially giving it 60 +hp!! Not to mention it revs even higher with a safer exhaust pipe
Now 350z owners are saying that the 370z sucks and that it's not even worth buying... WTF. Honestly I would take a 370z over the ugly looking 350z any day.
Just can't stand how some people just don't get the little improvements that make a great car an even better one, all they do is get their hopes up and overhype everything, then drive it and say it's worse than their own car, but in reality they are just stuck in their own little world. That's why many rx-7 owners were trash talking this car on how it's worse. Some just need to understand that other people have different needs, not everyone is narrow minded.
Ugh, end of small rant.
03-30-2009, 07:03 PM
#257
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Seriously, What he said. Many people are complaining saying it's not as fast and bla bla blah... What they don't get is that the Rx-8 is oh so much more reliable than the predecessor. For god sakes, look at how many people complained when the 350z was not as fast as a 300zx (hint hint, 300zx vs 350z on youtube).
Most people don't get that there is much engineering involved to improve the engine over the last generation, especially giving it 60 +hp!! Not to mention it revs even higher with a safer exhaust pipe
Now 350z owners are saying that the 370z sucks and that it's not even worth buying... WTF. Honestly I would take a 370z over the ugly looking 350z any day.
Just can't stand how some people just don't get the little improvements that make a great car an even better one, all they do is get their hopes up and overhype everything, then drive it and say it's worse than their own car, but in reality they are just stuck in their own little world. That's why many rx-7 owners were trash talking this car on how it's worse. Some just need to understand that other people have different needs, not everyone is narrow minded.
Ugh, end of small rant.
Most people don't get that there is much engineering involved to improve the engine over the last generation, especially giving it 60 +hp!! Not to mention it revs even higher with a safer exhaust pipe
Now 350z owners are saying that the 370z sucks and that it's not even worth buying... WTF. Honestly I would take a 370z over the ugly looking 350z any day.
Just can't stand how some people just don't get the little improvements that make a great car an even better one, all they do is get their hopes up and overhype everything, then drive it and say it's worse than their own car, but in reality they are just stuck in their own little world. That's why many rx-7 owners were trash talking this car on how it's worse. Some just need to understand that other people have different needs, not everyone is narrow minded.
Ugh, end of small rant.
03-30-2009, 09:16 PM
#258
Huge hole is huge
TBH, the RX-8 is exactly where I want in a car. Any faster is just too fast for my needs. Now, I've yet to track my car, so I don't have the need for speed *Hehe, puns...* yet. But when the new Rotary comes out, I am definitely not going to say, "I don't want that" because, hell...I'm a rotary fanboy, and the engine will just be THAT much better. I love being with Mazda with each and every leap and bound they make with this engine.
03-31-2009, 06:47 PM
#259
Grand Chancellor
You have to take peoples complaints with a grain of salt. Its human nature to not like change and at the same time once you have something, you always want something better/more. So if the new rotary comes with 275hp, it wont be long before people are complaining its not enough. Secondly, people with 350s love their cars and will not want to admit the 370 is better performance-wise in pretty much every way.
Then they are in denial because I just sampled the 370Z and I can tell you the overall experience is a step up from the old Z both in performance and aesthetics. The interior does look cheap. Wish it had back seats.
05-05-2009, 10:01 PM
#260
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Its now May and there is still no news on the 2010 RX-8? They had the official announcement of the 2009 RX-8 back in Jan of 08.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 03:11 PM.
05-05-2009, 11:05 PM
#261
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/\ I somehow think we won't see a 2010 RX-8 when you consider the inventories around the world including the US.
05-07-2009, 08:53 AM
#262
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I would say we won't hear much about a 2010 RX-8 until the fall, or so.
When is the Frankfurt Auto Show, Fall? Maybe then.
Very quiet on the future rotary engined Mazda car?!
Just the other day I read that Nissan is considering coming out with a Hybrid version of their Z's for the Tokyo Motor Show.
Would a Hybrid Rotary be in the cards for Mazda?
When is the Frankfurt Auto Show, Fall? Maybe then.
Very quiet on the future rotary engined Mazda car?!
Just the other day I read that Nissan is considering coming out with a Hybrid version of their Z's for the Tokyo Motor Show.
Would a Hybrid Rotary be in the cards for Mazda?
05-07-2009, 01:21 PM
#263
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I would say we won't hear much about a 2010 RX-8 until the fall, or so.
When is the Frankfurt Auto Show, Fall? Maybe then.
Very quiet on the future rotary engined Mazda car?!
Just the other day I read that Nissan is considering coming out with a Hybrid version of their Z's for the Tokyo Motor Show.
Would a Hybrid Rotary be in the cards for Mazda?
When is the Frankfurt Auto Show, Fall? Maybe then.
Very quiet on the future rotary engined Mazda car?!
Just the other day I read that Nissan is considering coming out with a Hybrid version of their Z's for the Tokyo Motor Show.
Would a Hybrid Rotary be in the cards for Mazda?
Wheather or not there is a 2010 RX-8 is pretty moot at this point. If it doesn't have a 16x in it I don't think anyone on here would care if there is one or not. Pretty much everyone who wants an rx-8 already has one and with the changes made for MY 2009, what else is there to change for 2010?
If the 16x is good to go and a future car to put it in is not, perhaps they could put it in the R3 only and charge 1-2k more for it.
05-07-2009, 02:00 PM
#264
I asked a mazda rep this at the NY auto show. He seemed very knowledgeable but still said it's still undecided. (so that mean's it's a few years out...) We talked a lot about market segments and all that stuff: basically even though there is a very dedicated rotary-sports-car fan base, that base is not big enough to cater strictly to them regarding what we want to see in the car. There definitely WILL be a next rotary sports car with the 16x, but if it's liek the old 7 or more like the current 8 is undecided, and will be determined not by what the guys on this board want, but rather by what the market can support.
05-07-2009, 02:34 PM
#265
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TBH. I think 16 X should be an option in their Line up.
Since the Renny Mates to the MX-5 Box oh so well now, I'd be willing to bet that Mazda could sell even more Miata's (unnecessary lol, but always good). and Even More RX's
16x Miata. Badge MX-5-R (Heck, they could even bring the already in production Miata Coupe over here, make crazy cash on an already produced car.
16 x RX (?) -R
Just make the 4 Piston from the Miata the standard (Turbo on the RX or Both), and have the Rotary be an option for both.
The only qualm I have is RX Badges have always meant Rotary, but traditions must, and always do change my friend.
Note: This topic from me is to see Mazda make more money, and with Rotaries in more cars, more on the road R&D can be done
ex. how often they break down? ,under what circumstances?, whats the gas mileage like in a lighter car?, things of that nature.
Since the Renny Mates to the MX-5 Box oh so well now, I'd be willing to bet that Mazda could sell even more Miata's (unnecessary lol, but always good). and Even More RX's
16x Miata. Badge MX-5-R (Heck, they could even bring the already in production Miata Coupe over here, make crazy cash on an already produced car.
16 x RX (?) -R
Just make the 4 Piston from the Miata the standard (Turbo on the RX or Both), and have the Rotary be an option for both.
The only qualm I have is RX Badges have always meant Rotary, but traditions must, and always do change my friend.
Note: This topic from me is to see Mazda make more money, and with Rotaries in more cars, more on the road R&D can be done
ex. how often they break down? ,under what circumstances?, whats the gas mileage like in a lighter car?, things of that nature.
Last edited by Symbioticgenius; 05-07-2009 at 02:37 PM.
05-07-2009, 05:23 PM
#266
Momentum Keeps Me Going
I asked a mazda rep this at the NY auto show. He seemed very knowledgeable but still said it's still undecided. (so that mean's it's a few years out...) We talked a lot about market segments and all that stuff: basically even though there is a very dedicated rotary-sports-car fan base, that base is not big enough to cater strictly to them regarding what we want to see in the car. There definitely WILL be a next rotary sports car with the 16x, but if it's liek the old 7 or more like the current 8 is undecided, and will be determined not by what the guys on this board want, but rather by what the market can support.
They could simply easily double or triple the year over year sales figures by placing the 16X in THE CURRENT CAR!!!! Have they no brain cells at all???? The manufacturing costs would be nearly the same, and the current owners would be ecstatic and trade in droves! We really don't need , but of course would appreciate a new car, but just give us the freaking 16X motor! It's like we're talking to a bunch of brain dead idiots who sort pencils rather than want to sell cars....I mean really it's not that hard....FCS get a bit more power into the car.... it IS really that simple!
Money in hand...no car to spend it on.... WTF Mazda?
Last edited by Spin9k; 05-07-2009 at 05:25 PM.
05-07-2009, 05:33 PM
#267
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They could simply easily double or triple the year over year sales figures by placing the 16X in THE CURRENT CAR!!!! Have they no brain cells at all???? The manufacturing costs would be nearly the same, and the current owners would be ecstatic and trade in droves! We really don't need , but of course would appreciate a new car, but just give us the freaking 16X motor! It's like we're talking to a bunch of brain dead idiots who sort pencils rather than want to sell cars....
05-07-2009, 08:35 PM
#268
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Mazda "should" realize by now, that for the most part we ARE a fair representation of "the market". If they don't satisfy us, who in hell's name are they out to satisfy? They don't market the car, they don't advertise the car, who else is their market?
They could simply easily double or triple the year over year sales figures by placing the 16X in THE CURRENT CAR!!!! Have they no brain cells at all???? The manufacturing costs would be nearly the same, and the current owners would be ecstatic and trade in droves! We really don't need , but of course would appreciate a new car, but just give us the freaking 16X motor! It's like we're talking to a bunch of brain dead idiots who sort pencils rather than want to sell cars....I mean really it's not that hard....FCS get a bit more power into the car.... it IS really that simple!
Money in hand...no car to spend it on.... WTF Mazda?
They could simply easily double or triple the year over year sales figures by placing the 16X in THE CURRENT CAR!!!! Have they no brain cells at all???? The manufacturing costs would be nearly the same, and the current owners would be ecstatic and trade in droves! We really don't need , but of course would appreciate a new car, but just give us the freaking 16X motor! It's like we're talking to a bunch of brain dead idiots who sort pencils rather than want to sell cars....I mean really it's not that hard....FCS get a bit more power into the car.... it IS really that simple!
Money in hand...no car to spend it on.... WTF Mazda?
I have cash in hand and am ready for another car too. Was almost ready to pull the trigger on an R3, but I have decided to wait for news on the next rotary car before I buy anything. Like you said, something as simple as dropping the 16X into the current car would be fine by me. I'd buy one in a second. Give the car the boost in power it needs and i'd be happy. I don't necessarily need a new design or a hardcore 2-seater.
05-07-2009, 10:04 PM
#269
Super Moderator
I agree with Robrecht, who says the 16X is ready for production?, the last I heard Mazda still had issues with the Fuel Delivery system, that being Direct Injection, far different to the present RENESIS and definitely NOT the same set up as DI used in a Banger Engine.
18 months or so I had it from good authority here in Australia that Mazda Japan were testing a few 16X in RX-8's in our outback/bush, one was a NA 16X (like the Renny).
On the "SALES" side of things Mazda Australia also do very little to NO TV advertising on the new RX-8, some Web Marketing, but that is all, the main reason you ask, and it is obvious, Mazda do not get a return from their marketing Dollar, in other words they get NO Bounce or RX-8 sales when they do TV slots?
18 months or so I had it from good authority here in Australia that Mazda Japan were testing a few 16X in RX-8's in our outback/bush, one was a NA 16X (like the Renny).
On the "SALES" side of things Mazda Australia also do very little to NO TV advertising on the new RX-8, some Web Marketing, but that is all, the main reason you ask, and it is obvious, Mazda do not get a return from their marketing Dollar, in other words they get NO Bounce or RX-8 sales when they do TV slots?
05-08-2009, 09:43 AM
#271
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Zoom44 that's really depressing....you'd know better than most anyone I can think off outside Mazda.....and how long now have they been developing it?? ... at least a couple years... there simply must not be much money/engineers behind the effort ...or apparently much urgency either....so 3 yrs hence means in or about July 2012 they'd be introing it as a 2013 model given their typical bring-to-market timing.
Sad...really sad IYAM.
Sad...really sad IYAM.
05-08-2009, 11:07 AM
#274
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Several companies were experimenting with DI on rotaries back in the 60s, eg, Mercedes Benz, Curtiss-Wright. Mazda had something called semi-DI on some later 12A engines but I don't know the details.
