ASH8

The new geometry really is not "new" the 13A in the FWD Mazda R130 has a similar geometry.

The 13A of 1970 has 10A Apex Seals (R100, RX-3 Part number 0820-23-131D), smaller diameter eccentric shaft, and rotors with bigger combustion "baths" than a normal 13B rotor.

So even back then Mazda were experimenting, the 13A has 2 x 650cc rotors that are much thinner than a 13B.

Gyro_Bot

I have to agree with Zoom. In the same measuring stick applied to software companies...

Release date delayed for better software: gives you: disappointed customers for a little while.

OR

Buggy software released on time: Gives you: Disappointed customers all of the time.

Yes yes... "but what about patches" - just remember, you've already established your poor marks, now it's all up hill from there.

I hope Mazda takes their time and comes up with another technological achievement (win another award?), like in they're other new engines. Mazda has a great benchmark, and we love them because they keep it. Call it manufacture loyalty... or from a different angle "product integrity".

I support Mazda.
Zoom Zoom!

[K]Jae

So its gonna be a 2 seater?

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

I just hope the 16x actually makes it to the market.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

You have Mazda knowledge and info to rival me. You're dangerous .

Paul.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i wonder if they are having more problems with the aluminum side plates?
i would hate to see such a beautiful package changed--the chassis and the braking are world class. the body design /4 seater is unique. All this car needs is some cooling mods and more power and it would be a instant hit.
I wonder why they refuse to go with a low boost set up?
I have been saying for almost 2 yrs. Fi the 8--give it about 300 to the wheels, a 60K warranty, extra cooling radiator and a water injection system and you have it.
the 16x is a great concept but it is already outclassed.
OD

DMRH

If they do do another RX-9. Lets hope its better looking than the original version from 78-81..





REgards

MattMPS

My vote for a flagship sport-sedan* w/ rotary....maybe coupled with Mazda hybrid system.

but, these are just dreams.....


*BTW..."sporty-sedan" it's a emerging segment here in EU : Vw, Audi,Mb and other manufacturers have something like that in listings or in the pipeline.

Mazda should think about it.....(maybe w/ a piston engine)

ASH8

As an Old M Parts Guys I only recently found out some news on the 13A with actual copies of the engine parts book supplied from my dealer through Mazda Australia Via Japan., I then sent to Germany and Walter.

The guy in the latest Zoom Zoom Mag Walter Frey has a German Mazda Dealership with a large old school Mazda Collection, he has a R130 FWD 13A which requires a rebuild, so I have become very friendly with Walter and have been trying to source parts for him.

We have found and finding most except the oil control rings, o rings and springs, apex seal springs, side seal springs and seals.

Specific Model Code for parts is 0823... ie 0823-10-711 Sump Gasket.

I was blown away to see it takes 10A apex seals and springs (0820) from the R100 and RX-3, also same corner seals and springs.

But get this it takes the same 4 x 12A inner orange compressions seal in the Rotor Housing's by part number super-session.???

So how does Mazda achieve the 1.3 litre with a 10A (litre) apex seal and a 10-12A (litre) Rotor Housing Compression Seal????

As we know it it would not be possible as it would be a normal 10A, but NO...

The only conclusion I can come up with is the eccentric shaft diameter is smaller than usual allowing the rotors to have a larger and deeper "bath" cut out.

How else, any Idea's, looking at the R130 engine parts book all the other parts look typical Mazda....rotary.

arghx7

From Wikipedia:

"The 13A was designed especially for front wheel drive applications. It had two 655 cc rotors for a total of 1310 cc. This was the only production Mazda Wankel with different rotor dimensions: Diameter was 120 mm (4.7 in) and offset was 17.5 mm (0.7 in), but depth remained the same as the 10A at 60 mm (2.4 in). Another major difference from the previous engines was the integrated water-cooled oil cooler.

The 13A was used only in the 1969–1972 R130 Luce, where it produced 126 hp (94 kW) and 126 ft·lbf (172 Nm). This was the end of the line for this engine design: the next Luce was rear wheel drive and Mazda never again made a front wheel drive rotary vehicle.

Applications:

* 1970–1972 Mazda R130"

ASH8

^ Yes I am aware of that, but how do they get the 1310CC capacity with 60 MM wide rotors.
As I said from a Spare Parts point of view the Inner Rotor Housing Combustion Seal is now the same as a 10A and 12A ..Part # 1668-10-171B. (Circumference)

The 13A inner housing seals are Mazda parts book listed as an (4) 0823-10-171 which Mazda Japan Factory Supersedes to a (4) 1668-10-171B, so the inner circumference of the housing chamber is the same as a 10A and 12A, so I can only conclude the Eccentric shaft is a different size (Smaller Bearing Diameter), with a larger combustion baths on the 3 rotor faces theselves to achieve the 655cc capacity.

The Rotor Bearings, and oil control ring seals plus oil seal o rings and springs are 0823 13A unique.

This is something I must get Walter to Confirm, as this pic is supposed to be a 13A engine.
It appears the engine is still mounted as a North-South Configuration, but has holes in the front of the Gearbox casing allowing drive shafts for the two front wheels.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I just happen to have a 13A here . I can check some stuff when I have time.

Paul.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Is that 13A for me ?

Im looking at some Rx-7(FC body) right now.(I know they use 12A, just saying) I dont know that much about RX-7 so ... yeah. Can I pm you with some questions? lol !

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

The 13A belongs to a very important friend but I'm not at liberty to say much else. There are definitely commonalities between 13A and 16X,

The FC used a 6 port 13B in NA form and a 4 port 13B turbo.

Of course you can PM me. Call me if you want to as well.

Paul.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

pm'ed sir

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

It defintely has 16X geometry to it. Here are a couple pics. I can't show much more because I'm documenting a build for a client and friend.

Paul.

ASH8

Interesting, thanks Paul,

So what is intriguing me is how does Mazda get the 1310 CC Capacity when according to Mazda Japan the inner housing Combustion seal (orange one) is the same as a 12A?, As I posted previously is the rotor bearing and eccentric shaft smaller (diameter) than normal to allow a deeper rotor bath cutout?..

Also what are you doing for Oil Control Rings, O rings and springs Paul, as I have German dealer trying to procure parts fro his own R130 with the 13A...

Would appreciate any help,,,please.

PM me maybe..

Ash

shazy

My brain hurts from reading all this...

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I'm actually indirectly helping the German dealer as well. We have some of the parts, we're aquiring some others and manufacturing others. We're making ceramic seals for the 10A and 12A 6mm. There are a fair amount of people in Australia, New Zealand, Puerto Rico and other countries that we imagine would appreciate a perfect apex seal.

I'm not sure what orange seal you're referring to. The inner oil seal O ring used to be kind of yellowish. The seals are bigger diameter. The rotor is taller than all other Mazda rotors and it's journals are bigger as well while the housings are only as wide as 10A. It's a stroker like the 16X.

Paul

ASH8

The inner Rotor Housing seal (combustion/coolant) the 1668-10-171B which according to Mazda Australia via their link to Japan Supersedes to the 12A one (1668-10-171B), genuine (orange) how can this be if the 13A housings are larger.?

Yes the oil control ring o rings are/were , yellow also light green.

Yes as I said the genuine Apex seals/springs are the R100 10A's as are corner seals and springs. He has the genuine Apex seals...I think

Walter, the German Dealer Principal is trying to find, oil control rings ,springs, and O rings, Sump gasket, side seals and springs. Apex seal springs. some O rings.
Gaskets...which are unique to the 13A.

Where are you going to find the Oil Control Rings Paul...

Thanks
Ash

There are still many 10A and 12A's going around here.

Number 7 here in this PIC is the Orange Seal (1668 Genuine) I am referring to.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Mazda Japan are wrong, if that's what they're saying. The 1668 would have been applicable to the 10A and 12A but not 13A. It would use 0823. Rick uses other water seals in their place. As for the oil casings, we might have to use 16X parts .

Paul.

ASH8

Yes Paul, this is what I thought, you can understand my question as to how they get the 1310 cc if the 13A uses the same O ring as a 12A?.

I wish I still had the "Screen-Shot" from Mazda Japan that I sent to Walter,
It clearly shows Mazda Japans stock on hand and parts and the superseding..
0823-10-171 goes to 1668-10-171B?, shows a quantity of -1 in stock.

The 4 Rotor Housing Dowel Pin "O" rings (each housing) went from 0813-10-173 to N3A1-10-B73
and they had 2676 in stock!!!...or was that 2679??...something like that!

Ash

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I believe you. I have info from Mazda Corp that says the same thing about that supercession. It's wrong other than you can cut the seal into pieces and make an adaptation with the 1668 which has the correct cross sectional dimension and wrong overall diameter. I think that's their intention. Anything else is an error on their part.

Paul.

moRotorMotor

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...mazda-rx72.htmGet your check books ready guys LOL.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Sorry still do not believe it.