Edmunds IL News on Next RX7 and RX9
02-13-2009, 07:27 PM
#101
Row faster, I hear banjos
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The RX-8 came out for model year 2004. The NC (third-gen) MX-5 arrived for MY 2006. Early test mules for the NC were cut-down RX-8s. The NC is based on the RX-8, not the other way around. Incidentally, the NC and RX-8 share no parts with the NB MX-5 (which shares most parts with the NA) so the RX-8 is not based on the NB.
By the way, the ND Miata is expected around MY 2011 or 2012. It was just facelifted, with some minor but positive mechanical changes, for 2009. 2012 is more likely date for the new car, with the economic downturn. Mazda has stated specifically that they plan to reduce the weight of the car by 10% (about 250 lb), and that they plan to take the car "back to its roots" (or something like that). I interpret that not only to mean weight reduction, but also a return to the more go-kart-like feel of the NA and NB, compared to the NC. Mazda has also expressed interest in different powerplants to reduce fuel consumption. They are apparently considering hybrid, diesel, and turbocharged small-displacement petrol designs. For weight reasons, I think a tubo petrol I4 of 1.6 to 1.8 liters makes the most sense.
The idea of building the RX-7/9 on extended versions of the ND's chassis makes sense, in terms of spreading out the costs. I'm not sure how different the ND chassis will be. The major motivation for the new car seems to be more stringent offset side-impact standards going into effect in, I think, 2011. If the car isn't ready by then, we may see a gap in production, much like how there is no 1998 Miata.
I agree that, if there is going to be a larger RX car with 4 seats (an RX-8 or RX-9) I'd guess that the 7 would only have 2. However, I could also see Mazda trying to broaden the appeal of the '7 by making it a 2+2. I hope they don't, since small rear seats, without doors to access them, are not too useful. The '8's rear seats are quite usable, thanks to the freestyle doors.
It would be fun to see the RX-9, if it is indeed a larger car, powered by a "24X" 3-rotor Wankel, but I doubt that we'll see that, at least right away. Too much development. It would also be neat to see that car called the Cosmo, but only one Mazda has a name in addition to its alphanumeric designation (not counting the Escape-based Tribute): the Miata. Mazda tried to get rid of the name, but everyone in North America just kept calling the car that, so they more-or-less had to bring it back. I don't think "Cosmo" has the same brand value in NA, so we are unlikely to get the name here. The name might be applied in Japan, though, the same way that the RX-7 was called the Savannah.
If I were running Mazda---and sadly I'm not---I'd like to see the models lined up this way, for maximum differentiation:
Mazda, like many companies, is moving to having similar styling for all their cars, as someone said above. I hope they move away from the big smile and toward Nagare. If the RX-7 looks like a front-engined version of the Furai, I think I may swoon.
Like chiketkd, I'm sold. If the cars are anything like I'm thinking/hoping they will be, I wouldn't mind having 4 rotors in my garage. And my wife can have the Mazdaspeed3 she has her eye on.
Michael
By the way, the ND Miata is expected around MY 2011 or 2012. It was just facelifted, with some minor but positive mechanical changes, for 2009. 2012 is more likely date for the new car, with the economic downturn. Mazda has stated specifically that they plan to reduce the weight of the car by 10% (about 250 lb), and that they plan to take the car "back to its roots" (or something like that). I interpret that not only to mean weight reduction, but also a return to the more go-kart-like feel of the NA and NB, compared to the NC. Mazda has also expressed interest in different powerplants to reduce fuel consumption. They are apparently considering hybrid, diesel, and turbocharged small-displacement petrol designs. For weight reasons, I think a tubo petrol I4 of 1.6 to 1.8 liters makes the most sense.
The idea of building the RX-7/9 on extended versions of the ND's chassis makes sense, in terms of spreading out the costs. I'm not sure how different the ND chassis will be. The major motivation for the new car seems to be more stringent offset side-impact standards going into effect in, I think, 2011. If the car isn't ready by then, we may see a gap in production, much like how there is no 1998 Miata.
I agree that, if there is going to be a larger RX car with 4 seats (an RX-8 or RX-9) I'd guess that the 7 would only have 2. However, I could also see Mazda trying to broaden the appeal of the '7 by making it a 2+2. I hope they don't, since small rear seats, without doors to access them, are not too useful. The '8's rear seats are quite usable, thanks to the freestyle doors.
It would be fun to see the RX-9, if it is indeed a larger car, powered by a "24X" 3-rotor Wankel, but I doubt that we'll see that, at least right away. Too much development. It would also be neat to see that car called the Cosmo, but only one Mazda has a name in addition to its alphanumeric designation (not counting the Escape-based Tribute): the Miata. Mazda tried to get rid of the name, but everyone in North America just kept calling the car that, so they more-or-less had to bring it back. I don't think "Cosmo" has the same brand value in NA, so we are unlikely to get the name here. The name might be applied in Japan, though, the same way that the RX-7 was called the Savannah.
If I were running Mazda---and sadly I'm not---I'd like to see the models lined up this way, for maximum differentiation:
- MX-5 Miata. Turbo-I4-powered. 2 seats and only a convertible. (Although I personally would like to have a coupe MX-5.) 2250 lbs for soft top. 77 more for power retractable hard top. Same length as the NA, with the wheelbase and track of an NC.
- RX-7. 16X-powered. 2 seats. Coupe or hatchback only. 2650 lb. Wheelbase of about 99 in.
- RX-8/9. 16X-powered. 4 seats, with either freestyle doors---call it the RX-8---or 4 regular doors---call it the RX-9. Coupe/sedan only. No more than 2900 lbs.
Mazda, like many companies, is moving to having similar styling for all their cars, as someone said above. I hope they move away from the big smile and toward Nagare. If the RX-7 looks like a front-engined version of the Furai, I think I may swoon.
Like chiketkd, I'm sold. If the cars are anything like I'm thinking/hoping they will be, I wouldn't mind having 4 rotors in my garage. And my wife can have the Mazdaspeed3 she has her eye on.
Michael
02-13-2009, 10:01 PM
#104
Administrator
was talking with someone about the possibility of a door change from freestyle. what about somethign liek this- it comes from volvo and Mazda and volvo are still sharing tech. who knows volvo may have even borrowed it FROM mazda
http://jalopnik.com/5111632/volvo-s6...ff-magic-doors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZatQcFYiA
http://jalopnik.com/5111632/volvo-s6...ff-magic-doors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZatQcFYiA
02-13-2009, 10:05 PM
#105
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those are cool
02-13-2009, 10:31 PM
#106
You Dumbass!!!
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To be perfectly honest. The three things that attract me to the 8 are
1. Doesn't look like anything else on the road.
2. <3000 lb weight with a chassis and suspension built with handling in mind.
3. rotary engine (not at first this thing grew on me so much <3 ).
As far a the 7, very niche, very track oriented, if they can get performance close to what Porsche puts out as before, they got something. (Screw Z's. I love em, I roll with them, but they compete with mustangs more than Miatas).
Another 8, with same\similar look. Completely do-able, think closer to the 7, with freestyle doors, rear seat room as current, honestly wouldn't change a thing now but the engine.
The 9...Here is where things get weird for me. Could Mazda really market a sedan, even an upmarket one the likes of a G, or IS with a rotary? I honestly think that could kill the company. Nobody with a luxury anything is concerned with maintenance, checking oil regularly, making sure not to shut off cold. Things of that nature. The 16x would have to be bulletproof, or maintenance-less to be successfully marketed in a luxury vehicle, unless they are thinking Sedan as in Evo, Speed3, Maxima, in which case I ask... thoughts?
Perfect line up IMHO:
7: 2 Seater, 16x, 6 Speed, 2200lbs, 280 HP. (I'm thinking Elise with Rotary... again, or bring the Miata coupe over here as the 7?)
8: 2+2, Freestyle (maintain current design as much as possible), 6 Speed, Dual Trans, 2800lbs. 280 horse.
9. 4 Seater Sedan, 7 Speed Dual Trans (4WD??? YEAH!), 280 HP and some kind of design to hold enough oil for the engine to burn for 4000 miles or so (less maint).
1. Doesn't look like anything else on the road.
2. <3000 lb weight with a chassis and suspension built with handling in mind.
3. rotary engine (not at first this thing grew on me so much <3 ).
As far a the 7, very niche, very track oriented, if they can get performance close to what Porsche puts out as before, they got something. (Screw Z's. I love em, I roll with them, but they compete with mustangs more than Miatas).
Another 8, with same\similar look. Completely do-able, think closer to the 7, with freestyle doors, rear seat room as current, honestly wouldn't change a thing now but the engine.
The 9...Here is where things get weird for me. Could Mazda really market a sedan, even an upmarket one the likes of a G, or IS with a rotary? I honestly think that could kill the company. Nobody with a luxury anything is concerned with maintenance, checking oil regularly, making sure not to shut off cold. Things of that nature. The 16x would have to be bulletproof, or maintenance-less to be successfully marketed in a luxury vehicle, unless they are thinking Sedan as in Evo, Speed3, Maxima, in which case I ask... thoughts?
Perfect line up IMHO:
7: 2 Seater, 16x, 6 Speed, 2200lbs, 280 HP. (I'm thinking Elise with Rotary... again, or bring the Miata coupe over here as the 7?)
8: 2+2, Freestyle (maintain current design as much as possible), 6 Speed, Dual Trans, 2800lbs. 280 horse.
9. 4 Seater Sedan, 7 Speed Dual Trans (4WD??? YEAH!), 280 HP and some kind of design to hold enough oil for the engine to burn for 4000 miles or so (less maint).
Last edited by Symbioticgenius; 02-13-2009 at 10:43 PM.
02-13-2009, 10:34 PM
#107
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IMo, the rx7 should emulate the furai concept, a lot, maybe right down to the surfacing along the side and the single rotor shaped exhaust outlet 
A good mix of 3rd gen and concept, thank you very much Mazda.
BTW, it'd be cool if the freestyle doors opened away from the car and back next time around. It would make it easier to access the back seat, might be costly though
A good mix of 3rd gen and concept, thank you very much Mazda.BTW, it'd be cool if the freestyle doors opened away from the car and back next time around. It would make it easier to access the back seat, might be costly though
Last edited by Ever Hernandez; 02-13-2009 at 10:47 PM.
02-13-2009, 10:49 PM
#108
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Plus, give me a focused 2-seater called the RX-7.
Michael
02-13-2009, 11:10 PM
#109
zoom zoom
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was talking with someone about the possibility of a door change from freestyle. what about somethign liek this- it comes from volvo and Mazda and volvo are still sharing tech. who knows volvo may have even borrowed it FROM mazda
http://jalopnik.com/5111632/volvo-s6...ff-magic-doors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZatQcFYiA
http://jalopnik.com/5111632/volvo-s6...ff-magic-doors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZatQcFYiA
02-13-2009, 11:13 PM
#110
zoom zoom
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...sounds like this rx-9 might have the possibility of being a real wildcard of a car in terms of unconventional (innovative?) features (besides its engine). if that's the case, i like it even more
02-14-2009, 12:03 AM
#111
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^As far styling is concerned, I expect the Rx8 successor to be more conservative in the styling department and the Rx7 to be more radical.
Just take a look at the current styling recipients - like the Mx5, Cx7, Cx9, and Mazda 6- subtle yet distinctively Mazda, then you have the 2010 Mazda 3
My guess is they want to target the Cx7 and the 6 to single families or couples who want to start one and the Cx9 to larger families. That leaves the 3 to take it up a notch!
The Mx5 is Mazda's 911, no radical changes here. They just continue to improve on the previous generation, not straying too far from the original formula.
Just take a look at the current styling recipients - like the Mx5, Cx7, Cx9, and Mazda 6- subtle yet distinctively Mazda, then you have the 2010 Mazda 3
My guess is they want to target the Cx7 and the 6 to single families or couples who want to start one and the Cx9 to larger families. That leaves the 3 to take it up a notch!
The Mx5 is Mazda's 911, no radical changes here. They just continue to improve on the previous generation, not straying too far from the original formula.
02-14-2009, 01:00 AM
#112
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Sorry if this is a repost.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090213....9-in-the-works
Bring it Mazda. I held off getting a 370z to see what the Nismo 370 will bring and to see if you would man up. Please do man up....
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090213....9-in-the-works
Bring it Mazda. I held off getting a 370z to see what the Nismo 370 will bring and to see if you would man up. Please do man up....
02-14-2009, 09:32 AM
#117
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Did any of them come with 4 seats from the factor or were they all later bolt-ons?
02-14-2009, 10:24 AM
#118
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02-14-2009, 11:08 AM
#119
I can wait a couple of years for the rx7 to come out. I still havent acheived the full potential of the 8 or have had the exact fun with the car that I would like to. And even though the 8 has been around since 2003. I still always get stairs and littel kids pointing at the car all the time. My car gets more attention then my friends M3. So I rather mazda take its time and get the Rx7 right, so when it comes out it will be a force to be recond with.
02-14-2009, 11:36 AM
#121
- MX-5 Miata. Turbo-I4-powered. 2 seats and only a convertible. (Although I personally would like to have a coupe MX-5.) 2250 lbs for soft top. 77 more for power retractable hard top. Same length as the NA, with the wheelbase and track of an NC.
- RX-7. 16X-powered. 2 seats. Coupe or hatchback only. 2650 lb. Wheelbase of about 99 in.
- RX-8/9. 16X-powered. 4 seats, with either freestyle doors---call it the RX-8---or 4 regular doors---call it the RX-9. Coupe/sedan only. No more than 2900 lbs.
Michael
I' dont' see a space for an rx-9 (a bigger car than rx-8) w/ only conventional wankel engine....mainly for Co2 issues ,there are a lot of restrective laws for co2 emission in Europe/Japan and a lot more are coming...
i bet always for an hybrid based on a rotary engine, because in the past Madza have talked about the possibility (think about the news in the past about a "proprietary hybrid powertrain"), and there is a lot of developments undergoing on the Premacy HRE.....
Extract from the last industrial plan (mid advancement plan) 2007-2011:
Future technologies
- Begin commercial leasing of the Premacy Hydrogen RE Hybrid in 2008. Increase its power by 40 percent and achieve a 200 km range.
- Launch a vehicle with HEV system based on the Hydrogen RE Hybrid toward the start of the decade beginning in 2010.
- Develop an all-new Hydrogen RE with dynamic performance equivalent to a 3.0-liter gasoline engine and a range of 400 km."
here's the link
http://automen.blogspot.com/2007/03/...-mid-term.html
Last edited by MattMPS; 02-14-2009 at 12:08 PM.
02-14-2009, 11:51 AM
#122
Personally I vote for as light as is possible 2 door RX7 with the new motor (16X, 16B?) with a turbocharged version a year afterward and a convertible as well the year following; all providing pieces and sharing platform or architecture with an ND MX5 as well as the replacement for the RX8. I think the replacement for the RX8 should be a hybrid using the electric motor for start up and initial movement. The wankel should come on at certain throttle application with the electric supplementing for low end torque (Therefore the gas engine would need no starter and if done properly would never flood). This, to me, is the smartest way for Mazda to keep the rotary alive until their hydrogen dreams are achieved.
Paul.
02-14-2009, 12:05 PM
#123
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+2 on that.
02-14-2009, 12:17 PM
#125
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I'll pay a premium for that.