best motoring vol. 7: rx8 vs g35 vs s2000 vs wrx vs rsx
06-20-2003, 12:13 AM
#176
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Re: re
Originally posted by MPester
I am going to get the EVO instead
I am going to get the EVO instead
06-20-2003, 12:58 AM
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BTW. I thought the S2000 was 240hp and 153lb-ft? Or is the one in Japan different? Also, is the 350Z in Japan REALLY 280hp? Or is it underrated like the GT-R?
Oddly enough the Japanese don't rate any of their cars higher than 280PS (old gentlemans agreement). The 350Z makes the same 287HP in Japan spec.
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.
About the G35C, I'm not sure what Skyline Mechanic has to be proud about. We're talking about a 280PS car being outrun by a measly S2000 with 157 ft lbs of torque. Throw the G35C/350Z into the Best Motoring "280PS" class which includes the EVO, FD, NSX, GTR, and watch it get left behind.
06-20-2003, 09:05 AM
#179
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Originally posted by Jimmylove
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.
:D
06-20-2003, 09:52 AM
#180
Originally posted by Puppy1
Attack of the Sticky Ports!!! :D
Attack of the Sticky Ports!!!
:D
6 seconds to 60 is quick enough for me, maybe not for some people... but enough for me.
06-21-2003, 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by revhappy
The RX8 is certainly not living up to the hype, at least from a pure performance point of view. I have been visiting this forum for about a year and a half and remember all the hopes a lot of people had in terms of weight, handling and accleration.
From the start of the first reviews of preproduction models towards the end of 2002, we started seeing signs of "faint praise". The weight figures then came significantly above many forum members expectations and hopes. As the newer reviews came out this year, there were some more warning signs (i.e. Car magazine's review comparing the RX8 to the 350Z and Sports Car International's take on the RX8 on an autocross course). Even the fuel efficiency figures dissapointed many forum members. This video is the latest of a series of signs that show the RX8 is much closer to a sports sedan than a sports car.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high reving, "low torque" sports car. However, this design requires light weight (i.e. less amenities) and a tightly tuned suspension to compete with torquier sports cars. Lighter weight is even more important in a rotary that has its power limited by fuel efficiency and emissions weaknesses. The concept of a four door sports car is a stretch. Perhaps a sporty sports sedan would be more correct?
It should be interesting to see if the RX8 really is successful in the marketplace or is "Squished Like a Bug".
The RX8 is certainly not living up to the hype, at least from a pure performance point of view. I have been visiting this forum for about a year and a half and remember all the hopes a lot of people had in terms of weight, handling and accleration.
From the start of the first reviews of preproduction models towards the end of 2002, we started seeing signs of "faint praise". The weight figures then came significantly above many forum members expectations and hopes. As the newer reviews came out this year, there were some more warning signs (i.e. Car magazine's review comparing the RX8 to the 350Z and Sports Car International's take on the RX8 on an autocross course). Even the fuel efficiency figures dissapointed many forum members. This video is the latest of a series of signs that show the RX8 is much closer to a sports sedan than a sports car.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high reving, "low torque" sports car. However, this design requires light weight (i.e. less amenities) and a tightly tuned suspension to compete with torquier sports cars. Lighter weight is even more important in a rotary that has its power limited by fuel efficiency and emissions weaknesses. The concept of a four door sports car is a stretch. Perhaps a sporty sports sedan would be more correct?
It should be interesting to see if the RX8 really is successful in the marketplace or is "Squished Like a Bug".
Performance and practicality wise... The mazda6s is a much better car than a rx-8. More space inside. Normal rear doors and more leg room. More power and more TORQUE. TORQUE is what gives you good acceleration... not HP.
High revving is not what a $27,000 car should need to do. It makes it sound like a 15,000 honda civic or any other vtec engine. Plus the extra weight will make the RWD handling real sloppy just like the lexus is 300. That car fishtails SO easily ... even with traction control.
The halfway decent fuel consumption comes from leaning out the mixture.... which makes turboing not very easy to do.
Over all a nice try and I can imagine those goofy 40 year olds that ride a miata wanting a rx-8. But for the rest grab the Mazda6s. It's a much better and practical car.
Last edited by block911; 06-21-2003 at 10:16 AM.
06-21-2003, 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by bbertha37
Are you on crazy pill? If anyone considers getting a Millenia *aka. Mazda luxury car!?* then you need to check yourself into rehab. A Mazda luxury car is like getting a lobster dinner from 7-11, or buying a engagement ring from 99 cent store. Pleeeeeeeze~ People don't buy Millenia for very good reasons, mostly because the general public is still fairly intelligent.
if it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.
Unfortunately, we are talking about a Mazda. So NO, it can't be a great car, because it's a Mazda.
Mazda sucks, please stay away for your own sake. Maybe wait to see if Ford would make their version of the RX-8 (New Cougar 2+2?) and market it in the US. I much rather buy a Ford than Mazda.
As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.
We don't need an automobile engineer to know the VQ35DE is a superior engine to the Renesis (unless the Renesis only cost like $2000 to build, then I'd give in to the econo factor) I wonder why 99.9% of the cars in the world are using piston engine, and only Mazda uses rotary? Hmmmm~~ That's right, cuz that's the only thing they got! Gimmicks!
Preach on, brother! Preach on!
Are you on crazy pill? If anyone considers getting a Millenia *aka. Mazda luxury car!?* then you need to check yourself into rehab. A Mazda luxury car is like getting a lobster dinner from 7-11, or buying a engagement ring from 99 cent store. Pleeeeeeeze~ People don't buy Millenia for very good reasons, mostly because the general public is still fairly intelligent.
if it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.
Unfortunately, we are talking about a Mazda. So NO, it can't be a great car, because it's a Mazda.
Mazda sucks, please stay away for your own sake. Maybe wait to see if Ford would make their version of the RX-8 (New Cougar 2+2?) and market it in the US. I much rather buy a Ford than Mazda.
As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.
We don't need an automobile engineer to know the VQ35DE is a superior engine to the Renesis (unless the Renesis only cost like $2000 to build, then I'd give in to the econo factor) I wonder why 99.9% of the cars in the world are using piston engine, and only Mazda uses rotary? Hmmmm~~ That's right, cuz that's the only thing they got! Gimmicks!
Preach on, brother! Preach on!
oh god.. please don't think I'm a stupid troll like this dude.
I dig Mazdas. They out handle every car in their class. From the protege to the 6.
06-21-2003, 10:43 AM
#183
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Originally posted by block911
Performance and practicality wise... The mazda6s is a much better car than a rx-8. More space inside. Normal rear doors and more leg room. More power and more TORQUE. TORQUE is what gives you good acceleration... not HP.
High revving is not what a $27,000 car should need to do. It makes it sound like a 15,000 honda civic or any other vtec engine. Plus the extra weight will make the RWD handling real sloppy just like the lexus is 300. That car fishtails SO easily ... even with traction control.
Over all a nice try and I can imagine those goofy 40 year olds that ride a miata wanting a rx-8. But for the rest grab the Mazda6s. It's a much better and practical car.
Performance and practicality wise... The mazda6s is a much better car than a rx-8. More space inside. Normal rear doors and more leg room. More power and more TORQUE. TORQUE is what gives you good acceleration... not HP.
High revving is not what a $27,000 car should need to do. It makes it sound like a 15,000 honda civic or any other vtec engine. Plus the extra weight will make the RWD handling real sloppy just like the lexus is 300. That car fishtails SO easily ... even with traction control.
Over all a nice try and I can imagine those goofy 40 year olds that ride a miata wanting a rx-8. But for the rest grab the Mazda6s. It's a much better and practical car.
And extra weight? Where - the Renesis is way lighter than the Mazda 6 V6 and the car as a whole is lighter too. Finally I have an IS300 (which is universally praised for it's great handling if nothing else) - it only fishtails in the wet if you do something stupid with traction turned off (which I do for fun sometimes).
06-21-2003, 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by pelucidor
Obviously the Mazda 6 has more practicality than the RX-8, but I have to assume you are joking about the performance being better. Your comments on torque suggest that you have a lot of reading and understanding to do (just like me 9 months ago) - perform a search, there are plenty of posts here on the myth of the torque number and how gearing plays a part on performance if the engine revs high enough. High revving engines are bad for performance? - yep those F1 cars are sure slow as they have to rev to 18k rpm... Did you notice the car with the least torque came first in this video (it revs high too)?
And extra weight? Where - the Renesis is way lighter than the Mazda 6 V6 and the car as a whole is lighter too. Finally I have an IS300 (which is universally praised for it's great handling if nothing else) - it only fishtails in the wet if you do something stupid with traction turned off (which I do for fun sometimes).
Obviously the Mazda 6 has more practicality than the RX-8, but I have to assume you are joking about the performance being better. Your comments on torque suggest that you have a lot of reading and understanding to do (just like me 9 months ago) - perform a search, there are plenty of posts here on the myth of the torque number and how gearing plays a part on performance if the engine revs high enough. High revving engines are bad for performance? - yep those F1 cars are sure slow as they have to rev to 18k rpm... Did you notice the car with the least torque came first in this video (it revs high too)?
And extra weight? Where - the Renesis is way lighter than the Mazda 6 V6 and the car as a whole is lighter too. Finally I have an IS300 (which is universally praised for it's great handling if nothing else) - it only fishtails in the wet if you do something stupid with traction turned off (which I do for fun sometimes).
so why did the rx-8 get beat on so bad??????
06-21-2003, 11:50 AM
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Why did the S2000 get beat so bad in its debut video? The 4D's.
You have to understand that one review or video does not make or break. Wait till the car comes out, take a test drive, see how it does in numerous track events.
You have to understand that one review or video does not make or break. Wait till the car comes out, take a test drive, see how it does in numerous track events.
Last edited by chenpin; 06-21-2003 at 11:53 AM.
06-21-2003, 01:00 PM
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RANK---------------------5-----------1--------------4
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522
Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.
Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?
* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000,
and cost so much less.
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522
Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.
Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?
* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000,
and cost so much less.
06-21-2003, 01:05 PM
#188
Maybe the RX-8 just lost.
One way or another... I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance, and as I said a thousand times... drive it first (as I'm going to do also) and we'll see.
Right now, the G35C is top of my list. If the RX-8 tops that (which I expect, given my criteria it would), then I'll be firm on the RX-8.
But the G35C is a great car, and the RX-8 will for my purposes, likely be a better one.
To each his own.
One way or another... I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance, and as I said a thousand times... drive it first (as I'm going to do also) and we'll see.
Right now, the G35C is top of my list. If the RX-8 tops that (which I expect, given my criteria it would), then I'll be firm on the RX-8.
But the G35C is a great car, and the RX-8 will for my purposes, likely be a better one.
To each his own.
06-21-2003, 01:09 PM
#189
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Originally posted by Jimmylove
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.
About the G35C, I'm not sure what Skyline Mechanic has to be proud about. We're talking about a 280PS car being outrun by a measly S2000 with 157 ft lbs of torque. Throw the G35C/350Z into the Best Motoring "280PS" class which includes the EVO, FD, NSX, GTR, and watch it get left behind.
I just watched the entire video this afternoon. I firmly believe the white RX8 they featured in that race was down on power. Either that or Mazda ovverated the HP again.
About the G35C, I'm not sure what Skyline Mechanic has to be proud about. We're talking about a 280PS car being outrun by a measly S2000 with 157 ft lbs of torque. Throw the G35C/350Z into the Best Motoring "280PS" class which includes the EVO, FD, NSX, GTR, and watch it get left behind.
280ps? proud? Maybe it has something to do with the power-weight ratio. More like pleasantly surprised. Just like back in May when the G35C beat the 350Z on Tsukuba. You are right though, G35C would get their *** handed by the NSX ($90k) GT-R (Discontinued) FD (DIscontinued) Evo8 and STi on track. Not that I'd care, that's the expectation anyhow.
btw: Jimmylove, care to review the first part of the video for us? The part where they compared the RX-8 to the Miata and FD RS on the mountain roads? I just remember Takuya saying the RX-8 is very fast and yet comfortable on the switchbacks.
06-21-2003, 01:56 PM
#191
Originally posted by block911
" I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance"
AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHHAHAH
that something a geo metro owner would say:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
" I don't really care. Lap times are not indicative of a car's performance"
AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHHAHAH
that something a geo metro owner would say:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
06-21-2003, 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
RANK---------------------5-----------1--------------4
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522
Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.
Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?
* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000, and cost so much less.
RANK---------------------5-----------1--------------4
Name-----------------RX8-----S2000----Integra R
Weight (lbs)-------2889-------2778---------2602
Engine---------13B-MSP ------F20C---------K20A
Displacement---654×2-------1997---------1998
Max Power----------250--------250-----------220
Max Torque---------159--------160-----------152
PW Ratio-----------5.24--------5.04----------5.36
Price (USD)------23913------29826-------22522
Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C. Perhaps a production Renesis dyno would give us a better idea. Specs never tell the whole story, for example, BMW 330 can hang with the G35C despite its supposedly 55hp deficit on spec.
Interesting the RX-8 and S2000 has almost identical specs, (power, torque, 9000rpm redline, small displacement engine) except the 111lb weight difference. The RX-8 probably has better structural ridigity than the S2000 as well. On paper, the RX-8 should have been right on S2000's tail. So maybe the RX-8 they tested was not broken in, underpowered, or had some intake manifold management problem. Maybe the driver was unfamiliar with the nature of the Renesis engine, or proper gearing. Gan-san said given the right conditions, he thinks the RX-8 is capable of doing 1'10 on Tsukuba. Supposedly an underpowered 210hp pre-production RX-8 can beat NSX time on Laguna Seca?
* I didn't know the Integra R was actually lighter than the S2000,
and cost so much less.
The Integra Type R (previous US version) is certainly a car that makes little compromises, but if you can live with the noisy, rough ride, it is one of the most fun cars around (although as with some honda's the steering feel needs to be better). About 2 years ago when the RSX-S came out, I liked it, but it fell up a bit short. At that time, the 2 cars I was waiting for were the RX8 and the RSX-R. Its an interesting comparison in that they are close performance wise (on paper at least), but take a different approach (RX8 - superior basic platorm with softer tuning for broad consumption and RSX-R- FWD economy car roots with lots of tuning to be made competitive with cars with superior platforms). Most people would choose the RX8 however, for me I am very partial to a really tightly tuned car (even if the basic platform is inferior). Unfortunately, many folks don't think the RSX-R will make it here with the performance bar being risen (especially with EVO, STI, etc), but many think a Civic Type R might arrive (the SI has not done well) and be an excellent sport compact for around $20K.
06-21-2003, 03:28 PM
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The rsx type s has a msrp of 24k and if you just add in the factory performance package it adds another 4-5k making the car 28k! The type r is an even bigger upgrade then the lame factory performance pacakge in the states so I would assume the type r would be more then the 28k price tag making the car a horrible buy. Acura/honda need to get their act together, honestly the prices they ask for a fwd car is horrible. The new tsx? It's just a rebadged european accord, with a weaker engine then the US spec accord and has basically and rsx type s engine yet its selling at close to 30k! Biggest rip off in the world.
On a side note the rx8 did not beat the nsx on laguna it kept up. The NSX got 1'50" while the rx-8 got a 1'50"70. I don't believe that the rx-8 had a problem at laguna seca. Many rx-8s probably had port problems but some did not. The 5.9s 0-60 figure as many have said seems to be the correct time for the rx-8. The magazines who got a time of 6.3-6.4 probably did have stuck ports, but then again who knows because rotarynews.com's question and answer segment states that the problem was with the supplier of the valves so that statement makes it seem like all preproduction rx-8s had the problem. Even bern from rotarynews.com has stated the preproduction model had less power then the rx-8 on these forums.
On a side note the rx8 did not beat the nsx on laguna it kept up. The NSX got 1'50" while the rx-8 got a 1'50"70. I don't believe that the rx-8 had a problem at laguna seca. Many rx-8s probably had port problems but some did not. The 5.9s 0-60 figure as many have said seems to be the correct time for the rx-8. The magazines who got a time of 6.3-6.4 probably did have stuck ports, but then again who knows because rotarynews.com's question and answer segment states that the problem was with the supplier of the valves so that statement makes it seem like all preproduction rx-8s had the problem. Even bern from rotarynews.com has stated the preproduction model had less power then the rx-8 on these forums.
06-21-2003, 03:51 PM
#194
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Actually the car with the least torque was the Miata, and then the Integra, then RX8... and S2000 has 1 more torque than the RX-8. Power weight ratio - the S2000 comes on top, followed by RX8, Integra R, WRX, and then G35C.
This thread is getting more attention than it deserves. On several other tracks the RX-8 beat or equaled some very good cars (NSX for example) but everyone is focussing on this particlar article. Remember that in Formula 1 Ferrari may have the best car, the biggest budget and also by far the best driver but even they don't win every single race. I will not bother to take part in this thread any further - for me the defining moment (good or bad) will be in three weeks during my test drive.
06-21-2003, 05:07 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bern
Oh yea, did I mention the production car is quicker 0-60 than the pre-prod models. Reported 0-60 of 5.9 will drop by a few tenths.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I was wrong about 5.9 being the norm for the rx-8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bern
Oh yea, did I mention the production car is quicker 0-60 than the pre-prod models. Reported 0-60 of 5.9 will drop by a few tenths.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I was wrong about 5.9 being the norm for the rx-8
06-21-2003, 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by AsianStyle
The new tsx? It's just a rebadged european accord, with a weaker engine then the US spec accord and has basically and rsx type s engine yet its selling at close to 30k! Biggest rip off in the world.
The new tsx? It's just a rebadged european accord, with a weaker engine then the US spec accord and has basically and rsx type s engine yet its selling at close to 30k! Biggest rip off in the world.
06-21-2003, 08:55 PM
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If you go to edmunds.com it states tmv for the tsx at 26,990 for a 4 door rsx? I think I will pass. If the engine was the rsx r's engine or if it was rwd then I would give it a try, but being a competitor for the g35 and the 330 it falls very short IMHO.
06-21-2003, 08:55 PM
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If you go to edmunds.com it states tmv for the tsx at 26,990 for a 4 door rsx? I think I will pass. If the engine was the rsx r's engine or if it was rwd then I would give it a try, but being a competitor for the g35 and the 330 it falls very short IMHO. How much does the tsx cost in Europe?
06-22-2003, 01:33 AM
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I think TSX is more of a competitor for the IS300 (discounted) BMW 325, RX-8, and even Mazda 6 at its price point. The TSX just might be the most sporty FWD sedan to hit the US market. That being said, FWD and heavy weight do not mix. I heard it's fun to drive, but FWD no longer holds any interest for me. (unless it's a lightweight like the RSX) The TSX seems to fall short compare to other cars, even its American Accord Cousin.
btw: US Accord is being 'imported' to Japan as a luxury Honda model called Inspire. Funny how our Accord becomes their luxury model, and their Accord becomes our Acura. It would appear that they swap the interior as well.
btw: US Accord is being 'imported' to Japan as a luxury Honda model called Inspire. Funny how our Accord becomes their luxury model, and their Accord becomes our Acura. It would appear that they swap the interior as well.
