chenpin

yeah, that's why I said "fully behind the front axle". Still, imo front-midship means behind the axle.

There's actually a "history"? I thought FM was something new.

edit. by FM I mean Nissan/Infiniti FM in current products

SA22C

Well, this is just to get SM's goat, but Mazda beat Nissan to the punch twenty five years ago, with the original RX-7, and continued the tradition throughout the three generations of RX-7. The front/midship design has always been a staple of rotary engined cars.

RX-8 Zoomster

Do you see that price? Oh, if I could go back in time. I could pick up almost 5 of those for the price of my RX-8.

Renesis08

To think 10-15yrs. from now we could be paying ~$100k for your average vehicle if inflation keeps rising.

Digisan

My mistake, I was being sarcastic as well, I forgot the

Cheers,

D-san

SA22C

Adjusting for inflation, the 1979 RX-7 would cost just under $20k in current dollars. Like the current RX-8, the 7 undercut the competition and offered comparable performance, thanks to the compact rotary engine. And again, in characteristic Mazda fashion, the 7 may have had less power than the competition, but was also lighter, tipping the scales at 2385 pounds, nearly 400 pounds lighter than the Porshe 924 and 500 pounds lighter than the Datsun 280Z.

bbertha37

OMG, is there still some confusion here as to which side of this "battle" I am on? :o C'mon, people. Learn how to read and then look over my posts again. As to what type of car I drive... IT WILL HOPEFULLY BE AN RX-8 BY JULY. Yea, quite the Mazda and Rotary hater am I.

pelucidor

Quite a show we have here!

My thoughts:
On this day, at Tsukuba track, with this particular driver Best Motoring shows the RX-8 lost handily to the S2000, G35C, WRX and even the RSX (Itegra -R). Fair enough.

On another day at Laguna Seca a magazine called Best Motoring shows the RX-8 setting the same lap time as an NSX. Perhaps the Integra-R is faster than an NSX... I don't think so. Heck the S2000 is nowhere close to the NSX at any track.

On another day at Willow Springs a magazine/TV show called Car & Driver (who I assume have some good drivers) shows the RX-8 lapping about 0.1secs behind the G35C (and less than a second behind the 390hp/390lb ft Mustang Cobra).

For those of you fixated on this issue I say the BM video at Tsukuba does not tell the whole story, it is perhaps 1% of the puzzle. Look at the big picture - all reviews, all test drives (inc. owner driving impressions), all track results etc to see how the RX-8 really stacks up. In a few months we will see the RX-8 autocrossing and in road races - that will tell us a lot more than this BM video.

chenpin

Pelucidor, you're exactly right. That's what this whole argument is about. There are some here who are just jumping the gun and stating the RX-8s can't perform based on this one video while others are justing saying "wait and see"

Skyline Maniac

In the mean time....... 650+ views on Imagestation, and still not one single comment on this thread about the video itself. So what do you guys think after watching the video? You think the RX-8 can keep up with the S2000 and Integra R in the corners? The RX-8 maybe in the wrong gear at the time or didn't take the best race line? (It wasn't hugging the apex) 600+ people have watched the video and so far no one has any analysis? Yet I get bashed for typing out a review and translation of the same video? Come on guys, give me your OWN impression of the videos.

You guys want to make comments about my Mazda comment on FA, which is fine. I never brought that sarcastic junk over here and everyone on FA knows those threads are for entertainment purpose. (Don't believe me, go there and ask) Now if you don't agree with my posts on FA regarding Mazda, go there and debate with me. I am not going to spend time arguing over sarcastic comments I made on another forum. (Find me a post on RX-8 forum where I clearly bashed the RX-8, Mazda or Rotary without backing and we'll talk) You guys want to dig more into my FA threads? They'll just make your blood boil~

Oh yeah, regarding FM platform: It's a concept designed into the new Nissan cars (350Z, G35, G35C, FX35, FX45, GT-R) that has the center of gravity of the engine mounted behind the front axle. It's not a revolutionary design, but a new thing for Nissan. Chief designer of the G35 borrowed the idea from his Nissan Racing Development in Japan. It's just a catch phrase, not an exclusive technology. I still think all things being equal, the biggest deficit of the RX-8 is the engine and tranny. (Straightline performance, basicly)

Maximus

No matter what the Mazda Haters say against it I still love the RX-8....mine will be Silver with red/black leather interior.

As for G35 coupe I had it in mind and it had its initial impact but then I realized it was not that "unique". It has a nice 3/4 view from behind but the rest of it looks disproportionate. Personally I feel the front looks bad. I cant imagine my self sitting in that UGLY G35 interior for the next three years of my life with all the rattles and sqeaks. I also did not like the transmission as it was not smooth at all (i have been driving manual transmissions in all cars I have ever owned except one) and after driving it I knew what all the reviewers meant by saying it had 'notchy transmission. The car also didn't give me that pure sport feel ... I just felt as if I was driving a souped up Maxima or a some faster sedan. The only thing sporty about it was the exhuast sound.

For all those considering G35 coupe I strongly recommend you check out the BMW 330ci. If straight line performance is so important then go for STi, LanEvo, SRT4 etc.

S2000 is out of question for me because it doesn't have have the back seats, period.

The most important thing for me is how the RX8 would feel as a daily driven car and I am sure it will be up to par. This car is definately a sports car and it gives me extreme sporty feeling just by looking at the interior images (I have'nt got tired of looking at it in last 6 months or so !!) The design of the car with a rotory sitting under the hood is simply irresistable (now proved the best international engine this year by 50 renowned motoring journalists from 22 countries .. i dont care what BS skylinemaniac or anyone else says about rotory ... they make totally unjustified comments without any proof). Torque issue = NO ISSUE. Just wait until you press the accelerator to the floor !!!

So pls everyone, dont be disappointed by the people saying BS about RX8 on this forum...frankly speaking I do get a bit frustated sometimes people saying bad things about the car that I like so much but then, as someone said earlier, you have to look at the bigger picture and not make your judgement on only one review. Hey dont loose your chance of being a proud owner of a sports car like no other !!!

bbertha37

Well, thats odd. Every reviewer has raved about the engine and the transmission of the RX-8. They love the silky, smooth gearbox(akin to the miata's), and the Renesis has just been named the International Engine of the Year. Clearly, you just don't "get it" if you're still complaining about straight-line performance.

Net.Metro

I am driving a silver 2000 Celica GTS now. My next car at this November will be a Red Mica RX-8 which I had just ordered MSRP at Marina Mazda at Capitola. My decision is after looking at this several options.

1. 350Z. Look like my Celica but 2 seats only. 700 lbs more heavier than my Celica! Affordable but who say my kid shouldn't enjoy sport car passion at my back. Damn those purist!

2. G35C. $5K more pricer than Z, and also 800 lbs more heavier than my Celica.

3. RSX. More power and classy than my Celica, but Celica is more athletic to my taste, plus I do not want a FWD anymore. Same applied for Mini Cooper S, which is a hype and impractical. Anyway, if given me choice of RSX or Mini Cooper S only, I will keep driving my Celica for it is a better car

4. BMW 323/5. Can get it now near invoice price. Less power but nonetheless it beats all above in ride and handling, even though it is marginal in some cases.

Thus it makes RX-8 very attractive to me. Motorcycle character rotory (Believe me, I rev my 1.8 VVTL-i above 6K rpm in every day driving. I do not race and I do not have ticket in last 10 years), RWD, true mid-engine design, light weight chasis (still 500lbs over), seat 4 full size (my son could be as tall as me in 3 years), good brake. All these add up to a very well balanced sport heritage for my purpose. In this case road feel, steering feel and etc. Though this is what I am speculating from saying on paper, but what good design is not begin from paper? I must admit that the shape of RX-8 does not impress me as Celica, Z, or G35C at first sight, but it is glowing on me. Comparison period. Decision has been made.

RX-8 Zoomster

It definately doesn't look like you are making sarcastic remarks on the Fresh Alloy Forum. You meant every word & you relish at any opportunity to inject your "biased" remarks. Everyone on the Alloy Forum knows your dislike for Mazda.

Quote: "Want more Piston vs Rotary arguments? I think the facts have presented themselves. NA Rotaries suck ***. Turbo Rotaries also suck ***. Reliability or performance? Pick one, because with Mazda, you can't ask for too much".

"G35C....... Kicked RX-8's *** on track.......enlighten us your theory how the lack of torque is compensated by rotary's high revving nature? "

"If rotary is so superior, then how come the Renesis got its *** whooped by 2 different Honda 2L 4 bangers that gets better gas milage, better response and apparently better power delivery? Could it be..... Renesis sucks like your typical Mazda technology? "

"Yet at the end of the day, it's this odd kid in class. It's not a sedan, not that practical, not a sport car, not a real coupe, not a luxury car, not really classy, not slow, not too fast, alittle ricy, not a econobox, not cheap, not conventional...... You can either call it "Unique" or "Gimmicky."

"Well, it's fun to drive!" Let's see how fun it's going to be when an Accord kicks your *** at a stop light, or a SUV overtakes you on the freeway onramp. Oh yeah, that'd be really fun. "

Like I said before, if you want to come to this forum and lurk or inject some useful info (by the way, we do appreciate the BM video), you are more than welcome.

But don't come here and tell us "lies" about how you really feel or try to get sympathy by saying your Fresh Alloy forum remarks were only sarcasm. That is insulting to us on this forum. We have much more class than you and your many brethern on the Alloy forum.

revhappy

The RX8 is certainly not living up to the hype, at least from a pure performance point of view. I have been visiting this forum for about a year and a half and remember all the hopes a lot of people had in terms of weight, handling and accleration.

From the start of the first reviews of preproduction models towards the end of 2002, we started seeing signs of "faint praise". The weight figures then came significantly above many forum members expectations and hopes. As the newer reviews came out this year, there were some more warning signs (i.e. Car magazine's review comparing the RX8 to the 350Z and Sports Car International's take on the RX8 on an autocross course). Even the fuel efficiency figures dissapointed many forum members. This video is the latest of a series of signs that show the RX8 is much closer to a sports sedan than a sports car.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high reving, "low torque" sports car. However, this design requires light weight (i.e. less amenities) and a tightly tuned suspension to compete with torquier sports cars. Lighter weight is even more important in a rotary that has its power limited by fuel efficiency and emissions weaknesses. The concept of a four door sports car is a stretch. Perhaps a sporty sports sedan would be more correct?
It should be interesting to see if the RX8 really is successful in the marketplace or is "Squished Like a Bug".

Hercules

revhappy after this many pages, I think you'd have gotten it by now... most of us aren't magazine racers.

We just want to drive the car and see for myself. Myself included. Right now the G35C is top of my list because it matches my price and space requirements as well as the handling and power requirements.

Magazines have to translate a lot of emotions and biases into words. When I drive... I don't to have words to express what I feel. The G35C had its problems and I can put them on paper... but the Z4 that I drove was signifigantly slower and I can't remember all the bad things about it... because I was having such a blast driving it.

And that in the end, is what the difference will be.

revhappy

Oh come on Herc, please don't dismiss people as "magazine racers" who are a bit disappointed with the performance. This was a video of a race on a real track by a respected media outlet utilizing professional drivers. Maybe the results will be different on another track with other drivers, but THESE results are disappointing and are consistent with some of the comments in other reviews.

That being said if your choice is between the G35 and the RX8, I think the RX8 will be by far more fun and the better choice. Frankly, I'm not too impressed by the G35. I'm not questioning your decison. However, for me, given that I was cross-shopping the S2000 and the EVO, the RX8 has been a big disappointment in terms of performance.

Hercules

I'm not 'dismissing' anybody.

But even I have gotten worked up over reviews and then sit back and think... I haven't even driven the bloody thing yet!

Just keep in mind that magazines don't tell the whole story and you will never truly appreciate a car if you go by performance 'numbers.'

Get in the car and find out for yourself. That's what I will do and see if the RX-8 fits me.

rpm_pwr

It's a straight six not a V6.
It's 4 litre DOHC VCT motor with a factory Garrett GT35/40 full ball-bearing and FMIC.

It's not a "V6 sedan with a turbo kit" it's a very respectable sports sedan that doesnt pretent to be anything else. @ 40kAUS it's a bargain too.

-pete

Silverpgt94

I can only think of how different this discussion would have been
if the RX-8 would have placed better. Sure the competition was tough but many of us believed that with the RX-8's power to weight ratio and sporty handling it would be able to hold its own
against these heavyweights of speed. Unfortunately it was not the case in this event. At least in this event. I am a fan of Best Motoring and I believe them to be some of the best drivers in the world. Kurosawa which is probably the best and most serious of them all drove the S2000. I would have preferred to see him behind the wheel of the RX-8 but who knows maybe next time.
I have a very interesting video of Kurosawa driving the latest generation RX-7 against a Nissan R34-Vspec, NSX, NSX-Zer0, a Subaru Impreza sti, and I believe a Lancer Evo VI. So many all wheel drive and mid engine cars so many underrated in power. Yet the RX-7 came out on top with a very decisive victory and we are not talking about the more serious RZ model a good old RS got the job done. Even pulling away from the mighty Skyline on the straights. Yet other Best motoring volumes show different results. Sometimes placing last, other times placing better. Which now brings fourth my motto

Different tracks, different drivers, different days, different results.

Some say of you have said "oh my god, how can it be, it can't even beat an RSX. Booo hooo hooo the rotary is dead"
What you have to understand is that RSX has very little in common with the one released stateside. Honda is very proud of its Type R nameplate and have made numerous modifications to that Type R to ensure its that its R badge is warranted. That very same Type R has even bested the mighty S2000 on one occasion. Like I said, different track, different drivers, different days. The results will not always be the same. If you want to really raise an eyebrow over this it shouldn't be why the RX-8 came in last (not counting the Miata) The question should be why the Subaru Sti a car that is an all wheel driver monster, capable of 13 flat in the quarter and excess speeds of 155mph came in 3rd. To believe this car doesn't surpass the Japanese gentleman's agreement of 280hp is being naive. But this is an RX-8 forum so I guess maybe that question is out of line.

takahashi

Silverpgt94

What you said is very true - the drivers driving the S2K now should feel very much at home by now

Skyline Maniac

1) The RX-8 did hold its own on the track.

2) Like you said, the Integra Type R is a well respected track car. Perhaps the best FF track car on the market right now. It's slightly lighter, with 220hp, upgraded suspension and lightweight parts. I wouldn't confuse it with the American RSX.

3) That's not a WRX STi, just the new Subaru WRX. Had it been a STi, it would be leading the pack on Tsukuba.

4) The RX-8 is not meant to be a full blown sport car like the RX-7. A turbo RX-7 would probably have kicked *** against its competitions.

Here is a bit more info: (conversion from Japanese units) I thought this might be useful info for those of us magazine racers.

Name------------RX8 Skyline 350Z S2000 WRX Integra R
Weight (lbs)---2889 3374 3197 2778 2999 2602
Engine-------13B-MSP VQ35DE VQ35DE F20C EJ20 K20A
Displacement--654×2 3498 3498 1997 1994 1998
Max Power-------250 280 280 250 250 220
Max Torque------159 268 268 160 246 152
PW Ratio-------5.24 5.46 5.18 5.04 5.44 5.36
Tire----POTENZA RE040 RE040 RE040 RS-02 RE011 RE040
Price (USD)---23913 29478 31304 29826 21330 22522

chenpin

Thats not what you said earlier:

and this:
and finally:
So what do you really think about the RX-8?

BTW. I thought the S2000 was 240hp and 153lb-ft? Or is the one in Japan different? Also, is the 350Z in Japan REALLY 280hp? Or is it underrated like the GT-R?

MPester

Thanks for straighten me out on how pathetic the RX-8 is. I am going to get the EVO instead to dust the 350Z, G35, G35C.:o

chenpin

eh? Who was that directed to? If it was me, I'm not trying to straighten anyone out. I like the RX-8 and am eagerly waiting for delivery of my car.