Hercules

Amen to that

As per my 'bias', it *is* there, but because I believe that this car will drive the way I want it to when I get it. And in this thread at least, I've said as much.

SM hates Mazda and that's fine, I hate their customer service at least and their dealers are far subpar to Infiniti ones. However, this *is* in the end, an RX-8 forum. People come here to learn about the RX-8 and ask their questions.

And when you have me trying to answer them honestly, and Skyline to keep pointing out, "the RX-8 is okay in that area, but the G35C!..." well, serves no purpose and merely ignites a flame war.

And I've asked him before to stop. I believe the RX-8 lost to the G35C at the track, and that BM did an honest review. I never said that. I also said I wasn't educated about the whole Japanese scene, nor was I informed about BM. I asked for some information in that regard. My first posts in this thread consisted of only "Just wait and see when the car comes out."

And I've ALSO said that I have to see what the RX-8 will be like when it comes out. The G35C is my NUMBER ONE CHOICE right now. It handles very well, has plenty of power, seems light enough on its feet and the appearance of it is very muscular and sharp. However given what I look for in a car, it is LIKELY that the RX-8 will be more for me. And I've mentioned that as well. I prefer the light weight and nimble attitude the RX-8 would exude. Puts a bigger smile on my face.

I have not once 'dissed' Skyline. I merely made mention of his hatred of Mazda, the rotary engine, and pretty much all things RX-8. I reminded him of his underlying bias which shows itself in every post he makes. And I explained that by keeping that bias, it's going to be difficult to objectively learn anything about the car.

Keep in mind WHO got defensive when I merely suggested that the BM driver might have had an off day. My explanation was an inundating lashing about how BM was a great publication and that the drivers were somehow infallible.

Okay, whatever. I have been pretty reasonable on this topic, I have not posted false information, I did not show a bias for the RX-8, and overall, been pretty civil. I don't go onto Infiniti or Nissan forums, start threads that would be immediately sensed as trolling by posting information that would show THOSE cars in a bad light, especially when I'm a known buyer of an RX-8. I think the same courtesy applies here. If that video and explanation would have been posted on an Infiniti forum, believe me... it would have trickled back here. And then we can have a much more productive debate about it.

Am I saying the RX-8 would win, or even be closer to winning than BM showed? No. I merely asked for some information about the background of the Japan spec cars (which I am yet to get), with some *proof*, and the past history of BM videos which I have already recieved. Their results, as many people's, vary from video to video, driver to driver, and day to day. Which is also why I don't put much stock into those lap times and things.

I much rather look for the subjective viewpoints and even *some* objective ones that will give me insight as to how the car drives. And until I drive it, I will not make up my mind on which car I'm going to get.

In the end, I can look at the G35 fairly and see whether it's the car for me over the RX-8. Given what I look for in a car, it likely will fall short in a *few* areas. But Skyline looks at the RX-8 and looks at a car that's already subpar to the G35C, and he's quick to point it out every chance he gets.

Which begs the question... why does he post here?

Skyline Maniac

AMEN to that! Dammit, that's what I have been trying to say all along. Evaluate the car as a WHOLE FRIGGING PACKAGE, not just track performance or value. In the price range, not many cars (if any) can offer a combination of practicality, fun, sportiness, performance, and comfort as the RX-8. How many times have I mentioned the G35C can't carry people taller than 5'8 in tihe back seat? How many times have I said the transmission is not super smooth? THe G35C is not perfect, and if any of you have asked me about it, I'd tell you all about it. (Look under General Automobile forum under the G35C thread)

That's all there is. Why get your panties pinched in the butt just because the RX-8 didn't beat whatever car on Tsukuba track? 1'11 is a very respectable time, and i wish some of you give Mazda credit for that instead of wishing it being in the 1'05 or 1'09 range. Can a NA RX-7 or stock Integra pull 1'11 on Tsukuba? Yeah right~

RX-8 Zoomster

"Dammit, that's what I have been trying to say all along. Evaluate the car as a WHOLE FRIGGING PACKAGE, not just track performance or value. " . I beg to differ, but that's not what you have been saying all along. This is the FIRST time, I believe, you relayed this "change" of attitude. If you started posting on this thread with this kind of attitude, then you would not have been confronted by so many defensive-minded people.

"How many times have I mentioned the G35C can't carry people taller than 5'8 in tihe back seat? How many times have I said the transmission is not super smooth? THe G35C is not perfect, and if any of you have asked me about it, I'd tell you all about it." Not many times on this forum, but I appreciate you reminding people of the G35's shortcomings. And definately not on this thread until your last message. I guess you were too busy with the "... but, the G35 does this better".

You are right that each person has to evaluate what they want in the vehicle they want to buy and make their decision based on what is best for them, whether it is a RX-8, G35, or something else.

There is hope for you yet. Do I see a reformation taking place?

javahut

Yeah, what is he doing here? Oh yeah, right, he told us already... he's doing us a favor and providing valuable insight he learned from one BM show that we otherwise would be ignorant of. He's trying to save our souls from the Mazda machine.

Thank you oh great one Skyline Maniac for demonstrating to us lowly rotary lovers the error of our ways. You have been right, you are right, and you will continue to be right. G35 is the ULTIMATE!

So now that we're convinced... take your valuable, all knowing insight back to your own land. I don't think it's needed here anymore. You have bestowed enough of your knowledge & gifts to us. CLAIM VICTORY FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD AND RIGHT IN THE WORLD! So long! We will miss you!:p :D

Actually, it's quite amusing and interesting that there's a growing number of people who have bailed on the RX-8 (whatever the reason), or who already own other sports cars, and some of them apparently feel the need to defend their actions or previous decisions by bringing up (did I say "bringing up"?... more like brow beat us to death with) short comings of the 8 (all for our own good!) before ever having the opportunity to experience it!

downshift

This is one long thread indeed, but it felt like Jerry Springer. Of course, this is not uncommon in many other car forums, but I thought this one has a largely more mature audience based on the past posts that I've read.

It's obvious from this heated debate that everybody love their cars, whichever that is; and that means accepting their shortcomings and appreciating their good points.

You have no control over how someone loves this car or hates that car. People just see different things in different ways. So, let's all just sit back and enjoy that video. All the cars in there are fine cars and we should be lucky that we can afford any of them. Leave the trolls (if you see them as one, although Skyline does come up with good counterpoints occassionally) as they are. I'm sure everybody here is smart enough to decide or research on their own if the facts presented are credible or not.

javahut

I agree... totally!:D

Also, I think the gist of much of this thread is... I'm (we're) not over on the G35/Infiniti forum trying to provide (harass?) them with "valuable" information as to how "practical" or "soft" their car is based on how it performed in a specific situation on a particular day on a single television show.

Maximus

----> "As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market"

hmm...

click...

and here...

Hercules

A quote of note...

bbertha37

I wonder what kind of response this would get on FA.

jonalan

Now, now, let's not stoop to their level.

Jimmylove

Does anyone have a link to the FULL 5 lap battle?

bbertha37

I was not implying that we should post that on FA. I was just curious as to what kind of responses we would get. Would they realize that the Renesis is a truly great engine, or would they continue the RX-8 hate-fest?

Skyline Maniac

The Engine of the Year info was posted on FA, do a search there and you'll see.

Jimmylove: The full 5 lap battle is pretty much what you see on the 1 minute clip. The S2k passed the RX-8 at 1st straight, G35C and WRX passed it on 2nd straight. Integra R passed RX-8 on the 3rd lap, and that's about it. The RX-8 stayed with its competitors very well in the infields, but loses out on the straights. I'd rip it and post it here, but not many people seem interested. Perhaps I'll rip the full video when I get a better source and translation. As it stands, the low quality video is not really worthwhile. There are also videos of the RX-8 on the mountain pass compared to the RX-7 and Miata, also the Cosmos and first gen RX-7 clips. I am sure Rotary fans would find the video worthwhile.

I still don't quite understand how this whole thread was taken as RX-8 bashing~ afterall, I had nothing to do with the BM testing of their cars in Japan. Sounds like a bunch of bitter people upset over the first video tape with production RX-8 against it's competitors. Come on people, it's not like 1'11 is bad time on Tsukuba.

btw: javahut, you don't really need to post on the FA post, Hercules has done a decent job at that. (except he's not quite as curteous on other forums) He was quite hyper over the C&D article in the past. Anyhow, people on FA don't seem to give a rats *** about the video..... the result wasn't that surprising.

bbertha37

Well, I checked the "Engine of the Year" thread at FA, and what do ya know, our good friend SM decided to weigh in his opinion. Nothing short of what I expected:

Thank you for informing us about the engine award. I will surely keep that in mind when I watch the video of the RX-8 getting its *** kicked on the track by the S2000, 350Z, Integra R, Subaru WRX, and G35C. I'll also laugh my *** off when the RX-8 driver screams "I GOT NO POWER!!!!"

NA Rotary is for suckers, Turbo Rotary is for..... well, suckers. If you like the rotary that much, then buy a RX-8 and enjoy.

I'd bet if Toyota, Honda or Nissan were to develope rotary engines, they'd be a lot better than the Mazda version.

If you look at the gas milage, torque figure and practicality, Renesis will begin to look like another Mazda gimmick technology like the abandoned Miller Cycle engine.



Why do you even try to "sugar coat" the act you play here? Go for the gold, baby! You know you hate Mazda and the RX-8. Let it show!

bbertha37

Are you on crazy pill? If anyone considers getting a Millenia *aka. Mazda luxury car!?* then you need to check yourself into rehab. A Mazda luxury car is like getting a lobster dinner from 7-11, or buying a engagement ring from 99 cent store. Pleeeeeeeze~ People don't buy Millenia for very good reasons, mostly because the general public is still fairly intelligent.

if it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.

Unfortunately, we are talking about a Mazda. So NO, it can't be a great car, because it's a Mazda.

Mazda sucks, please stay away for your own sake. Maybe wait to see if Ford would make their version of the RX-8 (New Cougar 2+2?) and market it in the US. I much rather buy a Ford than Mazda.

As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.

We don't need an automobile engineer to know the VQ35DE is a superior engine to the Renesis (unless the Renesis only cost like $2000 to build, then I'd give in to the econo factor) I wonder why 99.9% of the cars in the world are using piston engine, and only Mazda uses rotary? Hmmmm~~ That's right, cuz that's the only thing they got! Gimmicks!


Preach on, brother! Preach on!

Winning

Well put it this way, rotary has less power than 350Z engine, and almost half its torque. According to C&D and BM the car has a very similar lap time, and only lose in the straights. Doesn't it say something about the RX8 handling? I know we has not test driven the car but I am pretty sure we are getting a proper sports car, not just a "sporty" car.

Just can't imagine the new RX7 with more power, more torque less weight, wider tires and better suspension. To make a two seater with FE (RX8) platform will cut down a lot of weight for sure.

Digisan

Stop jacking all over his thread.

And bbertha37 please STFU, you have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the history of the rotary before you mouth off!

zoom44

Digi, i can't tell from the context, who was that directed at?

and wasn't bertha being sarcastic when he made his"preach on"statement following his SM quote from FA?

bbertha37

Dude, if you didn't notice it, I was posting some of SkylineManiac's outlandish posts from FreshAlloy, of which I find completely ridiculous. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. My "Preach On" comment might've thrown you off as well if you couldn't pick up the sarcasm. And to respond, I am fully aware of the history of the rotary, and it is for that reason that I have put so much faith in pre-ordering an RX-8 and have spent so many sleepless nights thinking about my RX-8 that should be here in in a month's time. Sorry for the misunderstanding if there was any. Cheers and Zoom-Zoom!

Superfan

You can bash the rotary all you want but the bottom line is that Mazda got it to work reliably. Don't bring up the FD because every one knows the cooling system is to blame for its defects. Mazda had allot of heart to bet the farm on the rotary early on and again now with it's reintroduction to the US market. They also have a solid belief in proving their innovations on the race track. Where's the lemans trophy that Nissan won with the VQ? Right, they don't have one. Neither does Toyota, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Honda, etc. Think about all the restrictions that have been placed on Rotary powered cars over the years (sandbagging cars, intake diameters). At times, even banned from circuits. Why all the restrictions if it wasn't a viable race engine. I don't feel like getting into the Miller Cycle Millennia engine, but it definitely wasn't a gimmick. If you want to know what a real gimmick is look at how Nissan has shoehorned the beloved VQ into everything except for a Sentra. Yeah, real creative! Mazda makes unconventional cars for unconventional people. In a couple of weeks we'll be getting our RX-8's with their hand built engines that were designed by engineers that did much of the R&D on their own time.

RX-8 Zoomster

Digisan,

Not that I have to defend him, but.... Bbertha37 was QUOTING everything that SkylineMechanic was saying on the Fresh Alloy forum about Mazda, the RX-8 and the rotary engine. And making a SARCASTIC remark when he told Sky to preach on.

In all due respect, maybe you need to shutup and learn what bbertha37 was trying to convey, before accusing him. All the Mazda and rotary badmouthing was done by SkylineMechanic on the FreshAlloy forum.

In defense of Skyline, he has "behaved" himself here to a great degree. He is trying to be a good boy.

chenpin

Gimmick? Nissan's definition of FM. I still think its something the marketing people made up cuz they couldn't get the engine fully behind the axle. Regardless, the cars still perform well, but why did they have to call it FM? RX-8, thats a real Front-Midship.

RX-8 Zoomster

Gimmick? Marketing ploy? Maybe, but in Infiniti's defense, I do believe the V35Q's "center of gravity" sits behind the front axle, hence why they do have some right to call it a Front-Midship.

Correct me if I'm wrong. At least ask Skyline Mechanic, our resident G35 "fanatic". He would be able to give us the history of Infiniti's Front-Midship design.

takahashi

He is like my Australian friend who has orgasm when he heard there is a Ford Turbo XR6 which is just a V6 sedan with Turbo kit.

I wonder what bbertha37 drives????

RX-8 Zoomster

What difference does it make what he drives.

By the way, do you still drive that tricycle we seen you with from your first Nerd movie?