mazdafan1892

Hey guys please help, my mechanic replaced the coils, wires and spark plugs on my 05 Rx8. They said the car doesn't have much longer. They said water or antifreeze is getting into where the spark plugs are. Please see the attachment. They had mentioned the head gasket. I thought Rx8 doesn't have a gasket. Please help with advise.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

not a head gasket but a coolant seal in between the rotor housings and irons. hard to tell if theres antifreeze on the plugs from your pics tho. does your exhaust smell sweet and look white? get a test done to confirm if you are getting combustion gases in your coolant (any shop can do this its not rotary specific). if you are you will need a rebuild or reman engine

UnknownJinX

Some brown deposit is normal if the spark plugs are in the engine for a while, especially if you premix.

Is your coolant level dropping?

mazdafan1892

Hi UnknownJinX, a couple of weeks ago I had to fill the coolant. It came up low but it I think I havent had to fill it in a couple of years since. Though I have had coolant issues in the past. A couple of years ago Mazda replaced the coolant system. The radiator and the resiviuor tank when holds the coolant. Also not long after that I was leaking coolant they told me I need a hose replaced, which was cheap. Also I think the tank cap was also changed too. Its been like 3 years ago maybe longer since I had the plugs, coils and wires changed. I can't wait to have that coolant test done this weekend. Fingers crossed. Can't really afford another car right now plus, I dont want to give up my car .

I think the coolant isn't dropping though and I don't premix. What about water? He kept saying water could be the issue getting in there. I had the engine bay detailed like a year or so ago.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Find a different mechanic, you cant diagnose a coolant leak by looking at spark plugs. The system needs to be pressure tested and the coolant needs to be hydrocarbon tested.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Coolant only drops from a leak or a boil over, it can drop very slightly over many years but its usually not enough to warrant adding fluid.

Occasionally if a system was replaced and not done so correctly an air bubble can get trapped and eventually work itself free this is a rare issue and often only occurs after a few months of driving.

mazdafan1892

Hey guys well...idk the car is running well but I am still worried. I sent the spark plug pictures to the dealership and they said they look fine and NEEDED to be changed. I am just worried about the coolant or water issue. Not 100% sure what my mechanic said. He talks so fast but I mentioned to him today the test that Mazda was mentioning. I think its a type of leak test where they would need to get a machine or have a machine. Idk but I mentioned to them that I would use the dye tosee if there are any coolant leaks. They said if I see any coolant leaks to notify them right away. Another dealership said they would need to do a pressure test which would take 3 hours which sounds like bs. I am not sure about the water part. Could that be the water pump? ???

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Please see my previous reply. The coolant system needs to be pressure tested and the coolant itself needs to be tested for hydrocarbons.

mazdafan1892

Thank you for replying shadycrew. I have been checking and checking. I called Mazda and they told me too a coolant pressure test and a compression test would be necessary BUT heres the deal. My mechanic a mechanic of 47 years with his crew and in concert with a Certified Mazda mechanic he knows said NOT to do a pressure test cause it will blow things up. I forget which part he was talking about will blow. He said the liquid is either coming from the head gasket or the intake manifold. I told him that there is no head gasket and explained. He said trust me I know, they will pressure test it, it will blow and then they will charge you. The engine is like 2 years old from the dealership. I had to get a reman engine. Also and I just remembered this, like 2 weeks ago I got a check engine light with a code from the manifold intake. Trying to find the code. It went away since we changed the coils, wires and spark plugs. Scared and not sure what to do. I am going to dig for that code. I think I made a recent post about it. Thanks again in advance for all the comments and would appreciate any more input. Best! Also I am buying that hydrocarbon combustion leak tester test kit from the store to test the exhaust fumes.

Edit: I think the code that was present two weeks ago was P2070.

UnknownJinX

He can be a mechanic of 100 years, but if he hasn't worked on rotaries, his advice is beyond useless. Just the head gasket statement will make me go, "Yep, we are done here. Have a good one."

Even on piston engined cars, I don't know how a coolant pressure test will blow cars up when done properly. All coolant systems see some pressure and is designed to hold it.

Sure, if you pump it to like 20+psi, there might be damage, but if you keep it to about 10 psi, nothing will be damaged.

Edit: it's actually 18 psi for an RX-8. Don't go above that and you will be fine.

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...essure-250360/

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

There is no need to pressurise it too high..
It's more of a leak down test anyway unless there is a big leak that will spew coolant

Check the pressure cap as well... sometimes they fail and will dump.coolant before it gets pressurized to regular operating pressure and you can loose coolant that way through the overflow

mazdafan1892

Thanks again for the reply. I am still leading with caution. I have an idea. I found some old UV dye for the coolant. As soon as I find the glasses and UV stick I will test it to see if I can track the coolant travel. Also I am trying to get that hydrocarbon combustion test kit. I think I will do that first to test the exhaust gases from the coolant.

I think the dealership replaced the cap after trying an after market cap a few years ago. The dealership tech also said that with this car it cant do the the leak down test machine for whatever reason I forget. Only a compression test or a coolant pressure test.

Thanks so much for the replies.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Did he say why? It makes absolutely no sense. There is no difference in the design of the cooling system between a rotary and a piston engine. They both pressurize the coolant to about 1 bar to increase the boiling point... the only difference is in the type of seals that seal the combustion chambers from the rest of the system. In a rotary there are 8 o rings that act as inner and outer coolant seal...
And in a piston engine it is the head gasket.

In both motors the combustion pressure is much higher than the pressure you could ever pump up the cooling system too. The only things you can damage are the hoses and water pump seals.. and maybe the plastic end tanks on the rad if they are getting old and brittle

And even that is a stretch... if you blow up a hose at 18-20 psi it wasn't long for the world and you would have had a nasty failure. Same for the radiator...
.

mazdafan1892

To be honest I dont remember I think he was mentioning something about internal vs external leaks. Sigh this sucks, not to complain but after replacing the engine and putting TONS of money into the car I may have this potential issue. I am still skeptical as rotaries are tricky and the car is running fine. Its really hard to tell if its low on antifreeze. Doesn't help that the coolant tank is not transparent to see the fluid color inside. I know there is a level F on the side but not easy to see. I do see white smoke when starting for a bit but I am pretty sure it's condensation. Idk since I had it I've had to change the;

Intake Manifold Solenoid Valves
Cat - Was under warruntee
Reman Engine
Radiator and coolant system
Ventilation kit
Rotars/Pads
Wheels
Wipers
Coils, Spark Plugs, Wires
Gas Cap
Coolant Cap
AC Blower
Crash Pad - Mazda paid half
Tire Sensors
Batteries
Coolant Hoses
Differential Oil Change
Sway Bars
Engine Mounts
Fuel Pump mazda paid for
Oring recall
Fuses
Filters Air and Cabin
Oil Changes
Alignment
Tune up
Battery pos and negative parts replaced
Oxygen sensor
Remote Start
airbags-recall
2 defloods on older engine

Thats all I can remember for now.

mazdafan1892

Also was just thinking. I had my engine bay detailed like 6 months + ago. Could the water have gotten in there from them spraying off the engine bay? That may be another possibility.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Any water in the engine bay will have evaporated in 6 months

Fill the overflow bottle up until it is full and you can see it... let it run for a while and look for lots of small bubbles in the coolant. If you have them you likely have an internal coolant leak on the compression side of the motor. If you have one on the intake side you will likely get a lot of white smoke... even when the car has been running for a while. The plugs usually get a greenish buildup on them as well....

I cant remember your symptoms.... is it leaking or is coolant just disappearing?

mazdafan1892

Hi Dannobre, thank you very much for the reply. I will check it out cold first thing in the morning. As far as symptoms I see white smoke when I turn the car on but after 10 min I believe its gone. I am mostly worried cause my mechanic and the mechanics he works with says I am screwed. We recently changed the spark plugs, coils and wires, its been a while since they were changed, at least 3 years. Maybe they were on their fourth year. I had that p2070 code with a steady engine light but it went away not too long before I had the spark plugs, coils and wires changed. Car seems to be running okay. Going to to try what you said in the morning and report back. My mechanic checked with a Mazda technician and he said under no circumstances do not do ANY pressure test, it will blow something. I am not sure if he meant the seals or whatever. I am thinking of just running with it praying its okay and saving some money.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure what the mechanic is talking about. The pressure test tests up to the pressure the system is supposed to handle when hot. If it blows something, probably best it blows during the test and not while driving? That's like saying "under no circumstances drive your car, you could break something"

UnknownJinX

If you open that link I posted earlier and scroll down, it has the FSM procedure for it laid out. That's as factory as it can get.

I am pretty sure a bunch of people have done this test before. I know I have after I purchased the car. Never blew anything up with the pressure test. Like everyone is saying, the cooling system is supposed to be able to handle some pressure.

Just judging from the info you give me, this is not someone I would want my car near. Even the 99 Corolla econobox I had before to practice manual on deserves someone more knowledgeable.

How thick is the smoke? Is it more like a vapour? Some steam from condensation is perfectly normal, but I am not sure if it will last for 10 minutes.

mazdafan1892

What's up guys, so the saga continues...I agree with you guys on the mechanic issue but beggars can't be choosers. To find a good mechanic or even a rotary mechanic is hard. Dannobre I did what you said, I tried filling the over flow bottle up until I could see it. Its now a little higher than the F fill line. No bubbles when starting. There was white smoke coming from the exhaust pipes but a family member of mine has a chevy cruze with one exhaust pipe and their exhaust white smoke was thicker white and it was cold outside. The smoke eventually went away. No smoke when turning over an hour later. I discovered something though...

I had the engine replaced with all the other stuff I had done with it. I BET, I am not sure but I bet they didn't replace the spark plugs at the time. I also had the coolant leak where Mazda had to replace a hose. I have to check my receipts regarding the dates but I am wondering if the spill was from the old engine and they left the spark plugs from the older engine in the car. Idk but its odd that I had to add some coolant in like last month. Maybe it just dipped a little low after a long period of time and the light came up. I don't know. IF there is a problem then I think it is coming from the intake side.

I also noticed maybe unrelated, near the intake manifold section, I hear a clicking in the engine bay every few min with the heat on.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

My coolant lines leak fairly often because I switched to worm gear clamps. I need to re-tighten them every year or so. Whats your location I might be able to help or find you a more competent mechanic the guy you are working with is in over his head.

Bitdisaster

What is the best aftermarket stereo to put in a 2009 R3?

DartzIRL

It's more of a Does Anybody Else have this issue - it's not serious enough to merit a HALP! Thread.

The car cold-starts fine. It hot-starts fine. But if left to sit for an hour or two to cool down, it struggles. It's like trying to started a carburretted bike without choke. It's a 'problem' that appearrs to be independant of the engine. It had an engine replacement last year - and it behaved the exact same way immediately afterwards. It did it for 4 years after I bought it. Did it for a year after an engine swap. It doesn't appearr to be related to the engine in any way.
I suspect a tuning issue - either the engine isn't going into it's cold start routine when it should and is underfuelling - or something more bizarre.


Idle is smooth. Rolls well.
Fuel trims are between +7 and +10 when cruising. But it varies depending on fuel used.
Coolant loss occurs but is low - looks like a seep from a hose.
Oil is clean. Oil filler especially (Old engine would always cream itself, this one doesn't)
Burns oil at a decent rate.
Smoke free.

It's more of a, is this a normal sort of behaviour? Does anyone elses do this? What's different in an engine that's ten degrees above ambient, compared to one at ambient?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

+10 long term or short term trim?
Coolant loss, do you mean you can see coolant outside the engine, or it's being lost inside?
Age of ignition coils/spark plugs?
What intake is on there?

DartzIRL

Long Term. Was wondering if it was a vacuum leak, but the 'problem' doesn't seem to be related to fuel trims. Fuel Trim seems to more vary with what it's been fuelled with.
Coolant loss - it's probably a seep from a hose. There's no smoke, no bubbles and it did leak after the engine swap, but was tightened up. It's negligeable - taking about 6k to drop from max to min. Engine oil is clean
Coils have 70k on them. Are D585's. Engine's been remapped for dwell times. It ran happily on these with a broken sparkplug and its bits flinging around inside, so I doubt it's ignition.
Plugs have 14k on them. Less than a year old.

The engine was bought with a recent compression test, and good compression a year ago. It was inspected by a specialist on install and the crank bearings were replaced since it was out and they could be accessed. The engine's as good as it can be - and is running better than the last engine did when I bought the car originally.

This thing has been consistant, even as all of the above have changed and varied through the life of the engine. Or both engines.

When cranked, it sounds like a bad hot-start, firing once or twice and dropping back onto the starter, taking forever to catch, stumbling, and occasionally backfiring hard when it does. When it lights off it's fine. Hot and 6-8 hour cold starts are fine. 1-2 hours after shutdown is the worst - and always has been. No matter what else changes with the car. The only consistency is the time window.