BaronVonBigmeat

I wonder which was harder to develop, the part that fools the factory ECU, or the air/fuel computer? Surely the ECU fooler. What happens if the ECU throws a bunch of cels though, I mean the A/C, radio, ABS, airbags, etc. don't quit working, do they? (I assume Mazda wouldn't design a car that shuts off safety features if some engine wires came loose somehow.) You just have to deal with a computer that tattles on you when the dealer plugs in, right? Can you just clear the cels before you go in to the dealer?

davefzr

It's not a matter of clearing the CEL's. Mazda knows if another computer system is hookded up to the car.. Trust me They asked if I had such a device on my car....

therm8

Quote please...

Who're you talking too??? I hope it's not Richard...

Everyone knows you aren't paying for the electronics, but a 1700% markup for R&D doesn't fit everyone's budget. Personally I'd rather sell 50 @ $1000 than 20 @ $2000, but that's just me. And a lot more people can justify spending $1000.

RXhusker

I personally doubt he is working with Maurice -- Scott indicated that he intended to handle all distribution through Mazsport.

My impression is that the rev limiter can be controlled. Scott said he set his at 9250k.

I don't think their marketing plan is calling for selling 20 units. He indicated that this is the first production run. In otherwords -- he is outlaying the initial cash for 25 units. Doesn't everyone remember the huge fiasco Maurice ran into when he released the CZ -- huge cash outlays for production -- production delays -- etc. I think he is wise having a reasonable first production run.

In our wonderful free market economy price is always a function of supply and demand. Being first to market always means you can charge a premium. If others are able to follow with a desirable product then the price will drop.

For me personally -- I love the extra power from the GReddy turbo but have been frustrated with the emanage. I want something that will really work to get the most out of the GReddy (smooth -- reliable -- ~300whp) and am willing to spend what Mazsport is asking to get it. Others may not think the cost/benefit is favorable and won't get it.

therm8

I wasn't implying that they only wanted to sell 20 units . It was an example. I would also much rather sell 5000 units at $1000 vice 2000 at $2000. Though supply and demand have much to do with price, price ultimately has more to do with setting the demand for a product. People buy what they can afford/justify. At $1000, you'd sell many more, than at $1800. Being first to market, does have its disadvantages, in that all the R&D is new. However, one could simply buy the product, reverse engineer it, and bring it to market at hundreds less. The price leaves a great margin for profiteers.

I'm not knocking the product in any way. In fact this is a great step forward for this car. But now that it's been done, competitors or potential competitors have it easy, and $1800 isn't going to cut it for very long. I'd personally rather grab as many customers as possible, before competition hits the market. It's all philosophical financial analysis anyway, they'll do what they feel is best for them.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Offtopic

Hey Scott, I was thinking about temps this week, and wondered what the oil temp should be under cruising and under load. Its funny how last winter people were having oil frothing dipsticks, and now they are having engine meltdowns. Since you have your finger on the pulse of the Renesis, do you think the engine temps are a little out of control right now?

Are the water jackets big enough for USA summers? Is the radiator large enough for proper heat transfer? The JDM cars are on an island in the Pacific, so the temperature of Vegas must have been an unknown to them.

Being an engineer myself, I was looking at the heat transfer of all the components. Is the Renesis suffering from the lack of transfer?

If you unleash the beast within with the Interceptor-X, surely the car will run leaner, produce more power, and produce more heat. We need cooling now, and we need it under control. I don't want to see this rotary suffer heat problems.

Rasputin

Brands of the Ford group have access to the Arizona Proving Ground in Yucca, where they complete hot tests. Even Europe-only models (like Fiesta) are tested there.

Psylence

No, $1700 might not fit everyones budget. But neither will a $6000 blower kit. If you are interested in doing things "on the cheap" either don't modify the car, or wait till it has been out for at least 5 years.

Wanna be ahead of the curve, you gotta pay to play. Sell cheaply to many? Sell to the hardcore first? It sounds like a lot of cash.. but I'd pay $1700 for the ability to make my car run properly... hell, Mazda should buy these for us! Griping about the price someone else charges for the gear while saying "I could have done it last year for cheaper" is nothing more then fresh "whine" made from sour grapes

Hey, maybe you could contact Mazsport and see if they'll sell you a box of parts with no programming or coding at all on the chips for $100. And then YOU can try and make it work as well as theirs with no support, and no input from them Tell me, how much is YOUR time worth?

RXhusker

It is so easy to forget the actual costs of putting out a new product or of running a business. Patent fees, attorney costs, marketing costs, packaging costs, warranty costs, employee, etc. etc.. The people who don't make it are the ones who fail to factor all of these into their business plans. As a very general rule you had better have a three times cost markup to actually make any money at the end of the day. In my business product markup is a minimum of 3X and people 2X -- that is break-even pricing.

Price would determine demand to a great degree if this were a commodity item or the market was HUGE. Last I checked neither were the case for an RX-8 FI specific ecu controller. This is a very niche product for a very small market.

devious12

good job hope this solves all of the issues.

Psylence

Exactly, RXhusker! In my business we are constantly developing new product and software.. and DAMN its costly. Especially the software end!
Now if only my wife's WRX didnt need new brakes I'd be in line for this ecu. Gonna have to wait for round 2 iI think

Mazsport

Please go to Mazsport's subforum to read round 2 of more Q & A posted. More to come. Thanks for your support and patience.

epitrochoid

always remember this when it comes to cars and modifications:

-Fast
-Cheap
-Pretty

Pick Two.

mike1324a

Great job with your product Mazsport, i cant wait for your Greddy kit upgrade 300+ whp is what we have been waiting for!

Mazsport

Round 3 is available at our subforum for you.

Mazsport Q & A # 3 https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...8&page=2&pp=15

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

First of all I am not bad mouthing Mazsport, they seem like nice people and the company has a good reputation. All I am saying is that for my purpose I cannot justify the price. It may be fine for the end user who is buying just one and gets the advantage of the builder work in pretuning it. If that guy needs that then he gets what he needs. My needs are different. First of all I will be buying many and adding it to my product. Therefore I will be the one who gets all the customer interface, good or bad. If there is a problem I will be getting the call. I will be the one developing the maps and trying to keep the units in the field running safely.

Also I'm not intersested in doing thing on the cheap. You can see this in all my products. We use the best matirial for the job and reject more stuff in QC then anyone else would. We buy the best machines and keep all the tooling up to new. We don't go to the cheapest vendor for our sub work either. If I wanted to just skate by for profit my supercharger would be out there already. But since I like the best of things we are spending a long time developing the areodynamics at great cost.

How many vendors go out and buy a new Rx8 of their own to do the development on. One of the few things I'm not is cheap. I drive my partner crazy with that.

I don't want to buy the parts and build it myself, I only will do that if I can't get something in the marketplace. Next I didn't say that I could have done it a year ago for less. I said if I had to build it it would delay my work so much longer and should have started it a year ago. I have no desire to be in the ECU buisness, that's not my bag. I'm the one who wants a Weber and distributor.

As for what my time is worth it seems nothing so there is no problem. Both my partner and I are engineers so the company spends nothing on engineering. We get to work all the hours we want. And we do it for free. We have the highest ratio of engineering staff to shop personel of any company in the buisness.

So now I will go drink some "whine".

rotarygod

To sum that up, this is a great product but from a cost standpoint it's not feasible to include it with the supercharger.

loube

I have driven the test vehicle that has the Interceptor-x a few times and let me say WOW !!!!!!!!!!! It really seems like a different car compared to mine. I have posted a few times on these forums looking for answers to my greddy turbo problems and like everyone else was really frustrated. I unfortunately don't have the time, patience or knowledge to fix the issues i had after i had the greddy turbo installed. I will say that being an early adopter has cost me a lot of money because i have been looking for the answer to fix the one thing that has troubled me the most driveability. The one thing you don't get to see on the Video is the 100 fold improvement in driveability. Scott at first attempted to fix my greddy issues by tuning the emanage and spent much time doing it to no avail. I think after seeing my issues in real life and also seeing the numerous posts on this forum, he decided to try and do it better. I don't know how most people add or remove value to a product, but to me a product that has convinced me to keep my turbo is priceless. I bought this car to drive and routinely put 150 miles a day on the vehicle so driveability along with the performance is very important. Just my 2 cents.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

That's the best $.02 I have read here

adrian-1

That's what I've been waiting to hear. So are all the issues below gone?
- fluctuating idle
- intermitent bogging (transition from vac to boost)
- backfiring (test car has a midpipe, correct?)

The other nice thing about this unit is since it controls all the fuel, the LTFT won't adjust the fuel like the stock ECU. I've been resetting my battery every other week to stop this from messing up my tuned map.

drifter_d

I second Loube's sentiments. Can't wait to get this and see the improvements first-hand.

dd sends...

loube

I don't really have a problem with the way the car idles.
I have terrible bogging issues mostly off the line.
My car backfires something fierce.

I will be posting my car's results as soon as my unit gets put in this week.

davefzr

Wow.. That is great news and I agree that is the best .02 cents I have heard as well. This product is going to offer a lot for us and I cant wait to hear your impressions after the EMS is installed and you have had some time to drive with it. That to me will be the best advertising going for them.

The video wasnt all that bad though Hmmm... AWESOME!

Labop

Hey scud, glad to hear you're doing well and coming back soon. Can't wait to see the new mods your 8 has been getting in your absence, but it could be a while. I might be trading locations with you. I'll know more next week.

AvatarQAZ

Sounds like a possible marriage to me Mr. Paul. Surely this is something that the public does desire. An option like this coupled with your FI solution is what people see at the peak of the mountain for their power gains and overall car presentation.

A 1600+ price gain in your solution with the added on ECU does put it out of what you want to deliver to the public in terms of affordability. Is it an option though? I am sure Mazsport will be more than willing to sell to you at a price that will net them profit as well as keep your solution within a reasonable price range.

Granted, for Mazsport it means a loss in potential profit. But with all the expectations and people that are already online with your product, it makes perfect sense for Mazsport in terms of possible volume of sales to be able to turn a profit. Already there is debate in price that will surely detour people from buying the unit seperately. People already KNOW they are going to be with your product as soon as they can grab it off the shelf. If mazsport can offer to you the ECU at a reasonable price (I would be willing to pay $1000 extra on top of your solution) as a coupled deal with the FI, doesnt it make perfect sense for both parties (yourself and Mazsport?)

You could offer to the public two different choices: one with and one without.

Of course, I am no businessman and surely do not fully understand the inner workings associated with a 'marriage' such as this. But from a common sense standpoint, it surely works.