MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, if that was a "choice", it is pretty asinine.

ninjajim4

iTrader: (4)

pretty ironic actually that you would find the thread misapplied and the subsequent discussion irrelevant.

but then, given that you don't consider customer service a component in any way of what you do, what else is to be expected...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

How so? The customer started a "bad guy" thread.
Turns out the customer made a mistake.

How is it relevant?

Flashwing

My head hurts.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

Back to work!!!

btw 'grats on getting things crankin, and the snail

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

This is a really bad example. You were an employee working under specific directions on how and when to help the user community.

Jeff's tuning service is run and operated by him. All standards and procedures on how to engage and interact with him are based on how he feels it is best to operate his company.

Huge difference being the owner and being the employee.

ninjajim4

iTrader: (4)

well, the thread is about 'problems' with you. the customer made a mistake. how did you help him to resolve it? ignore him for months on end until he needed to create this thread in order to get a response? what would you do if he never did that? simply never address him at all? do you give their money back, given that you never perform their service? this is the nature of doing business. this is what i am talking about. it's not a battle. it's not about who's right and who's wrong.


if you see what i am currently talking to MM about just above, you'll see, again, that this is an area where i feel MM is lacking, currently. whereas, again, BHR is not. others have posted to the same effect. you may have taken steps, in private or publicly, to improve his level of service, but threads like these continue to persist, and it would seem his attitude is unchanged. i never said you should put your dirty laundry out there, but i also don't think it's worthy of defense.

and truthfully, there are two sides of the coin. if you don't think you should be calling out your colleague in public, then one would think you shouldn't be constantly defending them either, unless you want the appearance of bias

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

So, clearly, you have no idea how I actually deal with problems like this nor have you read the instructions that I send out with every submission - correct or incorrect.
So, like most of the people in this thread - and, indeed, on this site - you are just talking off the top of your head with no knowledge, experience, original ideas, data, information or well formed opinions. Are you a customer of mine? Do you have a stake in this? Do you even know what is involved or what the compensation is? You are a classic troll.
So, keep pontificating - I'm sure your audience awaits.

ninjajim4

iTrader: (4)

so what's the answer to what i asked you? what's inaccurate in what i asked you, based on what we've seen in the pages of this thread? it seems clear to me how you do business, based on what's been said in this thread and others. your communication skills range from poor to nil, except seemingly in threads where anyone has the audacity to criticize you. in fact, if you'll notice, the moment you stated that customer service has no relevance in anything you do was the moment i stopped quoting and responding to you. you picked up the ball again, about things that weren't even directed at you. but i'm ignorant. by all means enlighten the troll.

i've said since the beginning i have no stake whatsoever in this. that's no secret. that's little to do with my relevance and more so with my objectivity. you're absolutely right in that i am speaking in very broad strokes, very general terms, and the notions of good business practices i am espousing are not ground breaking or original in any way.

you're incorrect in that i have no experience, well formed opinions, and am trolling, however. feel free to express your condescending dismissiveness -- we've already seen how freely you dole that out, even when dead wrong.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I'm not the person who invoked a vendor sticky thread process and then conveniently chose when not to apply it. You have a choice to request that the thread be closed, at which point it will be locked form any future bumps. Since you have instead chosen to bump the thread you may want to avoid calling the kettle black.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I'll just address this and, if you are a thinking individual, you will put it together:

How do you know this? From threads started by 1, 2, 7 people out of nearly eight hundred? Do you think the other 793 people are suffering from "poor to nil" communication?

Hmm. Yet another in a long line of catastrophically gullible folk...

I just don't see where this thread (illogically) goes from the specific to the general.

Obviously, bumping threads like this one drums up a LOT of business for me or I wouldn't bother...

ninjajim4

iTrader: (4)

do we really have to get into the whole what does it mean to know something? i haven't seen you directly answer anything i asked you. we heard the OP's side, so what's yours? why did it take this individual months to get in touch with you, after multiple attempts, resorting finally to making this thread in the first place? did you drop the ball? did you simply disregard his messages, because he didn't contact you in the format you would prefer or weren't sure who he was? what's the rationale? this particular instance is an example of a real problem, regardless of how many happy customers you have. i am genuinely curious.

i don't get you. you proudly proclaim post after post that it's your way or the highway, and yet when someone suggests you take a different approach, then suddenly they have no idea what you do or how you do things. tragically misunderstood. targeted by trolls. like i said already, seems like there was little left to say after you made your stance on customer service clear. i don't know why you're retreating from that now.

hard to argue with any of this... i guess we are in agreement after all

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

His problem was the same as the few others that have popped up along here:

He didn't follow the directions.

Also, more to the point, it didn't take months for him to "get in touch with me" - his submission was not even a month old when he panicked. My first hint that there was anything going on was on December 6th.
Even if his submission was "3 months old" at the time he started complaining, it would have been a submission on a base file that was sent more than 6 months after his Calibration Service began.
Though I seldom cut a customer off at the 6 month limit, sending your first submission in after your service should have expired is pretty brash.

Its just another example of customer "time dilation".

Just a few months after purchasing the AccessPORT (but still several months before his first submission), he started e-mailing me at my personal e-mail address.
Imagine you have a job. Now, imagine that your customers start calling you at home, after hours, to ask you how to do your job.

I suggest you read THIS THREAD before you go any further in this discussion and then read THIS THREAD.

You will find them enlightening.

No one that follows the instructions gets ignored. The instructions are, essentially, very simple. The "Instructions Instructions" actually end up making it sound more complicated than it really is.
Worst case scenario, he could have "pulled the cord" and checked out his calibration folder where his updates are located.

Tell me - why is it that you expect me to lavish some fawning respect on people that don't even demonstrate a modicum of respect for my process?

Honestly, I don't really feel wonderful about beating on jDt! about all of this, but if you are going to demonstrate these sort of behaviors and then start a "bad-guy" thread because I don't mop your brow and serve you herbal tea to soothe your "Instructions Instructions" induced vapors, you are fair game.

The Custom Calibration Service is a $99 surcharge on the regular price of the AccessPORT. Go get someone else to tune your RX-8 for $99. Maybe they will hold your hand. I doubt it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Triple your price get less customers but hold their hands (even when the f up) so they at least feel like they are getting service .

The whole thing would work better ............. IMO

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I've already shot myself in the foot on that.
I can't up the price and then offer better service to new customers and leave the old customers in the lurch.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

You could have two services at different price points-

1/The platinum service : garantees your calibration within x days ......

2/The service for the great unwashed : Take it up the **** and be greatfull for what ever you get .

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Posts have been removed. Threats of violence will not be tolerated.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

lol, did I get threatened again ...?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

yet you very specifically called me assinne for choosing to bump it

let me know when you get tired of digging that hole deeper

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

I mean no disrespect to you here Al, but there is a point I'd like to make from one of the posts that went bye bye in all that mess.
.......


Is the process, communication, timelines perfect? Of course not. Could aspects of it be greatly improved, sure. The question is how, and a lot of people seem to have or look for advice/solutions to provide. The bottom line is, MM provides the service so he makes the rules...

So consider the reality of the situation:

If you purchase meat from your local butcher, and have issues with: when he has your beef cuts availible, price, contacting him to find out if your steaks will be ready to pick up for dinner, etc. What can you do, realistically?
1) you can find another butcher
2) you can try to resolve the issue(s). If no resolution is found in due time you ultimately have to choose another option, or be content risking being stuck in this loop
3) you can suck it up and realize that despite the short comings, you are willing to patronize him out of: convenience, consideration of the quality of meat that only he provides, or any other reason(s) that was a factor in choosing him as your butcher

That's it. There are no other options. And this AP stuff is no different except in the fact that your money is already out of pocket. This is where your responsibilities as a buyer(vs a shopper) come in.

No one here can claim ignorance of the buyer beware principle. I am more sympathetic for those very early customers when the AP era began. But at this point, there is absolutely no excuse for anyone to not fully understand all the aspects of what they are getting into when they decide to go down this road.

If you aren't happy with the obvious and well documented potential timelines, and you still choose to play ball. Then you cannot complain.

Given how well documented the issues are: if you are not sure you are capable of providing the information needed in the way that it is requested, and you still choose to play ball. Then you cannot complain.

Moreso, this process is not complicated. But isn't truly as simple as buying a part off the shelf and driving to your local shop and having it installed while you wait. If you can't provide the information asked of you because of technological or automotive competance, you probably shouldn't be making this modification to your car in the first place.




I am absolutely NOT taking a position to absolve MM of everything complained against him. He has obviously f*cked up at times. To include for whatever reason, totally dropping his end of the process even when the customer has done everything as asked. But these cases are few and far between, and appear to be less common with time since the beginning. This is also pretty well documented, and again buyer beware. If you aren't comfortable taking that risk, don't.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Careful, Paul, Al hands out bans to those who he perceives to question his authoritah to even the smallest degree, whether that perception is based in reality or otherwise.

Also, in summary of the above quoted material, it seems that if you choose the AP calibration "service" you do so because you feel that it is the lesser of two evils: modifying your car and waiting weeks or months on the "service" to do it, or not modifying it at all. I would agree that at this point not many people should claim ignorance of this point, but it would still seem to be a pisspoor manner of dealing with customers or securing your future customer base.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Paul,
Taken from RX8Club Rules of Conduct (https://www.rx8club.com/faq.php?faq=...user_conduct):
- We will not get into a debate with a ban-ee or follower of them, here or on other forums. If you would like to discuss the reasons for a ban you may email us at admin@rx8club.com Any threads opened to discuss/debate/complain that a user was banned will be deleted, and the thread participants may find themselves also banned.- We will not get into a debate with a ban-ee or follower of them, here or on other forums. If you would like to discuss the reasons for a ban you may email us at admin@rx8club.com Any threads opened to discuss/debate/complain that a user was banned will be deleted, and the thread participants may find themselves also banned.

If you wish to get into a discussion of what has happened, PM me. I am not going to discuss the posts of others or my actions in public.

RotaryResurrection,
This is from the above link.
1. Attacks on moderators will not be tolerated, and may result in an immediate permanent ban. Moderators sometimes have to make difficult judgment calls, but remember we *are* human (well at least most of us are!) Hopefully we'll make decisions that are considered "correct" by the majority of the community. Do not post complaints, criticisms, or moderation questions on the forum. These posts will be deleted and no explanation will be given. If you have a concern about a particular moderator, send a private message to a Super Moderator or Administrator. And if you have constructive suggestions on improvements that can be made to the forum or its moderation, please post them in the Suggestions area.

While the above rule says you should have been given a Permanent Ban, your was only a 3 day.

ninjajim4

iTrader: (4)

sadly, i don't need to imagine.


i've seen both of them before. i do always get a kick out of seeing people quote themselves. enlightening, indeed.
see here again, is the same contradiction. on one hand you're posting about "time dilatation" and how responsive you actually are and then on the other here you are again with the soup **** routine. let's pick a lane. if you go with this misunderstood perception and customers blowing things out of proportion stance you've picked up in the last few posts, then of course we are getting into the circumstances of each individual case, which i know nothing about and haven't ever spoken of. thus, S'ing TFU.

on the other end of stick, which i've kept my opinions limited to... are the instructions simple? of course. is that in dispute? no. do people always follow directions? no. i don't see how putting them back on track equates to fawning respect. if anything, it seems you yourself have the expectation of fawning respect, where if someone doesn't adhere strictly to your mold, as you've stated, they're not showing you the respect you think you're entitled to. which again, i find pretty much BS. is it more efficient when everyone does like they're told, more helpful to you? yes, obviously. but efficiency is not the sole consideration.

well.. nm all that, now we're retreading covered ground. i think we're mutually agreed that we come from different schools in that regard, which is more than fine, god bless america. but when the soup **** sends em packing, he doesn't charge em for the soup.

not sure what to say here except you set your own prices and seem to feel it's more hassle than it's worth. charge more, which you say you can't do, or be more stringent in who you accept as a customer. if i see guys here posting MM bad guy threads that they got a $99 refund and a note from you saying they're too stupid for your services and have a nice day, i think we'd all have a good laugh together

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

I've been temp banned by Al before, and it was justified. I certainly haven't seen everything, but there have been very few times where I've seen anything remotely like what you imply.

Although I don't think necessary, I just wanted to throw that out there as a courtesy since I what I wanted posted as a general observation and opinion also happened to be part of a post that was 86'd in the much needed cleanup.

Oh, and what is there to question? His Mod status is pretty clear from my point of view

perhaps. I certainly dont think its the best approach, and everyone will have their own slightly unique opinion. But it is his service, he runs it how he chooses. Considering a laundry list of factors, I would doubt he is overly concerned with the future of his customer base.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You needed to post this for what reason? So people would know that you are pissed/wronged/dunno??

PM means private...why tell US? Especially in Bold

And like I am continuously saying on here..if you are a vendor..or acting like one...keep your nose out of others in similar situations.....

I comes across as self-serving and biased