Problems with MazdaManiac
12-25-2010, 02:44 PM
#128
I'm not busting your ***** but one of the reasons is simply having to explain the reasons. From just the email aspect we receive emails on everything from people trying to get tuning information from us, questions about turbo kits and turbo sizing, questions about injector sizes and types, questions about "does X modification effect my tune" and so on.
I think the expectation is that Jeff simply makes a few keyboard strokes and the process is completed. If you're truly interested I'd suggest talking to anyone who has taken Jeff's tuning seminar or even take the seminar yourself to understand the complex nature of tuning the RX8 and the level of attention and detail that is given to every single customer. The last seminar was over 12 hours long so it's not like learning to play farmville.
The process isn't perfect and changes to how things are done are happening all the time.
I think the expectation is that Jeff simply makes a few keyboard strokes and the process is completed. If you're truly interested I'd suggest talking to anyone who has taken Jeff's tuning seminar or even take the seminar yourself to understand the complex nature of tuning the RX8 and the level of attention and detail that is given to every single customer. The last seminar was over 12 hours long so it's not like learning to play farmville.
The process isn't perfect and changes to how things are done are happening all the time.
I've never had an argument about having to wait for the service
Cause, I took into consideration the fact that the AP was "going out of business" and that it was in demand. To all the others out there who purchased within the last few months, Know that these guys are working on not only the tuning, but also other projects. You'll get your tune! Jeff has stated that in other threads. Remember also that Jeff is now THE Cobb ap distributor for the RX8...
12-25-2010, 03:15 PM
#130
The instructions are written in such a manner as to make it almost impossible to screw up the submission process.
The "Instructions Instructions" are written to make the process of understanding the instructions fool proof.
Really, if you just follow the instructions, the customer is "getting themselves into" virtually nothing. It is so simple, so uninvolved, so completely devoid of need for cognitive process, an understanding of tuning - even of cars at all, or any sort of vocabulary beyond basic conversational English that I don't see how people are getting stuck and sending in jacked-up submissions.
Load the file, drive the car and send in the results.
I am not asking you to understand the relationship between the fuel tables or how to apply absolute load. Don't over-think the process.
12-25-2010, 03:42 PM
#131
3-wheeler
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We could hire a person to fulfill this role but the costs for everyone would go up. Time = money, it's no simpler than that.
Do you really need to know how the sausage is made? I'm sure you only care that it tastes good.
This is interesting to me.
The instructions are written in such a manner as to make it almost impossible to screw up the submission process.
The "Instructions Instructions" are written to make the process of understanding the instructions fool proof.
Really, if you just follow the instructions, the customer is "getting themselves into" virtually nothing. It is so simple, so uninvolved, so completely devoid of need for cognitive process, an understanding of tuning - even of cars at all, or any sort of vocabulary beyond basic conversational English that I don't see how people are getting stuck and sending in jacked-up submissions.
Load the file, drive the car and send in the results.
I am not asking you to understand the relationship between the fuel tables or how to apply absolute load. Don't over-think the process.
The instructions are written in such a manner as to make it almost impossible to screw up the submission process.
The "Instructions Instructions" are written to make the process of understanding the instructions fool proof.
Really, if you just follow the instructions, the customer is "getting themselves into" virtually nothing. It is so simple, so uninvolved, so completely devoid of need for cognitive process, an understanding of tuning - even of cars at all, or any sort of vocabulary beyond basic conversational English that I don't see how people are getting stuck and sending in jacked-up submissions.
Load the file, drive the car and send in the results.
I am not asking you to understand the relationship between the fuel tables or how to apply absolute load. Don't over-think the process.
Otherwise, "what you are getting yourself into" is no more complex than using an Ipod.
I might have opened a can of worms with providing all this detail but the point in all of this is to address the squeaky wheels here claiming there is an absence of customer service. We are not blind to the challenges but the problem is there is nothing but speculation on what goes on behind the scenes. Just because Jeff isn't posting up his daily schedule of work does not mean nothing is being done.
It really comes down to designing a business model to handle over 400+ customers that are expecting a product that takes a large amount of detail and time to produce that affords zero mistakes. Then, you must obtain and distribute data over email having never met these people, seen their cars and rely ONLY on the information they provide. Then, produce this product in a timely manner that is acceptable. Finally, you're the only person working.
That's the scope of it all.
Anyway, that's it. Back to the feeding frenzy.
Last edited by Flashwing; 12-25-2010 at 03:48 PM.
12-25-2010, 04:05 PM
#132
This is interesting to me.
The instructions are written in such a manner as to make it almost impossible to screw up the submission process.
The "Instructions Instructions" are written to make the process of understanding the instructions fool proof.
Really, if you just follow the instructions, the customer is "getting themselves into" virtually nothing. It is so simple, so uninvolved, so completely devoid of need for cognitive process, an understanding of tuning - even of cars at all, or any sort of vocabulary beyond basic conversational English that I don't see how people are getting stuck and sending in jacked-up submissions.
Load the file, drive the car and send in the results.
I am not asking you to understand the relationship between the fuel tables or how to apply absolute load. Don't over-think the process.
The instructions are written in such a manner as to make it almost impossible to screw up the submission process.
The "Instructions Instructions" are written to make the process of understanding the instructions fool proof.
Really, if you just follow the instructions, the customer is "getting themselves into" virtually nothing. It is so simple, so uninvolved, so completely devoid of need for cognitive process, an understanding of tuning - even of cars at all, or any sort of vocabulary beyond basic conversational English that I don't see how people are getting stuck and sending in jacked-up submissions.
Load the file, drive the car and send in the results.
I am not asking you to understand the relationship between the fuel tables or how to apply absolute load. Don't over-think the process.
But, easy for one is not easy for another. This reminds me of this situation http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/27542564
as far as I know, I got my logs correct, so I'm not complaining! I'm just looking at both sides of the picture...
12-26-2010, 12:00 AM
#133
I expect the people I work with to understand nothing except how to drive and the basics of the English language.
12-26-2010, 11:59 PM
#135
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Why commit to work you know you have no hope of completing in a timely manner? If you have too much work and there is no reasonable method to increase your productivity, then the prudent thing to do is STOP TAKING NEW WORK until you catch up, at least somewhat. It's not rocket science.
I send work away every spring when busy season hits. When workload exceeds 3-4 weeks' turnaround, I refuse to take on more until at least some of it is completed. It is to no one's advantage to allow work to pile up in a hopeless backlog. You end up with a mass of disgruntled customers and a frustrated business owner.
This is an overly simple solution to the problems this business states that it has, unless of course there are other motives and issues than simply more demand than supply of available time.
12-27-2010, 02:42 PM
#136
wow.. hope everyone had a good holiday. lots seems to have transpired between now and then. this is way more than i wanted to get into, given it's really none of my business. but what the hell..
so i wonder if this comprises the majority of your communication problems, or if this is an extreme example. i wonder too, even if this is the case, why people say they are going weeks on end without a response regardless of how ambiguous, incomplete or otherwise lacking their emails are. some would say -- obviously not from someone from your school of philosophy -- that it'd be your obligation to respond, asking for clarification.
not that i've ever personally gotten into why your service itself takes so long, but why are those things mutually exclusive anyway..?
TeamRX8 here seems to understand the point i am trying to make which most people on here seem to be determinedly ignoring.
it's funny that this came up (i didn't watch the clip, but i think i've got the jist of it), because i was just going to bring up how once upon a time while putting myself through grad school, my duties consisted solely of lowly desktop support. they wouldn't submit tech requests through the proper channels, but we didn't ignore them, we just helped them. there were times when i would get calls saying, 'i can't get into my email', and i'd walk over and see them staring at their windows xp log on screen. obviously, it would be better if they would have articulated better and helped me to help them. but the simple fact is, i was obligated to help, no matter how poorly they assisted in the process. i wasn't in the position to tell them to go f*ck off until they learned how to ask right. and as much as i wanted to think they were just idiotic, a good number of them actually happened to be Nobel Prize laureates, who couldn't, wouldn't or didn't read instructions.
where am i going with this? looking at your list, which you seem to be so proud of, having taken the time to post, and subsequently quote on multiple occasions, you seem to literally hate your customers, waging a battle against them. you think they're all out to gouge you. you don't have time to answer their emails but you have enough to respond with snide remarks on the forums. it makes one wonder what in the hell you're doing in this line of business, providing a service to customers at all. you don't respect them but you'll take their money. they're your bread and butter but you don't want to tolerate anything from them. you don't seem to understand (which i find strange since you're obviously a pretty sharp guy) that that tired old hat 'the customer is always right' doesn't actually LITERALLY mean the customer is always right.
^ hard to argue with any of this...
again, i have no stake in this so pardon my 2 cents unasked for. i wish all you guys the best -- success in business, and good transactions for the 8 owners. MM, i still own an MX-3, and frequent its website, where you are virtually a living legend. it's disheartening to see your reputation and your outlook being what they are. i think as a provider of customer service, you can only take blaming the customer so far. i think BHR's unwavering defense of everything MM does, when there are and/or have been inarguable deficiencies in the way he handles things, in ways that BHR does not, whether they want to acknowledge that or not, is cronyism at its worse, the only bad thing i can say about them. they seem to imply that his problems are the same they deal with day in and out, which us mere consumers know nothing about. i have never disputed this, i've said only that it serves to distinguish between the level of service BHR and MM provide, and why their respective reputations are what they are. i needn't go to AZ and see their daily operations to make such a statement, although i appreciate the invite and hope to take em up on it some day. i think knowledge and talent is only deserving of so much slack, though others would seem to think it merits no limit at all.
i guess you'll still have your defenders no matter what you do. RR still had his, even at the bottom. but i just think by helping others better you could in turn be helping yourself.
OK. I'll bite.
What about when the customer uses different e-mail addresses? How about different spellings of their name?
How about when these differences are buried in several hundred e-mails a week?
I'm not psychic - If a submission isn't exactly right, I have no idea who you are.
The format I require for submissions has a purpose - it is not just designed to somehow magically reduce my workload.
What about when the customer uses different e-mail addresses? How about different spellings of their name?
How about when these differences are buried in several hundred e-mails a week?
I'm not psychic - If a submission isn't exactly right, I have no idea who you are.
The format I require for submissions has a purpose - it is not just designed to somehow magically reduce my workload.
there's a huge chasm between getting it now vs still waiting over 2 years later
and you create half your custoner service issues through perception. The latest "get it right or go f-ck yourself" attitude of your latest customer directions thread is a perfect example. While you may feel that way you would be much better served to say someting like "we will make our best effort to inform you of incorrect submittals, but cannot be held accountable for resulting delays, receipts of being informed, etc" even if you trash them anyway. When it comes to customer service perception is everything, assuming you actually care about providing any. Its perfectly your right not to care, but then it only serves to fuel BS like this further still.
and you create half your custoner service issues through perception. The latest "get it right or go f-ck yourself" attitude of your latest customer directions thread is a perfect example. While you may feel that way you would be much better served to say someting like "we will make our best effort to inform you of incorrect submittals, but cannot be held accountable for resulting delays, receipts of being informed, etc" even if you trash them anyway. When it comes to customer service perception is everything, assuming you actually care about providing any. Its perfectly your right not to care, but then it only serves to fuel BS like this further still.
As much as I like Nick Burns, the reason this isn't a fair comparison is that the Computer Guy expects the people he works with to understand what he understands.
I expect the people I work with to understand nothing except how to drive and the basics of the English language.
I expect the people I work with to understand nothing except how to drive and the basics of the English language.
where am i going with this? looking at your list, which you seem to be so proud of, having taken the time to post, and subsequently quote on multiple occasions, you seem to literally hate your customers, waging a battle against them. you think they're all out to gouge you. you don't have time to answer their emails but you have enough to respond with snide remarks on the forums. it makes one wonder what in the hell you're doing in this line of business, providing a service to customers at all. you don't respect them but you'll take their money. they're your bread and butter but you don't want to tolerate anything from them. you don't seem to understand (which i find strange since you're obviously a pretty sharp guy) that that tired old hat 'the customer is always right' doesn't actually LITERALLY mean the customer is always right.
That's well and fine. You don't want to work 70 hours a week trying to keep up with demand? Nobody is forcing you to even if the demand for your services supports that possibility.
Why commit to work you know you have no hope of completing in a timely manner? If you have too much work and there is no reasonable method to increase your productivity, then the prudent thing to do is STOP TAKING NEW WORK until you catch up, at least somewhat. It's not rocket science.
I send work away every spring when busy season hits. When workload exceeds 3-4 weeks' turnaround, I refuse to take on more until at least some of it is completed. It is to no one's advantage to allow work to pile up in a hopeless backlog. You end up with a mass of disgruntled customers and a frustrated business owner.
This is an overly simple solution to the problems this business states that it has, unless of course there are other motives and issues than simply more demand than supply of available time.
Why commit to work you know you have no hope of completing in a timely manner? If you have too much work and there is no reasonable method to increase your productivity, then the prudent thing to do is STOP TAKING NEW WORK until you catch up, at least somewhat. It's not rocket science.
I send work away every spring when busy season hits. When workload exceeds 3-4 weeks' turnaround, I refuse to take on more until at least some of it is completed. It is to no one's advantage to allow work to pile up in a hopeless backlog. You end up with a mass of disgruntled customers and a frustrated business owner.
This is an overly simple solution to the problems this business states that it has, unless of course there are other motives and issues than simply more demand than supply of available time.
again, i have no stake in this so pardon my 2 cents unasked for. i wish all you guys the best -- success in business, and good transactions for the 8 owners. MM, i still own an MX-3, and frequent its website, where you are virtually a living legend. it's disheartening to see your reputation and your outlook being what they are. i think as a provider of customer service, you can only take blaming the customer so far. i think BHR's unwavering defense of everything MM does, when there are and/or have been inarguable deficiencies in the way he handles things, in ways that BHR does not, whether they want to acknowledge that or not, is cronyism at its worse, the only bad thing i can say about them. they seem to imply that his problems are the same they deal with day in and out, which us mere consumers know nothing about. i have never disputed this, i've said only that it serves to distinguish between the level of service BHR and MM provide, and why their respective reputations are what they are. i needn't go to AZ and see their daily operations to make such a statement, although i appreciate the invite and hope to take em up on it some day.
i think knowledge and talent is only deserving of so much slack, though others would seem to think it merits no limit at all.i guess you'll still have your defenders no matter what you do. RR still had his, even at the bottom. but i just think by helping others better you could in turn be helping yourself.
12-27-2010, 03:14 PM
#137
Many are. Considering that I only charge $99 for a service that is worth many, many times more, yet customers continue to ask for breaks, reductions, extensions, special treatment, etc is just absurd to me.
If RX-8 users are going to continue to live in a world that is free of outside relative comparison, then I will continue to define the rules inside that world as I see fit.
That said, responding here reaches more people.
No, they are not.
I only charge enough to make it worthwhile doing, but it is only worthwhile doing if it fits into the mold that I have cast.
I don't "blame" the customers - I just hold them accountable to a short list of things in trade for the rather long list for which I am held accountable.
12-27-2010, 03:34 PM
#138
Super Moderator
.......
12-27-2010, 08:21 PM
#139
^ i've seen none of that here in this thread, and i know i'm not the first to have said something of that nature. if you agree with what i said earlier, then i'm not wrong "again" per se. and if you don't, well, then i'm not wrong now. can't have it both ways...
12-27-2010, 11:23 PM
#140
Asshole for hire
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i wont claim to have read in detail the above relevant posts, just thought i'd point out 2 things.
1) there have been multiple examples of CHR busting MM's ***** on this kind of topic as well as others. and vice versa iirc.
2) the term cronyism is subjective.
1) there have been multiple examples of CHR busting MM's ***** on this kind of topic as well as others. and vice versa iirc.
2) the term cronyism is subjective.
12-28-2010, 10:58 AM
#141
12-28-2010, 07:22 PM
#147
not that i consider what i said 'ball-busting', but how is anything i said inappropriate for the "Problems with MazdaManiac' thread in the Good Guy/Bad Guy section? the points i've addressed have been brought up since like the 3rd post of page one. what belongs here? sycophantic unconditional support?
12-28-2010, 07:46 PM
#149
not that i consider what i said 'ball-busting', but how is anything i said inappropriate for the "Problems with MazdaManiac' thread in the Good Guy/Bad Guy section? the points i've addressed have been brought up since like the 3rd post of page one. what belongs here? sycophantic unconditional support?
Thia particular one addresses a customer that couldn't get their AP datalogging right, so the thread is misapplied.
Go use a thread that is relevant or accurate at least.
It's not usually "available". But go ahead!
