Ike

The older/traditional system is for the turbo to only be cooled by the lubricating oil. I believe your turbo in the EVO is oil cooled by oil other than the lubricating oil so the cool down procedure for your EVO isn't as neccessary as it was on old turbos. I'm not exactly sure what the cool down system on the EVO is, but if you find out let me know. The only reason why people tell you to let turbo cars idle and cool down nowadays is because they aren't aware of the changes in turbocharger technology or are speaking of cars with a decent amount of mods.

Ike

I'm sorry, here's something a little more your speed...


RX8er: The RX-8 sure looks great!
RX8GOD: Yeah it sure does!
RX8erade: Thank god we didn't buy an ugly econobox!
Fanboi8: Yeah, those other cars may be fast but at least we look good!
8InYoFaCe: Ours cars are fast, just wait til we mod our cars so we can have the advertised HP!
R8edXXX: Yeah, those Z drivers will be sorry then!


Better?

RX8-TX

Hey Rev, you know you don't have to apologize to me!
What I was trying to get through was the concept that no matter what you get, there is always something missing. Or wouldn't you like a little turbo power on the 190 (you know what I am talking about!) ?
Don't worry, you have your opinion, and besides most people don't let you too much of an option on how to reply. I wouldn't like someone calling my car an econobox. I am not trying to be condesceding here, but realistic. We don't like anyone bashing on our investment (yeah, a car's an investment! tell me another joke!) and we shouldn't pick on any other car, no matter what it is. Rev, you made clear that looks are secondary to you, not for me (at least not completely...) That's all. Again, please don't apologize...

RX8-TX

Dude, someone's gonna get pissed @ this!

revhappy

The manual states the following:

"The turbocharger increases engine power by pushing large amounts of air into the engine's cylnders. The finned parts inside the engine's turbocharger turn at extremely high temperatures. They are lubricated by engine oil and cooled by engine oil and coolant."

It also states " Do not stop the engine immediately after operating the car at high speeds and/driving up hills. Allow the engine to to idle for about 60 seconds or more to give the turbocharger a chance to cool down."

Most people just drive at low revs the few minutes of their drives and do a short cool down. This seems to work based on from what I have seen with the automatic turbo timers on other cars.

revhappy

RX8-TX,
Don't worry it wasn't an "apology", it was an assertion! :D Still, I think the problems with the car (and the nature of some of the forums posts) have to be examined.

revhappy

Let me clarify this. The engine is oil cooled and water cooled (hence limiting the cool down procedure to some extent).

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...threadid=34387

Brando

My old car was an 11 sec. 2001 Z28. It was modded obviously. Warranty wasn't voided( I got the tranny replaced under it.) I never timed it on a road course but the suspension and brakes were also upgraded so it handled quite well. The best part was at the drag strip I'd take the front sway bar off and you could see daylight under the front tires when I launch.:D

As far as the cat debate goes, a few "enthusiasts "removing their cats isn't going to have any effect. Second of all, the whole vehicle emission issue is all propaganda by the automotive industriy and the oil interests in our country. We could be running around in electric or hyrdrogen powered cars (which I'm sure you would love), but instead they pull they wool over our eyes and try to make it seem like gasoline powered vehicles "don't pollute that much" because there is a ton of money to be lost. Guess what? They Do! This country was practicaly built by oil money and is currently run by oil money so they come out with EPA regulations to try and make it seem like they are cleaning up the air. They aren't, and they won't until we are putting around burning hydrogen. It just makes people "feel" like we're actually doing something about the problem. .....As far as I'm concerned, clean air is an issue but is far from an ethical dilemma as I stated earlier. I deal with life and death in my job on a daily basis and see things that most people couldn't imagine in my job. It really makes you take a different perspective on what is important in life when you step into the "real world" and see how some people live. So once again, don't lecture me on ethics.

Bigcat44

What do you do for work that puts you in daily contact with life and death aside from normal everyday activities

revhappy

Z28's are extremely modable cars! Still,once you throw mods into the equation, you are talking apples and oranges (unless you consider equal mods or $). However, I won't argue with you that the Z28 isn't a drag monster with mods (even stock it is), but the car's has many other weaknesses that eliminate it for me (stock handling, braking, driving dynamics, reliability, inability to sit four people, etc.) Though, they do excel in SCCA road racing (I can't wait to see the EVO and STI enter).

I think you must have a very understanding dealer as most service departments will deny your claims (i.e. make you go to court to get the claim approved).

Well, what about the person with asthma that sits behind you as you idle unfiltered crap in their face? I have a few friends that are asthmatic that are VERY sensitive to things like that. If it is so harmless, then why do catless vehicles smell like the most awful rotten egg when they are running? I know people who had catless vehicles and they could hardly breathe and their eyes teared like a loved on had just passed away. I have had a similar experience driving behind an old junker with a burnt out cat or just some modded catless vehicle.

It is unethical because it is 1) Illegal 2) Its a complete disregard for others to gain 2-3 WHP. That IS selfish and if everyone acted as you did, we'd be living in Mexico City like conditions. You may deal with life and death everyday, but that does not excuse you from obeying the law.

Brando

I'm a PO-PO in the inner city of Milwaukee. :D...........
Revhappy, once again I'm not going to debate you anymore. I addressed most of the points you are trying to make in my previous post. The point is gasoline buring cars are very dirty. Going catless makes a minimal difference. My whole point was it is not an issue of ethics. As I stated in one of my first posts I will probably get a high flow cat. The reason though is not because it is the moral or ethical thing to do, it simply because it is not legal to do otherwise.......As far as the Z28 goes, some of the things you stated were reasons why I traded it in. The reliability was not a problem but it just felt like a boat and had too many sqeaks and rattles. Plus it just wasn't that fun to drive. It was fun to make most anyone that raced me my b!tch, but it just wasn't a pleasure to drive like the 8. That is why I bought it. Like I said earlier, if I was worried about being the fastest I would have kept that car, but I'd rather just enjoy driving. That's not to say at all that you don't enjoy your car, but it just seemed like this whole thread and argument was based on "who's the fastest".
.......Btw, you know you are BS'ng about tearing up etc. behind a cat-less vehicle. I get your point so you don't have to exaggerate that much. An improperly tuned car with a cat will burn a lot dirtier than a properly tuned one without. Also that sulpher(rotten egg) smell can only be produced by vehicles WITH cats.

revhappy

Then why does your post go beyond this point?



This is ridiculous! Many of the improvements made in cleaner vehicles are due to catylitic converters. If they made a minimal difference, why was leaded gasoline (the preferred fuel at the time) phased out? Again, I have been in and around catless cars and they stink - and yes some do smell like rotten eggs. Obviously, the degree of improvement (in emissions terms) depends on the effectiveness of the cat, but most properly functioning ones do better the cleanliness of vehicles as that is their sole function (well. also..they have to let exhaust pass through )

Yes, but WHY? I have stated that it IS because of it being selfish and imposing crap on people for a measly 2-3 WHP.
So, if it was legal you wouldn't mind that the asthmatic kid that walked behind your car could barely breath for the next day or so? My point is that it just seems so many people are in the "Me First!" mode and never bother (or care) to assess the impact their actions on others. These are classic examples why regulations ARE needed because so many people don't call such things "a moral or ethical issue". Of course, many of these people think you a re immoral if pray to a different God, don't pray at all or have certain sexual acts.

No, I am not. In fact go on evolutionm.net and you'll see a bunch of people racing to put high flow cats on their cars because of this and the stench.

Brando

I've already addressed most of your so-called points and some of your statements are blatant lies and you know it. I'm done. Btw, you are right, I totally have a "me first" mentality that is why I go to work everyday and risk my life for thankless morons like you. Get a life. Now I'm done.

revhappy

You have not addressed those points and you still insist that that there is virtually no difference (in emissions terms) between a vehicle with a cat and the same car without one. Before, you accuse a person of being "thankless" it would be wise for you to actually know the person. I'm not going to give you a pass because of your job.

Elara

guys, stop it, or the thread is closed. This is going nowhere.

megauo

Hi Yanks,

about the air pollution and catless..

1. The US produces one third of the total air pollution on earth
2. The US constantly refuses to sign and conclude international treaties regulating emisions (freons, CO, NOx)

So a bit of running catless won't add too much ((

Elara

megauo, you're not helping the conversation with that.

amartin

Hi everyone... I just bought an RX-8 TODAY... A friend of mine who is starting his job at Mazda helped me out with a hell'a good deal, etc..

Basically, I wanted to get rid of my Piece of shvt Ford SportTrac truck that was falling apart at 24,000 miles (a 2001).

Anyway, I've also owned a '00 S2000, sold it for a '02 S2000-- which I still own (Silver, 11k miles).

I drove a fully loaded RX-8, but ended up buying a SP1 package (no leather, but traction control, etc... just not the GP+Nav stuff)... in blue, though I liked the titanium better-- I felt it would have been like buying a hardtop for my S2K since they would be almoost the same color.

Well, anyway, on the test drive, I "drove" the fully loaded one like I'd normally drive... (I autocross, and generally run R Compound Yoko A032R's on the S2K)... I know--I know, its not good to red-line a fairly new car, but the one I test-drove had some milage on it.. Anyway, yes.. I railed through some gears.

Here's what I found:

Off the line, the RX8 "FEELS" like it has more power/torque than the S2K, as I didn't need to left-foot-clutch-drop it from 7.2k rps to get it to really get up and go...

Once its moving however, the S2K is MOST definately stronger/harder pulling.. there's no comparison-- I'm looking into the ECU mod to gain 20-25 HP and am hoping that'll help bring the RX-8 inline with the S2K as fasr as power goes.. though the S2K is nearly 400lbs lighter. (2800 vs 3200 aprox).

One thing I did notice, and was really ... unhappy about, though it didn't stop me from buying the car (after all this is my 'beater' now, instead of my truck...) [Yaya.. its not a beater, but its my only non-covertable car]... When I launched the RX8 I noticed REALLLLLY BAD wheel hop from the rear-end with the traction-control off... My s2k doesn't do that, and it seems pretty annoying/bad.. and I certainly don't wanna run the traction-control all the time, what fun is that??

Sorry to drag on like this..just kinda excited :-) Both are very cool cars, but they really aren't in the same category...

Rotarian_SC

Well 1st of all u will have 2 add some stuff 2 ur car to eliminate wheel hop, and u should b launching it from around 6 or so rpms and don't do a clutch drop, feather it for a little to reduce spin/hop then let out the rest, see the drag forum for more.

Second the Rx-8 is a 13sec (Canzoomer got 13.8) car w/ the Canzoomer stage 1 $500 ECU mod, and i basically view the rx8 w/ Cz ECU as a 4 seater s2000. I believe it really weighs about 3k lbs and is much less peaky then the s2000.

Finally about the pollution, i saw something interesting at an auto show, i believe it was Tokoyo, where they had a Rx-8 that could run on Hydrogen or gasoline. You could change w/ the flip of a switch. The rotary has shown promise for Hydrogen gas engines, piston enginges can't combuse H2 cause the intake and combustion happen in the same place so the H2 which combusts at a lower temperature combusts too soon because of the heat around the intake port, but as u know this is not the case w/ the rotary. It would b ironic if the rotary becomes the solution to H2 motors, because of past emissions and fuel economy.

I think the Rx-8 competes against the 330 and G35, and in my opinion is better than either, yet it is a bit of a sports car in its own right. On the top gear test track it pulled the same time as a Z and an M3. I think the s2k, evo, sti, etc killing will b left 2 the new rx-7-possibly tri-rotor or 2 rotor 1.5L.

And for all u evo owners, here are some suggestions u might like for an Evo 9, u could remove all dashboard materials, radio and speakers, and a/c and replace all seats with bolted down inflateable seats to save weight, and mayb upgrade the turbo w/ the money they save. I am not bashing the Evo, i admit that if i wanted a car that could just go fast stock and didn't care about nething else except price, the evo would b my 1st choice w/ a mustang cobra shortly behind it.

neit_jnf

Some time ago someone in the forum weighted their Sport Package RX-8 at roughly 2950 lbs

zerobanger

Ok, i'm all for the 13 second Rx-8, but he did that 13.8 on a G-tech, please dont spread mis-information. while the results look promising, its not real 1/4 mile times.

second, correct the rx-8 weighs around 3000 lbs fully loaded GT package (all options).

last, to the other guy who owns the s2000 and rx-8, the reason the rx-8 feels like it has more low end torque, is because it does. torque peaks at 5500 vs 7500 for the s2000. 90 pct of the torque on the rx8 is available by 3000 RPM and lastly, the 4.44 gears in the rx8 vs the 4.11's in the angry salamander are why the rx7 "feels " like it has more torque. It does.

The s2000 has a better power to weight in stock form, but short of a turbo/sc the s2000 engine gets very little improvment. I bet the farm the renesis will respond better to mods.

Lawerence

I agree with most of what you said.

And you are dead right with the gtech 1/4 mile time (tho it is a good INDICATION of what you will run).

But there are plenty of s2ks that have 240+whp with minor boltons (i/h/e).

Also the new S2K with the 2.2L engine is consistantly dynoing 10-12 more HP (sometimes 15-20 more) than the old F20C.

(i still perfer the F20)

R8N8SIS

an extra 40+ whp with just I/E/H? are u sure? which manufacturer?

my friend only manage to squeezed an extra 25 whp in his s2k with I/E/H . a total of 227 whp.

Ike

That's more like it, and maybe on the higher side of what people usually get. The S2K is a great car but they don't take well to mods as others have pointed out.