revhappy

How come every discussion about the EVO (or WRX and STI) on this board leads to the "hopped up econbox" mentality. What's so great if this "revolutionary design" doesn't give the car the performance. Frankly, Mazda made the RX8 try to be too many things to too many people. Its looks and performance are compromised as a result. Really, if you want a 4 door sports car that looks like one get the RX8, if you want a car that outperforms most sports cars and seats four people - get an EVO or STI.

ranger4277

Because that is what it is?

Back to the S2000, I love that car! Maybe that's why I love my 8 so much... they have a lot in common.

Twin 8s!

Hornet,

Your thoughts...
First, the "stock" EVO is a LANCER! Hence the name LANCER EVO! This is no different than the Neon and the Neon SRT-4. One is there mainstream mass production vehicle and one is a niche product. If you want to compare niche products against an RX-8 you will have to wait for the Mazdaspeed addition for something simliar.

Ref your thoughts on BMW and the 330, I think it is difficult to compare motors but I do not see why the rotary engine should give up more than double its displacement just do the bimmer can save some face.

Ike

The stock EVO is a EVO, it may share the same shell as Lancer but the similarities stop there. The same goes for the other cars you mentioned. If you think the EVO and the STi are highly modified you're in for a bit shock. Mod for mod those cars will get more gains than the RX-8 will, they are far from being highly modfied, and far from being tapped out from the factory. They do deserve comparison, they can all seat 4, they fall in a similar price range, they are all performance oriented cars that handle well, and they all have a factory warranty when in stock form.

Hornet

Thank you for the attempt at educating me but I am aware of the roots of the Evo. Now can we keep this respectful.

Here is my rebut, what stock means as far as I understand it that means "as purchased from the manufacturer" another trim level does not exclude a car from being stock. What you just described sounds like what would be referred to as a "base model". Strangely on another note Mitsubishi kinda markets the Evo as a seperate vehicle while it is still linked to the Lancer in it's basic form (don't believe me try to build a Lancer on their web site and see if Evo is a "trim level"). If what you say holds true then we need to change how we define some other vehicles like the wave of crossover vehicles, because their basic underpinnings belong to cars but they don't get the "that's not stock" treatment because their body varies enough for us not to notice.

As for the BMW 330 it's been said time and time again that the 1.3L rotary may be equal to an engine 2 to 3 times it's size. A 3.0L fits in that window. Straight line performance numbers that I was able to find on the 330's are amazingly similar to the RX-8's. How is that saving face for the Bimmer?

rotarygod

There is absolutely no point in comparing the RX-8 with any of those other cars. Mazda didn't design the RX-8 to compete with an EVO or WRX. They designed it to be different and that it is. How is comparing it going to change that? Who cares if the car is faster or slower than another car? No one is forcing you to buy or own it. If you would rather have more power then go buy one of those cars. Here, just to add to a pointless argument, an Enzo will kick the crap out of all of them. Who cares! I don't and it is an exercise in stupidity to begin with. If you need the exercise then go ahead and argue away. No one will ever win this debate though.

Anthony

Going back to the original question I can comment as I am coming from an S2000 to an RX8.

The S2000 is by far a quicker car, on my test drive my dealer asked me how the RX stood up. He looked disappointed when I told him the RX was definitely slower, but you have to keep in mind that they are not aimed at the same market.
Also in an out and out race a lot would depend on the driver as has already been said, but also on the S2000 clutch, know for slipping, so could result in the S2000 making lots of noise, lots of smoke and alot smell, but not a lot of motion - that is the only way the RX will win.

Anthony

Broker73

curious? a good friend of mine has a 2003 s2000, and I have to say it seemed no faster than the 8? I personally think both are very close, but the edge might be given to the s2000?

but I think they put very close 0-60 and 1/4mile times. I know the 2004 s2000 has made some improvements on performance, but I don't think there was a noticable difference between his 2003 and the 8. I think most cars will feel faster than the 8, not because they are, but because the 8 has such a different feel, until you look down and relaize how fast you are going. :D

WTF no turbo

They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast **** box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds.

revhappy

As Ike suggested, the similarities are almost just skin deep. Anyway, a Mazdaspeed version would likely cost more than the RX8 and EVO. In addition, there ARE limited edition higher performing EVO models overseas.

Overseas Standard EVO - 280 HP, Active Yaw Control (AYC)and Active Center Differential (ACD)
Luxury EVO - leather and other crap - yuck!
FQ330 - 330 HP, AYC, ACD, upgraded, intercooler, etc.
EVO RS Sprint - ~340 HP, no AYC, ACD - smaller wheels , stripped lighter model.
EVO Extreme - ~340 HP - AYC, ACD

US - Next Year - RS - 15 inch wheels, no wing, couple hundred pounds lighter - ~$25 K - limited edition model for niche audience.

revhappy

If I want to be coddled, I'll lie on my couch and each nachos while watching tv.

revhappy

That's what we hoped for, but it did not pan out. S2000- 1/4 mile high 13 to mid 14s, RX8 1/4 mile high 14s to mid 15s.

Ike

Ok Einstein, what else do they share? And I disagree with your statement that mazda could make a fast shitbox, shitbox maybe, fast doubt it. Well maybe I'm wrong, if something has a disposable engine does that make it a shitbox? :p

Twin 8s!

Thank you for providing your understanding of "stock".... Having reviewed your profile, as a 19 yr old, I guess the concept of performance versions of mass marketed autos is something new. In reality, they have been around for a loooong time. As examples, there have been the Olds Cutlass and the 442, the Charger and the Daytona Charger, the Roadrunner and the SuperBee, the Baracuda the Hemi-Cuda the Cuda AAR, the Javelin and the AMX... This list goes on and on.

The EVO is a Lancer chasis that has been highly modified. Granted, you may be able to modify it further, but none the less, it is a factory built niche auto based on the original Lancer chasis. The reason they market separately is because the vehicle has been successful not because it is a normal mass production vehicle. The Mazda RX-8 is not a niche vehicle.... quite the contary, the reason there are backseats is to make the vehicle appeal to an even larger audience. The 6MT RX-8 is a stock vehicle waiting to be modified. The Lancer has been modified and called the EVO. It is not even listed on MSN.COM for 2004. If you compare the 2003, the EVO is more expensive. While the Lancer ES is just 14K.

Now with all of the above stated, I note that the EVO and WRX are great performance versions of the original base model cars and when Mazda provides a turbo-charged, intercooled factory version, we will all be waiting to see it compared to the other niche vehicles out there.

With regards to the BMW 330, its base price is $8,000.00 more than the 6MT RX-8. Why do you think this is a fair comparison? Tell ya what, you send 8k my way and I will beat any 3 series BMW you can find. .... by the by I happen to like bimmers... I just cannot afford them.

Ike

Hey, why stop there, a Z28 isn't stock, Z24, anything SS, MSP Protege, Acura Type S or R anything, Z06, Iroc, Spec-V, SE-R, GT-R, M3, M5, S4, S6, RS6, RS4, SVT Focus, Mustang GT, Mustang Cobra, the list goes on and on... I guess none of those cars are "stock" huh?

rabinabo

Who cares whether it's called a lancer evolution or just an evolution or whether you say it's stock or not, if you look at it from the outside it still looks like a beefed-up lancer. That's what Twin 8s! was trying to say. The exterior would appeal mostly to the mod crowd, the same guys with the huge wings on their civics.

The 8 is entirely distinct from the cars out now, which is why it draws so much attention. It looks like a true sports car. And let's just allow some time for mods to develop. I mean it's a 2004 model, and it's still 2003 for christ sake

rotarygod

I'm still going to stick to my original comment and say that comparisons are childish and a complete waste of time. If the car isn't fast enough, go buy something else.

Hornet

Ok, I need to apologize for not being more clear with the RX-8 and 330 comparison. My RX-8, while not the standard, is fully loaded with the exception of GPS. The price the dealer was asking was $33k ($35k with GPS) where the 330 has a price range of about $34 to $37k. I now understand what you meant and you do have a point.

On the other thing, I can't open MSN's auto site right now for some reason but the Evo is a '03 model.

I definitely look forward to seeing what Mazda can do with the RX-8 though. I know I may seem a little biased on this issue but I'm not knocking the RX-8 just speaking from my research and experience with the Evo (and some research on the STI). The only car I might have bias against is those darn Mustangs (although I might find myself being strangely drawn to a Cobra every now and then).

Hornet

You would be surprised who that car appeals to! I had one just before I got my RX-8. The day I went in and got it there was a man in there also buying his that had to be at least 50 yrs old. There are a few guys on Evolutionm.net that are over 60 years old and quite a few who transplanted themselves from BMWs and Audis. The cars appeals go way deeper than the big wing.

rabinabo

I used to hang out a lot at evolutionm.net, so I know that there are a few older, more experieced enthusiasts there. Although compared to the following here, it's definitely a younger crowd over at evolutionm. In fact, if you just compare posts on both forums, there are more people here that post in complete sentences with correct spelling and grammar. I've seen way more posts at evolutionm that I simply cannot even decipher and would need a degree from ebonics u. to comprehend

SDFLY

"They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast **** box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds"

Could not have been stated any clearer....I too see the coupe and the 8 as the only two in their class for what they provide and chose the 8 becasue it did not look like any other car and the money saved will translate directly into hp down the road...

One other thing, what is up with other type car owners hanging here?? Someone explain please....

Ike

It's pretty common on all car forums, also the amount of bashing you guys do on other cars attracts attention from other forums. I'll be sure to keep telling myself the 8 is in a class by itself as I show RX-8 drivers my ugly, ordinary, econo box tailights :p

tommy12g

Good for you WRX kid, enjoy your car, we will definately enjoy ours

Ike

Thanks little boy I will!

RX8-TX

KIDS! to the corner, RIGHT NOW!:p
And if you keep ranting, no supper for you!