RX 8 vs. S2000 ???
12-19-2003, 11:57 AM
#76
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Originally posted by R8N8SIS
the S2000 is NOT much faster ! read my post on top, S2000 is just little faster than the 8. S2000 pull really hard when it hits vtec while the 8 stop pulling due to mazda running it too rich up top to safe the CAT . when cz mods installed in the 8, i m sure the 8 will give the s2000 a tough time.
the S2000 is NOT much faster ! read my post on top, S2000 is just little faster than the 8. S2000 pull really hard when it hits vtec while the 8 stop pulling due to mazda running it too rich up top to safe the CAT . when cz mods installed in the 8, i m sure the 8 will give the s2000 a tough time.
12-19-2003, 12:33 PM
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The S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It is close enough that it could be a driver's race. Definitely not 10 car lengths as ridiculously stated earlier. I've seen an 8 and an 03' S2000 race at Great Lakes Dragaway and the S won by probably 1 1/2 to 2 car lengths. I believe the S ran 14.3 and the 8 ran 14.9. .......Now for my $.02 on this whole debate. It is absolutely ridiculous because people who are concerned with performance do not leave their cars stock, and when it comes to modified cars all bets are off. Factory performance means nothing. If you want to brag about the fastest factory car for the $, sorry EVO and STI lovers but you shoulda bought a Cobra. But, like I said , factory performance means ****. Pick on the RX-8 owners now while there are basically no mods available because from what I've seen close to 100 hp may be attainable with basic bolt-ons. That should be plenty to walk over even Supercharged S-2000's. EVO's and STI's may be another story. 
The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).
The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).
12-19-2003, 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Brando
The S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It is close enough that it could be a driver's race. Definitely not 10 car lengths as ridiculously stated earlier. I've seen an 8 and an 03' S2000 race at Great Lakes Dragaway and the S won by probably 1 1/2 to 2 car lengths. I believe the S ran 14.3 and the 8 ran 14.9. .......Now for my $.02 on this whole debate. It is absolutely ridiculous because people who are concerned with performance do not leave their cars stock, and when it comes to modified cars all bets are off. Factory performance means nothing. If you want to brag about the fastest factory car for the $, sorry EVO and STI lovers but you shoulda bought a Cobra. But, like I said , factory performance means ****. Pick on the RX-8 owners now while there are basically no mods available because from what I've seen close to 100 hp may be attainable with basic bolt-ons. That should be plenty to walk over even Supercharged S-2000's. EVO's and STI's may be another story. The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).
The S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It is close enough that it could be a driver's race. Definitely not 10 car lengths as ridiculously stated earlier. I've seen an 8 and an 03' S2000 race at Great Lakes Dragaway and the S won by probably 1 1/2 to 2 car lengths. I believe the S ran 14.3 and the 8 ran 14.9. .......Now for my $.02 on this whole debate. It is absolutely ridiculous because people who are concerned with performance do not leave their cars stock, and when it comes to modified cars all bets are off. Factory performance means nothing. If you want to brag about the fastest factory car for the $, sorry EVO and STI lovers but you shoulda bought a Cobra. But, like I said , factory performance means ****. Pick on the RX-8 owners now while there are basically no mods available because from what I've seen close to 100 hp may be attainable with basic bolt-ons. That should be plenty to walk over even Supercharged S-2000's. EVO's and STI's may be another story.
The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).
As for why, EVO and STI onwers did not buy a Cobra, we want power, handling, braking and driving dynamics. The Cobra puts more emphasis in the accleration part of that equation - and costs about $5,000 more than the EVO.
12-19-2003, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by revhappy
The RX8's response to mods is unknown as of yet, but I'm guessing for < $20,000 or so it should be a bit better as the S2K is a notoriously difficult car to mod. Still, the supercharged S2K's are beasts if you are willing to spend the $.
As for why, EVO and STI onwers did not buy a Cobra, we want power, handling, braking and driving dynamics. The Cobra puts more emphasis in the accleration part of that equation - and costs about $5,000 more than the EVO.
The RX8's response to mods is unknown as of yet, but I'm guessing for < $20,000 or so it should be a bit better as the S2K is a notoriously difficult car to mod. Still, the supercharged S2K's are beasts if you are willing to spend the $.
As for why, EVO and STI onwers did not buy a Cobra, we want power, handling, braking and driving dynamics. The Cobra puts more emphasis in the accleration part of that equation - and costs about $5,000 more than the EVO.
Last edited by Brando; 12-19-2003 at 01:35 PM.
12-19-2003, 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Brando
That is my point exactly. Everyone bought there car for different reasons and no one can say that their car is the best at everything. You can make your car the best through mods and that can be done to any car. ...What was the $20,000 quote that you made referring to? Did you mean $20,000 worth of mods or did you put an extra zero on accident?
That is my point exactly. Everyone bought there car for different reasons and no one can say that their car is the best at everything. You can make your car the best through mods and that can be done to any car. ...What was the $20,000 quote that you made referring to? Did you mean $20,000 worth of mods or did you put an extra zero on accident?
I meant the only significant power mod that I know about is the supercharger kit (Comptech i think) that costs something like $20,000 or so.
Originally posted by Brando
In response to your comment on the RX-8 unknown response to mods, I submitt the work that Canzoomer has done on the ECU. The factory has it pig-rich and we are looking at over 50hp just by a new ecu program and ditching the cat. That is all for $750 compared to like $4000 for a Turbo or SC setup to make the same power. Once again I'm not trying to say this car is better than others, but just addressing your concern on how it will respond to mods.
In response to your comment on the RX-8 unknown response to mods, I submitt the work that Canzoomer has done on the ECU. The factory has it pig-rich and we are looking at over 50hp just by a new ecu program and ditching the cat. That is all for $750 compared to like $4000 for a Turbo or SC setup to make the same power. Once again I'm not trying to say this car is better than others, but just addressing your concern on how it will respond to mods.
12-19-2003, 02:44 PM
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(Quote)These are not unusually high numbers and the ECU reflashing and "ditching the cat" (which is illegal, carries $10,000 fine in California and not to mention questionable ethically) are not unique to the RX8. For example, there are several reflashes available for the EVO that are proven, Canzoomer's is yet to be proven reliable by a large audience for a long period of time. Also, the cats may burn out early adding additional cost. As for turbos, you had better be damn skilled to put on a kit and your maximum boost will always be limted by the fact that Rensesis is a NA engine. Considering the Compression Ratio is 10 -1, I'd expect it not to be as simple as you say. Finally, I would not even attempt to turbocharge this engine given the problems its experiencing in stock, NA form. [/B][/QUOTE]
1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.
1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.
12-19-2003, 03:11 PM
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[(
So, now we are only talking about NA cars? 
Anyway, cars like the RSX-S and Celica make huge gains with just bolt ons as well. Yes, I DO beleive removing the cat from your car is unethical as its a complete disregard for everyone else's ability to breath clean air (or contribute to global warming - no more debates on this one, its been done here many times) to gain a few horsepower. IMHO, if you want to remove the cat, you should put a high flow cat and you will retain most of the hp gains from going catless and still have reasonable (though likely slightly increased from what I have seen on the evo boards) emissions.
How do you know that this car will gain a given amount of HP (and still maintain reliability) when it has not been done succesfully repeatedly yet? This engine has had more issues than any of the cars I have seen come out in recent years. Its been discussed numerous times, I call significantly lower power~15% than touted, ~ 28% worse fuel economy than claimed originally, heating issues, air conditioning issues, flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.
Originally posted by Brando
1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.
1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.
Anyway, cars like the RSX-S and Celica make huge gains with just bolt ons as well. Yes, I DO beleive removing the cat from your car is unethical as its a complete disregard for everyone else's ability to breath clean air (or contribute to global warming - no more debates on this one, its been done here many times) to gain a few horsepower. IMHO, if you want to remove the cat, you should put a high flow cat and you will retain most of the hp gains from going catless and still have reasonable (though likely slightly increased from what I have seen on the evo boards) emissions.How do you know that this car will gain a given amount of HP (and still maintain reliability) when it has not been done succesfully repeatedly yet? This engine has had more issues than any of the cars I have seen come out in recent years. Its been discussed numerous times, I call significantly lower power~15% than touted, ~ 28% worse fuel economy than claimed originally, heating issues, air conditioning issues, flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.
12-19-2003, 03:58 PM
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Hey Brando, don't waste your time stooping to these trolls level, all they apparently do for a living is surf other car threads where they feel safe, havn't seen too many of their sigs on any of my Vette threads....My god this is insane! K....i.....l.....l
12-19-2003, 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by SDFLY
Hey Brando, don't waste your time stooping to these trolls level, all they apparently do for a living is surf other car threads where they feel safe, havn't seen too many of their sigs on any of my Vette threads....My god this is insane! K....i.....l.....l
Hey Brando, don't waste your time stooping to these trolls level, all they apparently do for a living is surf other car threads where they feel safe, havn't seen too many of their sigs on any of my Vette threads....My god this is insane! K....i.....l.....l
12-19-2003, 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by revhappy
[ .. flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.
[ .. flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=15032
Although its not aimed to specific problems, it gives you a good perspective of how problems are weighted against the overall package.
Cheers!
12-20-2003, 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by revhappy
Wait until, we have a an EVO roadster! :p Don't worry this "troll" has been following the RX8 for longer than 90+% of the members on the forum!
Wait until, we have a an EVO roadster! :p Don't worry this "troll" has been following the RX8 for longer than 90+% of the members on the forum!
12-20-2003, 10:16 AM
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I don't see how revhappy is becoming a troll. He's telling it like it is. The Renesis is still a very new engine with it's share of problems. It is still unknown how mod friendly it is, or how mod friendly the drivetrain is.
In my opinion the renesis will always be farely limited. It was designed to be a N/A engine. A 10:1 compression will limit boost and a hot exhaust will limit it further (turbo application). With forced induction, you're asking for problems that plagued the 3rd Gen Rx7. The only way to truely do forced induction would be a rebuild with low compression rotors which is more money than most are willing to spend. Even then you have the questions of whether the drivetrain can handle that power, will the engine overheat, how reliable will it be, can it pass inspection (probably not)...etc.
The best bet is CZ reflash, exhaust, and intake. Those in themselves will yield good gains but after that it will be an uphill climb. But I hope I'm wrong...I'd love to see RX8's running in the 12's for cheap.
In my opinion the renesis will always be farely limited. It was designed to be a N/A engine. A 10:1 compression will limit boost and a hot exhaust will limit it further (turbo application). With forced induction, you're asking for problems that plagued the 3rd Gen Rx7. The only way to truely do forced induction would be a rebuild with low compression rotors which is more money than most are willing to spend. Even then you have the questions of whether the drivetrain can handle that power, will the engine overheat, how reliable will it be, can it pass inspection (probably not)...etc.
The best bet is CZ reflash, exhaust, and intake. Those in themselves will yield good gains but after that it will be an uphill climb. But I hope I'm wrong...I'd love to see RX8's running in the 12's for cheap.
12-20-2003, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by RX8-TX
revhappy, check this poll out and weight it against your own post:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=15032
Although its not aimed to specific problems, it gives you a good perspective of how problems are weighted against the overall package.
Cheers!
revhappy, check this poll out and weight it against your own post:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=15032
Although its not aimed to specific problems, it gives you a good perspective of how problems are weighted against the overall package.
Cheers!
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=294
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=167
Notice that the median and weighted average (assuming the under 17 is 15) MPG are about 18.
12-20-2003, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by rabinabo
Maybe you should get a life then :P Actually, just to play devil's advocate, how long you've following the RX8 has nothing to do with being a troll. Maybe before the 8 came out you weren't, but in my eye, you're converging on troll status.
Maybe you should get a life then :P Actually, just to play devil's advocate, how long you've following the RX8 has nothing to do with being a troll. Maybe before the 8 came out you weren't, but in my eye, you're converging on troll status.
12-20-2003, 11:18 AM
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Ok... lets try this again.
EVO nice
EVO fast
EVO turbo
EVO AWD
EVO built on Lancer chassis... NOT comparing Lancer to EVO... stating EVO is ... an Evolution of the Lancer as name states... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Mitsubishi marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: EVO is a street version of a rally car based on Lancer chassis. Mitsubishi did a great job. They saw the need to build a vehicle to compete against the WRX. This a business decision made because Subaru was selling a ton of them based on their racing success.
---------------------------------------------
WRX nice
WRX fast
WRX turbo
WRX AWD
WRX built on Imprezza chassis... NOT comparing Imprezza to WRX... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Subaru marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: WRX is a street version of a rally car based on an Imprezza chassis. Subaru did a great job has expanded on the concept with multiple versions.
---------------------------------------------
S2000 nice
S2000 fast
S2000 Two seater
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: S2000 has few real cmpetitors as a N/A high revving RWD two seater ragtop with great handling. Aftermarket players are taking the vehicle to all new levels.
---------------------------------------------
RX-8 nice
RX-8 fast (atleast fast enough for me)
RX-8 N/A (maybe someone like Jackson Racing will come up with a turbo kit)
RX-8 RWD ... Do not know if we would ever see an AWD version unless Mazda goes down the same Rally path as Mitsubishi and Subaru
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: RX-8 is a great effort by Mazda to bring a rotary vehicle back for US (and other) customers. The shift from a two seater to a unique four passenger design has made it the target for several odd comparisons. I have not seen any magazine publish a head to head comparison of the RX-8 with the vehicles above. They may exist. In each of the comparison/reviews that I have seen they are having the same debate we have had.
Regards aftermarket... I can only hope that we will see cool stuff because it gives us options for personalizing on cars.
---------------------------------------------
As for AbusiveWombat... Merry Christmas...
Interesting... I guess the reason I bring it up is that to compare things you normally try to look for like items and then review the results. For me... I think it is important to work toward a realistic comparison. No one seems to be comparing the S2000 to a Kawasaki Ninja... two wheel, four wheel... huge wieght difference... but hey... whats it matter... How about an Audi S4 to the Subaru Imprezza... FWD to AWD, turbo to N/A but what the heck...
The only real thing the vehicles above have in common is that price range... with the S2000 on the high end I think.
So with regards to turbo and N/A... I guess if the only thing you want to look at are the final performance stats then you can compare them if you wish. I think most of this manuvering is just a way to get a certain vehicle to have an unrealistic advantage...
Hey the one thing I think I can count on is that the RX-8 is the best damn 1.3 liter four passenger sports cars out there... It just kicks butt. :D Of course that is back to the "in a class by itself" thing isn't it.
:D
:D 
Happy Holidays to all...
EVO nice
EVO fast
EVO turbo
EVO AWD
EVO built on Lancer chassis... NOT comparing Lancer to EVO... stating EVO is ... an Evolution of the Lancer as name states... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Mitsubishi marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: EVO is a street version of a rally car based on Lancer chassis. Mitsubishi did a great job. They saw the need to build a vehicle to compete against the WRX. This a business decision made because Subaru was selling a ton of them based on their racing success.
---------------------------------------------
WRX nice
WRX fast
WRX turbo
WRX AWD
WRX built on Imprezza chassis... NOT comparing Imprezza to WRX... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Subaru marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: WRX is a street version of a rally car based on an Imprezza chassis. Subaru did a great job has expanded on the concept with multiple versions.
---------------------------------------------
S2000 nice
S2000 fast
S2000 Two seater
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: S2000 has few real cmpetitors as a N/A high revving RWD two seater ragtop with great handling. Aftermarket players are taking the vehicle to all new levels.
---------------------------------------------
RX-8 nice
RX-8 fast (atleast fast enough for me)
RX-8 N/A (maybe someone like Jackson Racing will come up with a turbo kit)
RX-8 RWD ... Do not know if we would ever see an AWD version unless Mazda goes down the same Rally path as Mitsubishi and Subaru
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: RX-8 is a great effort by Mazda to bring a rotary vehicle back for US (and other) customers. The shift from a two seater to a unique four passenger design has made it the target for several odd comparisons. I have not seen any magazine publish a head to head comparison of the RX-8 with the vehicles above. They may exist. In each of the comparison/reviews that I have seen they are having the same debate we have had.
Regards aftermarket... I can only hope that we will see cool stuff because it gives us options for personalizing on cars.
---------------------------------------------
As for AbusiveWombat... Merry Christmas...
I've never understood why people think that a turbocharged car should not be compared with a N/A car. It seems like this "card" is only played by the loser.
The only real thing the vehicles above have in common is that price range... with the S2000 on the high end I think.
So with regards to turbo and N/A... I guess if the only thing you want to look at are the final performance stats then you can compare them if you wish. I think most of this manuvering is just a way to get a certain vehicle to have an unrealistic advantage...
Hey the one thing I think I can count on is that the RX-8 is the best damn 1.3 liter four passenger sports cars out there... It just kicks butt. :D Of course that is back to the "in a class by itself" thing isn't it.
:D
:D Happy Holidays to all...
12-20-2003, 12:03 PM
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RevHappy, obviously you have nothing better to do than sit around and calculate statistics and bash other people's cars so I'm not going to argue with you any more. Your car must not be that fun to drive otherwise you'd be driving it instead of being glued to your computer. You have 800 some posts here, I can only imagine what you have on the EVO boards. ....I bought my car because I wanted a sexy, sophistcated vehicle that handles great and is a blast to drive. If I wanted a bad-*** rocket at the expense of other things, I'd have kept my old car which mopped the floor with EVO's and most other cars it encountered. I don't need to have the fastest car anymore and I'll be the first to admit that the 8 is not the fastest. I am going to mod it and make it faster but I'll be happy with a 13 sec car. ....As far as my ethics are concerned, you don't know me or anything about me so don't question my ethics. You really need a reality check if you think that cat removal is an ethical dilelmma. I'm not saying that it doesn't throw a pinch more crap into the air, but if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.
12-20-2003, 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Brando
RevHappy (Wombat and Ikeimprezza), obviously you have nothing better to do....You really need a reality check .... if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.
RevHappy (Wombat and Ikeimprezza), obviously you have nothing better to do....You really need a reality check .... if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.
12-20-2003, 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by Brando
RevHappy, obviously you have nothing better to do than sit around and calculate statistics and bash other people's cars so I'm not going to argue with you any more. Your car must not be that fun to drive otherwise you'd be driving it instead of being glued to your computer. You have 800 some posts here, I can only imagine what you have on the EVO boards. ....
RevHappy, obviously you have nothing better to do than sit around and calculate statistics and bash other people's cars so I'm not going to argue with you any more. Your car must not be that fun to drive otherwise you'd be driving it instead of being glued to your computer. You have 800 some posts here, I can only imagine what you have on the EVO boards. ....
Anyway, my EVO is in semi-hibernation for the winter because I have not sprung for all season or winter tires (the stock advans are summer tires and should not be driven in < 40 Degree weather) and salt is all over the roads. I've been on this board as a lurker and member far longer than I have been on evolutionm.net so I have racked up only around 200 posts over there.
Originally posted by Brando
I bought my car because I wanted a sexy, sophistcated vehicle that handles great and is a blast to drive. If I wanted a bad-*** rocket at the expense of other things, I'd have kept my old car which mopped the floor with EVO's and most other cars it encountered. I don't need to have the fastest car anymore and I'll be the first to admit that the 8 is not the fastest. I am going to mod it and make it faster but I'll be happy with a 13 sec car. ....
I bought my car because I wanted a sexy, sophistcated vehicle that handles great and is a blast to drive. If I wanted a bad-*** rocket at the expense of other things, I'd have kept my old car which mopped the floor with EVO's and most other cars it encountered. I don't need to have the fastest car anymore and I'll be the first to admit that the 8 is not the fastest. I am going to mod it and make it faster but I'll be happy with a 13 sec car. ....
Originally posted by Brando
As far as my ethics are concerned, you don't know me or anything about me so don't question my ethics. You really need a reality check if you think that cat removal is an ethical dilelmma. I'm not saying that it doesn't throw a pinch more crap into the air, but if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.
As far as my ethics are concerned, you don't know me or anything about me so don't question my ethics. You really need a reality check if you think that cat removal is an ethical dilelmma. I'm not saying that it doesn't throw a pinch more crap into the air, but if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.
12-20-2003, 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by revhappy
On a car board, people are always going to be more enthusuastic about their car and reluctant to turn on it (and their decision to buy). Specific problems identified are much more telling:
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=294
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=167
Notice that the median and weighted average (assuming the under 17 is 15) MPG are about 18.
On a car board, people are always going to be more enthusuastic about their car and reluctant to turn on it (and their decision to buy). Specific problems identified are much more telling:
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=294
https://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&...lts&pollid=167
Notice that the median and weighted average (assuming the under 17 is 15) MPG are about 18.
My point is, overall and all faults considered, how high/low do you hold you vehicle. That's what matters. I am personally avg'g 16.3 mpg (it went down from 17 a month ago..), and I haven't flooded my engine. I read about it, even my dealer told me about it when I went for the first oil change. Every car has its quirks, your Evo needs to cool it's turbo oil down, you yourself told me that Ike doesn't need one (geez, I have good memory) and that a turbo timer would be beneficial. You didn't have one back then, but you didn't seem to consider that a 'problem' - its part of what your car is. The same goes (from my perspective) to the flooding issue. Its part of the package we bought FROM the dealer.
[****, gotta learn to use paragraphs...sorry]
There have been far worse issues: dead or busted engines, Ito with its tranny, and more that we probably haven't heard of. But at the end of the day, when I weight everything, I am still very proud of what I did. Although I won't refrain from telling everyone if I regret it later -I can be a real bitch when complaining.
There is a large number of happy campers, whether it’s an illusion or not...time will tell.
Edit: Almost forgot! I don't condone CATLESS vehicles. Darn, I have to go through a f'ing inspection every year for that. I PAY money for it, just to make sure the darn thing is not crapping the air. If you believe that air pollution is not a problem: you are a big moron (with all my kindness) Go to Mexico City, Santiago (Chile) and watch the sun rise. Or even better, if you get the chance to fly by any of the cities...during the day, look down. And say thanks for the EPA and other orgs. The matter is far beyond ethical values, its a matter of survival and quality of life: what are your kids going to breathe when their turn comes?.
Last edited by RX8-TX; 12-20-2003 at 03:13 PM.
12-20-2003, 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by RX8-TX
Absolutely true. But, there is also a very well defined line between 'little' problems and a painful costly failure. I believe you must have your own gripes with your Mitsu in some area. Same happens to us, and to any car brand owner. I don't think there is THE perfect car anywhere. I would seriously like a second car...but reality doesn't allow for it (looking for a house right now! YEAH!)
My point is, overall and all faults considered, how high/low do you hold you vehicle. That's what matters. I am personally avg'g 16.3 mpg (it went down from 17 a month ago..), and I haven't flooded my engine. I read about it, even my dealer told me about it when I went for the first oil change. Every car has its quirks, your Evo needs to cool it's turbo oil down, you yourself told me that Ike doesn't need one (geez, I have good memory) and that a turbo timer would be beneficial. You didn't have one back then, but you didn't seem to consider that a 'problem' - its part of what your car is. The same goes (from my perspective) to the flooding issue. Its part of the package we bought FROM the dealer.
[****, gotta learn to use paragraphs...sorry]
Absolutely true. But, there is also a very well defined line between 'little' problems and a painful costly failure. I believe you must have your own gripes with your Mitsu in some area. Same happens to us, and to any car brand owner. I don't think there is THE perfect car anywhere. I would seriously like a second car...but reality doesn't allow for it (looking for a house right now! YEAH!)
My point is, overall and all faults considered, how high/low do you hold you vehicle. That's what matters. I am personally avg'g 16.3 mpg (it went down from 17 a month ago..), and I haven't flooded my engine. I read about it, even my dealer told me about it when I went for the first oil change. Every car has its quirks, your Evo needs to cool it's turbo oil down, you yourself told me that Ike doesn't need one (geez, I have good memory) and that a turbo timer would be beneficial. You didn't have one back then, but you didn't seem to consider that a 'problem' - its part of what your car is. The same goes (from my perspective) to the flooding issue. Its part of the package we bought FROM the dealer.
[****, gotta learn to use paragraphs...sorry]
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.
As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).
Originally posted by RX8-TX
Edit: Almost forgot! I don't condone CATLESS vehicles. Darn, I have to go through a f'ing inspection every year for that. I PAY money for it, just to make sure the darn thing is not crapping the air. If you believe that air pollution is not a problem: you are a big moron (with all my kindness) Go to Mexico City, Santiago (Chile) and watch the sun rise. Or even better, if you get the chance to fly by any of the cities...during the day, look down. And say thanks for the EPA and other orgs. The matter is far beyond ethical values, its a matter of survival and quality of life: what are your kids going to breathe when their turn comes?.
Edit: Almost forgot! I don't condone CATLESS vehicles. Darn, I have to go through a f'ing inspection every year for that. I PAY money for it, just to make sure the darn thing is not crapping the air. If you believe that air pollution is not a problem: you are a big moron (with all my kindness) Go to Mexico City, Santiago (Chile) and watch the sun rise. Or even better, if you get the chance to fly by any of the cities...during the day, look down. And say thanks for the EPA and other orgs. The matter is far beyond ethical values, its a matter of survival and quality of life: what are your kids going to breathe when their turn comes?.
12-20-2003, 04:24 PM
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rev, you need to just accept the fact that the rx8 is just not the next generation rx7. It just seems like your every post concentrates on negative aspects of the 8 (at least in your opinion). Mazda was going for a completely different market, but I think they're going in the right direction by making cars that distinguish themselves from the other car makers. In fact, you should be happy that some of us are buying rx8's because they're financing the future rx7 project
Also, I'd like to agree with some of the others. In my view, going catless for regular everyday driving is unethical. I see no problem with going catless for track events, but to drive to the supermarket I just don't need those extra 5-10 hp or whatever it is.
Also, I'd like to agree with some of the others. In my view, going catless for regular everyday driving is unethical. I see no problem with going catless for track events, but to drive to the supermarket I just don't need those extra 5-10 hp or whatever it is.
12-20-2003, 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by revhappy
Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.
As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).
Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.
As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).
Heh, the WRX uses a MHI (AKA Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) turbo, Subaru either uses FHI or MHI turbos on their cars and many modern turbos no longer require a cool down. The WRX also has a nifty feature that the turbo is water cooled even after the car is off.
"The use of turbo timers to shut the engine off some preset time after the ignition key is removed was needed in the old days. Early turbocharger bearing housings were only cooled by the lubrication oil of a running engine passing by the turbine bearing. If the engine was shut of when the turbine was still very hot excessive heat wick into the turbo bearing and seal area, cooking the oil to black carbon, causing bearing/shaft failure and heavy oil consumption. The newer (for over 15 years now) style turbo housings are water cooled as well as oil cooled. The original EJ20 Subaru turbo motor took advantage of water cooled bearings from the start and have never had this problem due to a unique design feature we will now explain. It is the reason you do not need to purchase a turbo timer.
The Subaru WRX engines have their water catch tank high on the engine above the turbocharger. It is that little can where you check the water level. When the engine is shut off the water continues to circulate via a physical property of water called a thermal siphon. Simply put, hot water rises up to the catch tank, being drawn from the relatively cool cylinder head water jacket up through the turbo housing. This nifty little idea works every time you turn off your engine.
One still needs to take a cool down lap at the track and perhaps should not stop at the top of a mountain pass to enjoy the view if you have been on the boost all the way up, but for the other 99% of the time there is no need to let the engine idle for a minute before shutting off ignition. Even when the engine is off, the cooling water will circulate past the turbine bearing housing."
12-20-2003, 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
Heh, the WRX uses a MHI (AKA Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) turbo, Subaru either uses FHI or MHI turbos on their cars and many modern turbos no longer require a cool down. The WRX also has a nifty feature that the turbo is water cooled even after the car is off.
Heh, the WRX uses a MHI (AKA Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) turbo, Subaru either uses FHI or MHI turbos on their cars and many modern turbos no longer require a cool down. The WRX also has a nifty feature that the turbo is water cooled even after the car is off.
12-20-2003, 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by revhappy
Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.
As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).
Amen brother!
Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.
As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).
Amen brother!